llvm dev - Jun 2020 - Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in source code?

<div>Here we've began discussion about
"master"</div><div><a
href="https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html">https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html</a></div><div> </div><div>Lets
remove Job word completely</div><div><pre>But as one can
easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language,
for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as
"Работник", "Рабочий".
Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа".
As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily
check, literally translates to "slave".
To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious
origin.
</pre></div><div> </div><div>We have many uses of
Job
word</div><div>https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job</div><div>-- <br
/>Best wishes,</div><div>Ivan
Kush</div><div> </div>

> On Jun 21, 2020, at 4:49 AM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> 
> Here we've began discussion about "master"
> https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html
<https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html>
>  
> Lets remove Job word completely
> But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language,
> for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as
"Работник", "Рабочий".
> Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа".
> As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can
easily
> check, literally translates to "slave".
> To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such
dubious origin.
>  
> We have many uses of Job word
> https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job
Hi Ivan,

Thank you for raising this issue.  I haven’t heard much industry consensus that
the word ‘job’ is a problem - are there other communities considering such a
change?

I’m concerned that a policy around “any English word that can be translated to
an unfortunate term in another language” could be too broad to be useful.  The
discussion around “master" isn’t related to translations.

-Chris

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<div> </div><div>Yes, broad. But what guys say: "You LLVM
developers are all racists, because you use 'master'
word"</div><div>Or broader: "You  all developers are all
racists, because you use 'master' word". We are not racists, but
other guys think so.</div><div>So let's begin consistent and
take into account all nations and languages. Not only
Americans.</div><div> </div><div>Работа/Job contains a
root Раб/Slave.</div><div><a
href="https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0">https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0</a></div><div> </div><div>If
we want completely eradicate a word Slave we should take into account all
nations and languages!</div><div>You say that removing
'master' you won't mention Slave, but in Russia leaving a Job could
mean Slave</div><div>-- <br />Best
wishes,</div><div>Ivan
Kush</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>21.06.2020,
22:01, "Chris Lattner"
<clattner@nondot.org>:</div><blockquote><div
style="word-wrap:break-word"> <div> <blockquote><div>On
Jun 21, 2020, at 4:49 AM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev <<a
href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>>
wrote:</div> <div><div>Here we've began discussion about
"master"</div><div><a
href="https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html">https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html</a></div><div> </div><div>Lets
remove Job word completely</div><div><pre>But as one can
easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language,
for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as
"Работник", "Рабочий".
Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа".
As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily
check, literally translates to "slave".
To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious
origin.
</pre></div><div> </div><div>We have many uses of
Job word</div><div><a
href="https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job">https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job</a></div></div></blockquote></div><div>Hi
Ivan,</div><div> </div><div>Thank you for raising this
issue.  I haven’t heard much industry consensus that the word ‘job’ is a problem
- are there other communities considering such a
change?</div><div> </div><div>I’m concerned that a
policy around “any English word that can be translated to an unfortunate term in
another language” could be too broad to be useful.  The discussion around
“master" isn’t related to
translations.</div><div> </div><div>-Chris</div></div></blockquote>

Agreed.
While we are at it, we should also show our support of LGBTQP+ community. After
all we wouldn't want to get cancelled like JKR after her transfobic tweet.
How exactly should such changes in LLVM look is up to discussion but there's
a perfect example from a related issue: female/male (connectors). Apart from the
fact that there's no such thing as gender (in a biological context) it's
also confusing because even those who explicitly identify as women don't
necessarily have to be "on the receiving end". Ergo, proper
replacement terms would be active/passive.
- P.A.

---------- Původní e-mail ----------

Od: Ivan Kush via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>

Komu: llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>

Datum: 21. 6. 2020 13:49:54

Předmět: [llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in
	source code?

Here we've began discussion about "master"
https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html
 
Lets remove Job word completely
But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language,
for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as
"Работник", "Рабочий".
Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа".
As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily
check, literally translates to "slave".
To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious
origin.

 
We have many uses of Job word
https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job
-- 
Best wishes,
Ivan Kush
 

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Thank you,
Tanya
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 8:57 AM, via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> 
> Agreed.
> While we are at it, we should also show our support of LGBTQP+ community.
After all we wouldn't want to get cancelled like JKR after her transfobic
tweet.
> How exactly should such changes in LLVM look is up to discussion but
there's a perfect example from a related issue: female/male (connectors).
Apart from the fact that there's no such thing as gender (in a biological
context) it's also confusing because even those who explicitly identify as
women don't necessarily have to be "on the receiving end". Ergo,
proper replacement terms would be active/passive.
> - P.A.
> 
> ---------- Původní e-mail ----------
> 
> Od: Ivan Kush via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
> 
> Komu: llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
> 
> Datum: 21. 6. 2020 13:49:54
> 
> Předmět: [llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in
> 	source code?
> 
> Here we've began discussion about "master"
> https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html
>  
> Lets remove Job word completely
> But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language,
> for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as
"Работник", "Рабочий".
> Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа".
> As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can
easily
> check, literally translates to "slave".
> To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such
dubious origin.
> 
>  
> We have many uses of Job word
> https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job
> -- 
> Best wishes,
> Ivan Kush
>  
> 
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