Ivan Kush via llvm-dev
2020-Jun-21 19:41 UTC
[llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in source code?
<div> </div><div>Yes, broad. But what guys say: "You LLVM developers are all racists, because you use 'master' word"</div><div>Or broader: "You all developers are all racists, because you use 'master' word". We are not racists, but other guys think so.</div><div>So let's begin consistent and take into account all nations and languages. Not only Americans.</div><div> </div><div>Работа/Job contains a root Раб/Slave.</div><div><a href="https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0">https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0</a></div><div> </div><div>If we want completely eradicate a word Slave we should take into account all nations and languages!</div><div>You say that removing 'master' you won't mention Slave, but in Russia leaving a Job could mean Slave</div><div>-- <br />Best wishes,</div><div>Ivan Kush</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>21.06.2020, 22:01, "Chris Lattner" <clattner@nondot.org>:</div><blockquote><div style="word-wrap:break-word"> <div> <blockquote><div>On Jun 21, 2020, at 4:49 AM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev <<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:</div> <div><div>Here we've began discussion about "master"</div><div><a href="https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html">https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html</a></div><div> </div><div>Lets remove Job word completely</div><div><pre>But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language, for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as "Работник", "Рабочий". Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа". As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily check, literally translates to "slave". To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious origin. </pre></div><div> </div><div>We have many uses of Job word</div><div><a href="https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job">https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job</a></div></div></blockquote></div><div>Hi Ivan,</div><div> </div><div>Thank you for raising this issue. I haven’t heard much industry consensus that the word ‘job’ is a problem - are there other communities considering such a change?</div><div> </div><div>I’m concerned that a policy around “any English word that can be translated to an unfortunate term in another language” could be too broad to be useful. The discussion around “master" isn’t related to translations.</div><div> </div><div>-Chris</div></div></blockquote>
Eric Christopher via llvm-dev
2020-Jun-21 19:54 UTC
[llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in source code?
Hi Ivan, What would you suggest we migrate Job to? Have you raised this with other inclusive language organizations? As the first I've heard of this I'd love to hear more. Thanks! -eric On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 12:42 PM Ivan Kush via llvm-dev < llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:> > Yes, broad. But what guys say: "You LLVM developers are all racists, > because you use 'master' word" > Or broader: "You all developers are all racists, because you use 'master' > word". We are not racists, but other guys think so. > So let's begin consistent and take into account all nations and languages. > Not only Americans. > > Работа/Job contains a root Раб/Slave. > https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0 > > If we want completely eradicate a word Slave we should take into account > all nations and languages! > You say that removing 'master' you won't mention Slave, but in Russia > leaving a Job could mean Slave > -- > Best wishes, > Ivan Kush > > > > 21.06.2020, 22:01, "Chris Lattner" <clattner at nondot.org>: > > > > > On Jun 21, 2020, at 4:49 AM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev < > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote: > > Here we've began discussion about "master" > https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html > > Lets remove Job word completely > > But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language, > for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as "Работник", "Рабочий". > Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа". > As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily > check, literally translates to "slave". > To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious origin. > > > We have many uses of Job word > https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job > > Hi Ivan, > > Thank you for raising this issue. I haven’t heard much industry consensus > that the word ‘job’ is a problem - are there other communities considering > such a change? > > I’m concerned that a policy around “any English word that can be > translated to an unfortunate term in another language” could be too broad > to be useful. The discussion around “master" isn’t related to translations. > > -Chris > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20200621/6f391e45/attachment.html>
Mehdi AMINI via llvm-dev
2020-Jun-21 20:53 UTC
[llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in source code?
On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 12:42 PM Ivan Kush via llvm-dev < llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:> > Yes, broad. But what guys say: "You LLVM developers are all racists, > because you use 'master' word" > Or broader: "You all developers are all racists, because you use 'master' > word". We are not racists, but other guys think so. >Since I started the thread on our "master" branch name, I'd like to clarify that I didn't intend it the way you're putting it: I don't consider that developers who are using "master" for their branch, and will continue to do so, are just "racist" because of that. However I can understand that using such metaphors or analogies in our language, however accurate they are, can make other people uncomfortable. So, another way to see it is not about us stopping using this word because other people think it makes us racists, instead it is about not *forcing other* potential contributors and fellow developers to use such terms to be able to contribute to the project. I posted this link <https://dev.to/afrodevgirl/replacing-master-with-main-in-github-2fjf> originally where the author wrote:> using the term master to define the default source of truth in my reposhas always caused me pain They don't accuse you or me of being racist, they don't talk about anyone else other than themselves here. So I choose to listen to them, to empathize, and recognize that at minima: 1) there are actually better and more accurate terms for the concept described ("main", "default", ...) 2) it is "relatively cheap" to change. On the other hand, I don't see much reason to not do it (do you?). So let's begin consistent and take into account all nations and languages.> Not only Americans. >As a European, I'm sensitive to the "american centric" view that is taken of many of these topics by the way. Also the use of English as the common language makes it maybe too easy to under-estimate the cultural differences.>> Работа/Job contains a root Раб/Slave. > https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0 > > If we want completely eradicate a word Slave we should take into account > all nations and languages! > You say that removing 'master' you won't mention Slave, but in Russia > leaving a Job could mean Slave >I'm not sure using the etymology of the translation of an English word to reflect on the English word is entirely straightforward to me. More importantly, in general I would personally start by looking into the alternatives here: what is the word used for in the project and do we have a more neutral/descriptive term to describe a concept. I'd advise you to follow Eric's advice on the topic. Best, -- Mehdi> -- > Best wishes, > Ivan Kush > > > > 21.06.2020, 22:01, "Chris Lattner" <clattner at nondot.org>: > > > > > On Jun 21, 2020, at 4:49 AM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev < > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote: > > Here we've began discussion about "master" > https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html > > Lets remove Job word completely > > But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language, > for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as "Работник", "Рабочий". > Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа". > As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily > check, literally translates to "slave". > To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious origin. > > > We have many uses of Job word > https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job > > Hi Ivan, > > Thank you for raising this issue. I haven’t heard much industry consensus > that the word ‘job’ is a problem - are there other communities considering > such a change? > > I’m concerned that a policy around “any English word that can be > translated to an unfortunate term in another language” could be too broad > to be useful. The discussion around “master" isn’t related to translations. > > -Chris > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20200621/95c300fb/attachment.html>
Chris Lattner via llvm-dev
2020-Jun-21 21:51 UTC
[llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in source code?
Me too. Ivan, I don’t agree with how you’re characterizing the discussion about the “master” branch. In any case, unless there is evidence of precedent here, I don’t find the ‘job’ discussion likely to go anywhere. -Chris> On Jun 21, 2020, at 12:54 PM, Eric Christopher <echristo at gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Ivan, > > What would you suggest we migrate Job to? Have you raised this with other inclusive language organizations? As the first I've heard of this I'd love to hear more. > > Thanks! > > -eric > > On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 12:42 PM Ivan Kush via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>> wrote: > > Yes, broad. But what guys say: "You LLVM developers are all racists, because you use 'master' word" > Or broader: "You all developers are all racists, because you use 'master' word". We are not racists, but other guys think so. > So let's begin consistent and take into account all nations and languages. Not only Americans. > > Работа/Job contains a root Раб/Slave. > https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0 <https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0> > > If we want completely eradicate a word Slave we should take into account all nations and languages! > You say that removing 'master' you won't mention Slave, but in Russia leaving a Job could mean Slave > -- > Best wishes, > Ivan Kush > > > > 21.06.2020, 22:01, "Chris Lattner" <clattner at nondot.org <mailto:clattner at nondot.org>>: > > > On Jun 21, 2020, at 4:49 AM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>> wrote: > > Here we've began discussion about "master" > https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html <https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html> > > Lets remove Job word completely > But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language, > for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as "Работник", "Рабочий". > Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа". > As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily > check, literally translates to "slave". > To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious origin. > > We have many uses of Job word > https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job <https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job> > Hi Ivan, > > Thank you for raising this issue. I haven’t heard much industry consensus that the word ‘job’ is a problem - are there other communities considering such a change? > > I’m concerned that a policy around “any English word that can be translated to an unfortunate term in another language” could be too broad to be useful. The discussion around “master" isn’t related to translations. > > -Chris > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev <https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev>-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20200621/1bd983a2/attachment.html>
antlists via llvm-dev
2020-Jun-22 09:59 UTC
[llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in source code?
On 21/06/2020 21:53, Mehdi AMINI via llvm-dev wrote:> > So let's begin consistent and take into account all nations and > languages. Not only Americans. > > > As a European, I'm sensitive to the "american centric" view that is > taken of many of these topics by the way. Also the use of English as the > common language makes it maybe too easy to under-estimate the cultural > differences.Speaking English, not American, I'm *extremely* sensitive to those differences. And at this rate, we'll run out of words... You know the story of the Vauxhall/Ope/Chevrolet Nova? Or the Rolls Royce Silver Mist? It's far too easy for an innocuous word in one language to mean something unfortunate in another. And IMHO this is simply the Politically Correct And Morally Superior brigade running around trying to be seen to be doing something, that's not going to improve matters and may well make them worse. When we've had this problem, what with ISIS and Islam and all that, it's been very noticeable that we have had White Christians saying "we nustn't do this that and the other in case we offend them", and we've had their leaders saying "for ... sake stop telling us what we do and don't want, you're making matters worse". There's a massive thread on LWN, and there's a lot of kickback from people like me who think this is stupid. The blacks don't care about the word "master", the Slavs don't care about the word "slave" (note that those last two are etymologically the same word!!!), why the f... are White Americans making such a fuss, other than to seize the moral high ground? This is an *American* issue, driven by an *American* problem, and I think all this is just headless chickens trying to "do something" and causing chaos in the process. At the end of the day, NOBODY seems to be listening to the people who are actually allegedly "affected" by the issue. Cheers, Wol
Fedor Sergeev via llvm-dev
2020-Jun-24 22:19 UTC
[llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in source code?
On 6/21/20 10:41 PM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev wrote:> Yes, broad. But what guys say: "You LLVM developers are all racists, > because you use 'master' word" > Or broader: "You all developers are all racists, because you use > 'master' word". We are not racists, but other guys think so. > So let's begin consistent and take into account all nations and > languages. Not only Americans. > Работа/Job contains a root Раб/Slave. > https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0 > If we want completely eradicate a word Slave we should take into > account all nations and languages! > You say that removing 'master' you won't mention Slave, but in Russia > leaving a Job could mean SlaveBeing a native Russian and being kinda proud of my feeling of the language, I find this statement (Job could mean Slave) rather strange... The word "Работа" in Russian does not have any despising semantical connotation derived from slavery. It is easy to figure out just by reading the part of the page you quoted named "Семантические свойства" (semantical characteristics). It is all about work, job, labor, creativity (and a science term). No single mention of slavery or forced labor. "Root" is just the origin where the word started from, perhaps centuries ago. It is quite common that words do change their meaning through these centuries. If you take a look at all the words that have "-раб-" root in it you will find: раз-раб-отчик == developer раз-раб-отка == development об-раб-отка == handling etc I would prefer to be allowed to do my job and be proud of it, and to call my fellow developers - developers. thank you very much, Fedor.> -- > Best wishes, > Ivan Kush > 21.06.2020, 22:01, "Chris Lattner" <clattner at nondot.org>: > > On Jun 21, 2020, at 4:49 AM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev > <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>> wrote: > Here we've began discussion about "master" > https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html > Lets remove Job word completely > > But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language, > for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as "Работник", "Рабочий". > Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа". > As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily > check, literally translates to "slave". > To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious origin. > > We have many uses of Job word > https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job > > Hi Ivan, > Thank you for raising this issue. I haven’t heard much industry > consensus that the word ‘job’ is a problem - are there other > communities considering such a change? > I’m concerned that a policy around “any English word that can be > translated to an unfortunate term in another language” could be > too broad to be useful. The discussion around “master" isn’t > related to translations. > -Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20200625/2b2ea722/attachment.html>
Eric Christopher via llvm-dev
2020-Jun-24 22:58 UTC
[llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in source code?
Thanks for the additional perspective Fedor, very appreciated. -eric On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 3:20 PM Fedor Sergeev via llvm-dev < llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:> On 6/21/20 10:41 PM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev wrote: > > > Yes, broad. But what guys say: "You LLVM developers are all racists, > because you use 'master' word" > Or broader: "You all developers are all racists, because you use 'master' > word". We are not racists, but other guys think so. > So let's begin consistent and take into account all nations and languages. > Not only Americans. > > Работа/Job contains a root Раб/Slave. > https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0 > > If we want completely eradicate a word Slave we should take into account > all nations and languages! > You say that removing 'master' you won't mention Slave, but in Russia > leaving a Job could mean Slave > > Being a native Russian and being kinda proud of my feeling of the > language, I find this statement (Job could mean Slave) rather strange... > > The word "Работа" in Russian does not have any despising semantical > connotation derived from slavery. > It is easy to figure out just by reading the part of the page you quoted > named "Семантические свойства" (semantical characteristics). > It is all about work, job, labor, creativity (and a science term). No > single mention of slavery or forced labor. > > "Root" is just the origin where the word started from, perhaps centuries > ago. It is quite common that words do change their meaning > through these centuries. > > If you take a look at all the words that have "-раб-" root in it you will > find: > раз-раб-отчик == developer > раз-раб-отка == development > об-раб-отка == handling > etc > > I would prefer to be allowed to do my job and be proud of it, and to call > my fellow developers - developers. > > thank you very much, > Fedor. > > -- > Best wishes, > Ivan Kush > > > > 21.06.2020, 22:01, "Chris Lattner" <clattner at nondot.org> > <clattner at nondot.org>: > > > > > On Jun 21, 2020, at 4:49 AM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev < > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote: > > Here we've began discussion about "master" > https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html > > Lets remove Job word completely > > But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language, > for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as "Работник", "Рабочий". > Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа". > As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily > check, literally translates to "slave". > To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious origin. > > > We have many uses of Job word > https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job > > Hi Ivan, > > Thank you for raising this issue. I haven’t heard much industry consensus > that the word ‘job’ is a problem - are there other communities considering > such a change? > > I’m concerned that a policy around “any English word that can be > translated to an unfortunate term in another language” could be too broad > to be useful. The discussion around “master" isn’t related to translations. > > -Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing listllvm-dev at lists.llvm.orghttps://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20200624/47870597/attachment.html>
Eugene Zhulenev via llvm-dev
2020-Jun-25 00:04 UTC
[llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in source code?
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 3:20 PM Fedor Sergeev via llvm-dev < llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:> On 6/21/20 10:41 PM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev wrote: > > > Yes, broad. But what guys say: "You LLVM developers are all racists, > because you use 'master' word" > Or broader: "You all developers are all racists, because you use 'master' > word". We are not racists, but other guys think so. > So let's begin consistent and take into account all nations and languages. > Not only Americans. > > Работа/Job contains a root Раб/Slave. > https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0 > > If we want completely eradicate a word Slave we should take into account > all nations and languages! > You say that removing 'master' you won't mention Slave, but in Russia > leaving a Job could mean Slave > > Being a native Russian and being kinda proud of my feeling of the > language, I find this statement (Job could mean Slave) rather strange... > > The word "Работа" in Russian does not have any despising semantical > connotation derived from slavery. > It is easy to figure out just by reading the part of the page you quoted > named "Семантические свойства" (semantical characteristics). > It is all about work, job, labor, creativity (and a science term). No > single mention of slavery or forced labor. >According to https://thequestion.ru/questions/317780 and http://www.slovorod.ru/etym-chernykh/_pdf/russ-hist-etym-chernykh-2.pdf "работа" (job/work) is indeed ~= "рабство" (slavery) in ancient russian (11th century).> > "Root" is just the origin where the word started from, perhaps centuries > ago. It is quite common that words do change their meaning > through these centuries. >However I discovered this fact 5 minutes ago, and no one associates these two words together in the 21st century.> > If you take a look at all the words that have "-раб-" root in it you will > find: > раз-раб-отчик == developer > раз-раб-отка == development > об-раб-отка == handling > etc > > I would prefer to be allowed to do my job and be proud of it, and to call > my fellow developers - developers. > > thank you very much, > Fedor. > > -- > Best wishes, > Ivan Kush > > > > 21.06.2020, 22:01, "Chris Lattner" <clattner at nondot.org> > <clattner at nondot.org>: > > > > > On Jun 21, 2020, at 4:49 AM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev < > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote: > > Here we've began discussion about "master" > https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html > > Lets remove Job word completely > > But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language, > for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as "Работник", "Рабочий". > Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа". > As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily > check, literally translates to "slave". > To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious origin. > > > We have many uses of Job word > https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job > > Hi Ivan, > > Thank you for raising this issue. I haven’t heard much industry consensus > that the word ‘job’ is a problem - are there other communities considering > such a change? > > I’m concerned that a policy around “any English word that can be > translated to an unfortunate term in another language” could be too broad > to be useful. The discussion around “master" isn’t related to translations. > > -Chris > > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing listllvm-dev at lists.llvm.orghttps://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20200624/87c194f8/attachment.html>
Denis Antrushin via llvm-dev
2020-Jun-25 08:46 UTC
[llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in source code?
On 25.06.2020 01:19, Fedor Sergeev via llvm-dev wrote:> On 6/21/20 10:41 PM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev wrote: >> Yes, broad. But what guys say: "You LLVM developers are all racists, because you use 'master' word" >> Or broader: "You all developers are all racists, because you use 'master' word". We are not racists, but other guys think so. >> So let's begin consistent and take into account all nations and languages. Not only Americans. >> Работа/Job contains a root Раб/Slave. >> https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0 >> If we want completely eradicate a word Slave we should take into account all nations and languages! >> You say that removing 'master' you won't mention Slave, but in Russia leaving a Job could mean Slave > Being a native Russian and being kinda proud of my feeling of the language, I find this statement (Job could mean Slave) rather strange...Are you uninclusive racist or what? I just don't see the difference between you not seeing negative context of "Работа" and native English speakers not seeing negative context of "master". [ BTW, I feel great pain when you send me to do my work. :-P ] Of course, as a native Russian speaker you understand sarcastic context here, I believe. Does "Master of Science" (Science is enslaved!) is offensive? "Remastered Edition" (poor edition?)? Or "Black Hole" (disclaimer: this is astronomical term, not insult)? If not, why "master branch" is? Are we going to ban all words having any negative meanings? ``` If you have a word like “good”, what need is there for a word like “bad”? “Ungood” will do just as well ``` 1984
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