Johnny Hughes wrote:> On 04/04/2016 08:39 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote:>> I read that Redhat was offering their Linux free, >> and downloaded the ISO, though I haven't run it. >> >> What do CentOS users think of Redhat's offer?> You need read the usage license.I glanced through this before downloading the ISO. But I can't locate it now on the RedHat website(s).> That subscription can only be used in development and not in a > production environment. > > If that works for want you want to use it for then it is an awesome move > by Red Hat.I run CentOS on two home servers (in different countries), and have no ambition to make money from them, which I take is the meaning of "production" in this context. Surely there must be many CentOS users like me? I found puzzling the suggestion (not by Johnny Hughes) that RedHat's offer is of little value. -- Timothy Murphy gayleard /at/ eircom.net School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin
On 04/05/2016 11:06 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote:> Johnny Hughes wrote: > >> On 04/04/2016 08:39 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote: >>> I read that Redhat was offering their Linux free, >>> and downloaded the ISO, though I haven't run it. >>> >>> What do CentOS users think of Redhat's offer? >> You need read the usage license. > I glanced through this before downloading the ISO. > But I can't locate it now on the RedHat website(s). > >> That subscription can only be used in development and not in a >> production environment. >> >> If that works for want you want to use it for then it is an awesome move >> by Red Hat. > I run CentOS on two home servers (in different countries), > and have no ambition to make money from them, > which I take is the meaning of "production" in this context.No, it is not. Please check out the definition of 'production' software in relation to staging,testing and development. " Techopedia explains Production Server A production server is the core server on which any website or Web application is being hosted and accessed by users. It is part of the entire software and application development environment. Typically, the production server environment, hardware and software components are exactly similar to a staging server. Though, rather being confined to in-house usage as in a staging server, the production server is open for end-user access. The software or application must be tested and debugged on a staging server before being deployed on the production server."> Surely there must be many CentOS users like me? > I found puzzling the suggestion (not by Johnny Hughes) > that RedHat's offer is of little value. >Centos != Redhat
Am 05.04.2016 um 11:06 schrieb Timothy Murphy <gayleard at eircom.net>:> I run CentOS on two home servers (in different countries), > and have no ambition to make money from them, > which I take is the meaning of "production" in this context. > > Surely there must be many CentOS users like me? > I found puzzling the suggestion (not by Johnny Hughes) > that RedHat's offer is of little value.The value of the offer depends of your assets and values. -- LF
On Tue, April 5, 2016 4:06 am, Timothy Murphy wrote:> Johnny Hughes wrote: > >> On 04/04/2016 08:39 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote: > >>> I read that Redhat was offering their Linux free, >>> and downloaded the ISO, though I haven't run it. >>> >>> What do CentOS users think of Redhat's offer? > >> You need read the usage license. > > I glanced through this before downloading the ISO. > But I can't locate it now on the RedHat website(s). > >> That subscription can only be used in development and not in a >> production environment. >> >> If that works for want you want to use it for then it is an awesome move >> by Red Hat. > > I run CentOS on two home servers (in different countries), > and have no ambition to make money from them, > which I take is the meaning of "production" in this context.Production means you are benefiting from running server in any form. Making money is only one form of benefit. The rest are hard to list without knowing what exactly you do but the general approach in court would be: you will not be running server and not using it for something. Apart from testing that some software builds on that you can not use that server for anything else. And it is not a coincidence that they list explicitly what you can use it for. Because using it for anything else will be illegal (which will be established in court, but I have to mention I am not a lawyer). I did not read RedHat's license about what we discuss here, but I have carefully been once through Intel compilers non-for-profit license. Scientists who I work for are in "non-for-profit" organizations. What they do, however, does not fall under the "non-for-profit" Intel license. Because that license prohibits to profit in any form (not on by making monetary profit from selling things). Other forms of profit would be: making better code, and potentially getting better job than your colleague to name one. In general, benefiting can be anything, even looking at nice RedHat logo and being pleased with yourself that you were able to install the system. This is the difference of free license (where you are explicitly permitted to do anything except...) from non-free (where you are explicitly permitted to do this, and nothing else). But don't listen to me, ask the layer. Valeri> > Surely there must be many CentOS users like me? > I found puzzling the suggestion (not by Johnny Hughes) > that RedHat's offer is of little value. > > -- > Timothy Murphy > gayleard /at/ eircom.net > School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin > > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
On Tue, 2016-04-05 at 07:55 -0500, Valeri Galtsev wrote:> Production means you are benefiting from running server in any form. > Making money is only one form of benefit. The rest are hard to list > without knowing what exactly you do but the general approach in court > would be: you will not be running server and not using it for something. > Apart from testing that some software builds on that you can not use that > server for anything else. And it is not a coincidence that they list > explicitly what you can use it for. Because using it for anything else > will be illegal (which will be established in court, but I have to mention > I am not a lawyer).Neither am I a lawyer. Unless the term 'production' is clearly defined in the license, then the popular and widely used meaning of 'production' would constitute the criteria. It is not for users to define what Red Hat Inc's license implies - that is solely a matter for Read Hat to make ***before*** Red Hat donates its software or unlocks its software for use. Legally, Red Hat could not retrospectively impose any definition of 'production' or introduce licensing or usage terms. It will not be 'illegal' because it is not a criminal offence unless a law exists forbidding that action. I think that 'exceeding' the terms of the license would not make a criminal offence. Criminal = public law Non-criminal = private law The best Red Hat could do is to sue users for Red Hat's 'lost' (just think of the world-wide damaging publicity) and that will mean Red Hat would have to prove to the civil standard of evidence the monetary amount of that loss. As the alleged 'loss' may occur outside the US of A, Red Hat would have to sue in the legal jurisdiction where that matter occurred. In England, the Small Claims Courts determines cases up to GBP 10,000 ***and*** the costs of lawyers, I verily believe, are neither awarded nor recoverable. -- Regards, Paul. England, EU. England's place is in the European Union.
On Tue, 2016-04-05 at 11:17 +0200, Maikel van Leeuwen wrote:> Techopedia explains Production Server > > A production server is the core server on which any website or Web > application is being hosted and accessed by users. It is part of the > entire software and application development environment. Typically, the > production server environment, hardware and software components are > exactly similar to a staging server. > > Though, rather being confined to in-house usage as in a staging server, > the production server is open for end-user access. The software or > application must be tested and debugged on a staging server before being > deployed on the production server."That is not applicable legally. What matters for the 'free' Red Hat software is ***ONLY*** Red Hat's stated terms and conditions - definitely not what what someone else has put on a web site. -- Regards, Paul. England, EU. England's place is in the European Union.