Icecast - Aug 2004 - bit/bytes

for most stations that have this kind of listener capacity, they are 
getting bandwidth from AOL/Nullsoft.  Nullsoft had (may still have) a 
policy of offering free bandwith to stations they hand-picked.  They 
were tapping into the rather huge amount of bandwidth that AOL had, and 
thus could offer the kind of listener capacity you are seeing.  
Alternatively, many stations also operate on bandwith donations (people 
offering relays because they like the station)....I'd say most (if not 
all) stations that have high listener capacity are operating using one 
of these two mechanisms.

oddsock
> Yeah, I knew they had several servers for the same content, but the
> financial cost of such internet connections still remain the same...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> MAX
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-icecast@xiph.org [mailto:owner-icecast@xiph.org] On 
Behalf Of
> Joe Jones
> Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 1:33 PM
> To: icecast@xiph.org
> Subject: RE: [icecast] bit/bytes
> 
> If you look at the PLS file for SomaFM's "Goove Salad"
channel you'll
see :
> 
> ------------------------------------------------
> [playlist]
> numberofentries=3
> File1=http://64.236.34.97:80/stream/1018
> Title1=SomaFM Presents: Groove Salad 128k (Feed #1)
> Length1=-1
> File2=http://205.188.245.133:8076
> Title2=SomaFM Presents: Groove Salad 128k (Feed #2)
> Length2=-1
> File3=http://server2.somafm.com:8032
> Title3=SomaFM Presents: Groove Salad 128k (Feed #3)
> Length3=-1
> Version=2
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> So for this channel they have 3 possible feeds to spread the load 
over.  You
> 
> could be clever and set up some sort of 'round-robbin' system to 
spread the 
> load evenly...but I imagine that in this case it's deteremined by the 
number
> 
> of connections per server - Feed #1 fills up to max of say 500 
users...so 
> next user is forwarded to Feed #2.
> 
> 
> Joe.
> 
> 
> >From: "MacSym" <macsym69@yahoo.fr>
> >Reply-To: icecast@xiph.org
> >To: <icecast@xiph.org>
> >Subject: RE: [icecast] bit/bytes
> >Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:16:55 +0100
> >
> >Hi Goeff,
> >
> >Thanks for your precisions. You wrote: "Internet connections are
also
> >expressed in bits, or kilobits, not Kilobytes"; then I guess a 
connection 
> >of
> >1Mb is also 1 megaBITS and NOT megaBYTES. There is something I
don't
> >understand; how are affording small radios that have up to 1000 
concurrent
> >listeners a 128Mb connection? Is there any magical solution I am not 
aware
> >of?
> >
> >Thanks for clarifying this topic!
> >
> >MAX
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-icecast@xiph.org [mailto:owner-icecast@xiph.org] On 
Behalf Of
> >Geoff Shang
> >Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 12:59 PM
> >To: icecast@xiph.org
> >Subject: Re: [icecast] bit/bytes
> >
> >On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, MacSym wrote:
> >
> > > A 128K stream is a 128 KiloBITS (NOT kiloBYTES) per second 
stream; am I
> > > right?
> >
> >Right.
> >
> > > Is a 512k internet connection a 512 kiloBITS or 512 kiloBYTES
> > > connection?
> >
> >Internet connections are also expressed in bits, or kilobits, not
> >kilobytes.  In this sense, calling it a 512k connection is actually 
wrong,
> >as this implies kilobytes, not kilobits.  But everyone seems to do 
it.
> >
> > > 128 KiloBITS = 16 KiloBYTES (8 bits = 1 byte). I am wondering if 
a 512k
> > > connection (upload and download) could THEORITICALLY handle 4 
(512/128) 
> >or
> > > 32 (512/16) 128k streams?
> >
> >Unfortunately it's 4, not 32.
> >
> > > I am confused because I often read that to calculate the 
potential 
> >number
> >of
> > > listeners with a given connection; you just divide the connection
speed 
> >by
> > > the stream bit rate... is it true? In this case, how is doing 
SomaFM to
> > > handle 4000 listeners at 128k?? Do they have a 512 MB 
connection???
> >
> >I guess they must.
> >
> >Geoff.
> >
> >
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Hi Oddsock,

Like Clement, I am sure Nullsoft is still "offering" AOL's
bandwidth since I
think Nullsoft is not part of AOL anymore. About the new broadcasting
methods, is the multicast technology already available? I have heard only
few providers are equipped with multicast enabled routers. What about p2p
streaming, is it really reliable? When I see Peercast's statistics, only few
stations have more than 10 listeners currently connected... Do you think p2p
streaming could support an "unlimited" number of listeners or is it
only a
utopia? Anyway, I am not sure many listeners would be attracted by p2p
streaming until a reliable Applet is available. I mean, I know only few
users that are ready to install additional software to listen to online
music.
Does anyone know about such an open source Applet or ActiveX? I know
www.chaincast.com is selling such a solution but it's only targeted to
windows users because it's an ActiveX that streams WMA...

Cheers,

MAX

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-icecast@xiph.org [mailto:owner-icecast@xiph.org] On Behalf Of
Clement Cavadore
Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 5:38 PM
To: icecast@xiph.org
Subject: RE: [icecast] bit/bytes

Le dim 29/02/2004 à 17:27, oddsock a écrit :
> for most stations that have this kind of listener capacity, they are 
> getting bandwidth from AOL/Nullsoft.  Nullsoft had (may still have) a 
> policy of offering free bandwith to stations they hand-picked.  They 
> were tapping into the rather huge amount of bandwidth that AOL had, and 
> thus could offer the kind of listener capacity you are seeing.  
I don't think they still have this policy... since they don't reply to
my E-mails... maybe one day, who knows.... :)
> Alternatively, many stations also operate on bandwith donations (people 
> offering relays because they like the station)....I'd say most (if not 
> all) stations that have high listener capacity are operating using one 
> of these two mechanisms.
I dont't think there are many stations who are able to pay for so much
bandwidth... in our case (Frequence3, see below), we rely on bw
donation... but it's quite hard to get some, because of the prices, so
we should go and try to use new broadcasting methods (multicast, or
oggvorbis)...

<p>Greets,


-- 
Clément Cavadore
www.frequence3.org
Webradio Francophone

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Le dim 29/02/2004 à 17:27, oddsock a écrit :
> for most stations that have this kind of listener capacity, they are 
> getting bandwidth from AOL/Nullsoft.  Nullsoft had (may still have) a 
> policy of offering free bandwith to stations they hand-picked.  They 
> were tapping into the rather huge amount of bandwidth that AOL had, and 
> thus could offer the kind of listener capacity you are seeing.  
I don't think they still have this policy... since they don't reply to
my E-mails... maybe one day, who knows.... :)
> Alternatively, many stations also operate on bandwith donations (people 
> offering relays because they like the station)....I'd say most (if not 
> all) stations that have high listener capacity are operating using one 
> of these two mechanisms.
I dont't think there are many stations who are able to pay for so much
bandwidth... in our case (Frequence3, see below), we rely on bw
donation... but it's quite hard to get some, because of the prices, so
we should go and try to use new broadcasting methods (multicast, or
oggvorbis)...

<p>Greets,


-- 
Clément Cavadore
www.frequence3.org
Webradio Francophone

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This is something we [at ResonanceFM] have to
constantly deal with. I'm currently throttling our FTP
rates because it keeps knocking out our stream :-(
> > Alternatively, many stations also operate on
> bandwith donations (people 
> > offering relays because they like the
> station)....I'd say most (if not 
> > all) stations that have high listener capacity are
> operating using one 
> > of these two mechanisms.
We were lucky in that respect, a fan happened to work
for Interroute.com and could relay our stream over a
high bandwidth network.
> we should go and try to use new broadcasting methods
> (multicast, or
> oggvorbis)...
Has anyone had any experiance at multicasting ?

Chris W

====
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