Pkg exim4 users - Nov 2007 - No copy of bounce message to postmaster

Hi,

I have installed exim4 on a ubuntu 7.10 distribution.
Since I have some trouble with my internet connection, some messages remain 
frozen but I get no warning as a postmaster. I suppose this is normal (it 
would be a nuisance on a "real" server but this machine is for
domestic
purpose whith low traffic).

What should I change to my config to be warned when messages have not be 
delivered after some time ? (I suppose I can write a cron job to check my 
mailq but I''d rather tweak the exim config if it is not to difficult)

Reading the docs (but I''m a real newbie to this) I tried a way round by
suppressing the  default retry period  and adding

errors_copy = postmaster

in my /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template so that non delivered messages exceed 
their retry timeout and the message is bounced. Of course, the internet 
connection being down, the bounce message is not sent to the sender of the 
message and is ignored. But I thought I would receive a copy of this bounce 
as postmaster and I don''t.

Please can anyone point me to what I am missing ?

Thanks and sorry for what is probably a basic question.
-- 

Eddy

On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 09:04:43PM +0100, verslenet-usenet at yahoo.fr
wrote:
> I have installed exim4 on a ubuntu 7.10 distribution.
And you are asking this question on a Debian support forum.

As the Debian maintainers are not in a situation to know which changes
Ubuntu has done to the exim4 packages, you might be better off asking
your question in an Ubuntu support forum.

I do sincerely hope that others here might be able to help. I am not.

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         | "I don''t trust Computers. They | Mailadresse
im Header
Mannheim, Germany  |  lose things."    Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 3221 2323190

Le Saturday 01 December 2007 22:47:39 Marc Haber, vous avez
?crit?:
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 09:04:43PM +0100, verslenet-usenet at yahoo.fr
wrote:
> > I have installed exim4 on a ubuntu 7.10 distribution.
>
> And you are asking this question on a Debian support forum.
Yes. What could possibly be wrong with that ?
Obviously I read the doc online on the exim website. This didn''t help
(maybe
because of my incompetence on the subject).  I then searched the Ubuntu 
forums. Finally the doc installed with my package contains the following file
/usr/share/doc/exim4-base/README.Debian.html
that directed me here.

I''m sorry but I can''t see why my posting on this forum should
be inappropiate.
>
> As the Debian maintainers are not in a situation to know which changes
> Ubuntu has done to the exim4 packages, you might be better off asking
> your question in an Ubuntu support forum.
Frankly, my guess is that Ubuntu hasn''t done much change (none at all I
would
bet) and surely much less then the debian team has done.

My question here is also an implicit recognition that the level of expertise 
is higher here than on any Ubuntu forum.
>
> I do sincerely hope that others here might be able to help. I am not.
Well I will rephrase my question because I think highly probable that my 
mention of Ubuntu is irrelevant to this specific problem. It was only given 
on an attempt to be complete.

"A user of a Debian exim4 package has added the following line
errors_copy = postmaster
in its /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template but, when messages are bounced because 
the access to the internet is down (local messages can still be delivered), 
the bounce is silently suppressed and no copy is sent to postmaster.

Is there any suggestion you could give that user to help him change this 
behaviour of his server ?"

Obviously I am not asking you to be accountable for what changes might have 
been done by others, I am relying on your experience of the Debian exim 
package.  I am sure there are people here who could give me relevant clues.
>
> Greetings
> Marc
Thank you Marc for your reply. 
I appreciate the fact that you honestly tried to redirect me to a more 
appropriate place. I understand your point of view yet I still hope that some 
readers of this list maybe able to help.

Greetings to all.

-- 
Eddy

On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 01:55:18PM +0100, verslenet-usenet at yahoo.fr
wrote:
> Le Saturday 01 December 2007 22:47:39 Marc Haber, vous avez ?crit?:
> > On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 09:04:43PM +0100, verslenet-usenet at yahoo.fr
wrote:
> > > I have installed exim4 on a ubuntu 7.10 distribution.
> >
> > And you are asking this question on a Debian support forum.
> 
> Yes. What could possibly be wrong with that ?
It is wrong in the way that Ubuntu - as usual - takes the praise for
generating an easy-to-use Linux distribution (by taking Debian which
still has the unjust reputation of being hard to use) and then -
again, as usual - dumps the support burden back on Debian.
> "A user of a Debian exim4 package has added the following line
> errors_copy = postmaster
> in its /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template but, when messages are bounced
because
> the access to the internet is down (local messages can still be delivered),
> the bounce is silently suppressed and no copy is sent to postmaster.
What do the exim logs say when such a message is bounced?

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         | "I don''t trust Computers. They | Mailadresse
im Header
Mannheim, Germany  |  lose things."    Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 3221 2323190

Le Sunday 02 December 2007 15:22:52 Marc Haber, vous avez
?crit?:
> On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 01:55:18PM +0100, verslenet-usenet at yahoo.fr
wrote:
> > Le Saturday 01 December 2007 22:47:39 Marc Haber, vous avez ?crit?:
> > > On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 09:04:43PM +0100, verslenet-usenet at
yahoo.fr
wrote:
> > > > I have installed exim4 on a ubuntu 7.10 distribution.
> > >
> > > And you are asking this question on a Debian support forum.
> >
> > Yes. What could possibly be wrong with that ?
>
> It is wrong in the way that Ubuntu - as usual - takes the praise for
> generating an easy-to-use Linux distribution (by taking Debian which
> still has the unjust reputation of being hard to use) and then -
> again, as usual - dumps the support burden back on Debian.
But if I had installed Debian directly I would have had the same problem.
I am using a debian-exim package. The fact that I took it from Ubuntu 
repositories instead of Debian ones is irrelevant as long as it has not been 
tempered with drastically by the Ubuntu team. 

As for the support part of your sentence, I am truly sorry that you see it as 
a burden. You are not forced to do it, are you?

As a linux user, I consider that no one owes me anything : neither Ubuntu nor 
Debian nor Linus himself. When I have a problem I try to solve it and if need 
be ask for help but people always have the choice of ignoring me.
Ubuntu does not dump the support on Debian : Ubuntu has no obligation of 
supporting me, just like Debian has none.

By the way, iIt is also because you freely chose to reply to my message that I 
sincerely thank you for your help.
> > "A user of a Debian exim4 package has added the following line
> > errors_copy = postmaster
> > in its /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template but, when messages are bounced
> > because the access to the internet is down (local messages can still
be
> > delivered), the bounce is silently suppressed and no copy is sent to
> > postmaster.
Ok, no need to search anymore.
I would tell that user to RTFM, particularly /usr/share/doc/exim4/spec.txt.gz
and try to replace 
errors_copy = postmaster
by
errors_copy = * postmaster

Somehow I had missed this.
>
> What do the exim logs say when such a message is bounced?
Well they said nothing regarding a message to postmaster. That''s what I
meant
when I said the "bounce is silently suppressed". 
> Greetings
> Marc
Thanks again for your time.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

-- 
Eddy

On Sun, Dec 02, 2007 at 07:38:36PM +0100, verslenet-usenet at yahoo.fr
wrote:
> Le Sunday 02 December 2007 15:22:52 Marc Haber, vous avez ?crit?:
> > It is wrong in the way that Ubuntu - as usual - takes the praise for
> > generating an easy-to-use Linux distribution (by taking Debian which
> > still has the unjust reputation of being hard to use) and then -
> > again, as usual - dumps the support burden back on Debian.
> 
> But if I had installed Debian directly I would have had the same problem.
> I am using a debian-exim package. The fact that I took it from Ubuntu 
> repositories instead of Debian ones is irrelevant as long as it has not
been
> tempered with drastically by the Ubuntu team. 
And how am I supposed to know which changes Ubuntu (or any other
derived distribution) has done?
> As a linux user, I consider that no one owes me anything : neither
> Ubuntu nor Debian nor Linus himself. When I have a problem I try to
> solve it and if need be ask for help but people always have the choice
> of ignoring me. Ubuntu does not dump the support on Debian : Ubuntu
> has no obligation of supporting me, just like Debian has none.
Part of the issue is that a sizeable part of the Ubuntu community is
made of recent Windows converts who are used to yell at a hot line if
something doesn''t work.
> > > "A user of a Debian exim4 package has added the following
line
> > > errors_copy = postmaster
> > > in its /etc/exim4/exim4.conf.template but, when messages are
bounced
> > > because the access to the internet is down (local messages can
still be
> > > delivered), the bounce is silently suppressed and no copy is sent
to
> > > postmaster.
> 
> Ok, no need to search anymore.
> I would tell that user to RTFM, particularly
/usr/share/doc/exim4/spec.txt.gz
> and try to replace 
> errors_copy = postmaster
> by
> errors_copy = * postmaster
> 
> Somehow I had missed this.
Ouch. I missed that as well.
> > What do the exim logs say when such a message is bounced?
> 
> Well they said nothing regarding a message to postmaster. That''s
what
> I meant when I said the "bounce is silently suppressed". 
This is what made me wince: Exim is not supposed to silently suppress
bounces, it is at least supposed to log the delivery failure.

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         | "I don''t trust Computers. They | Mailadresse
im Header
Mannheim, Germany  |  lose things."    Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 3221 2323190