llvm dev - Nov 2019 - [cfe-dev] RFC: Moving toward Discord and Discourse for LLVM's discussions

FWIW I'm a fan of using open-source stuff for open-source projects.
Discourse looks open source, but Discord doesn't as far as I can tell (?).

On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 3:15 AM Chandler Carruth via cfe-dev <
cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> Hello folks,
>
> I sent the message quoted below to llvm-dev@ just now, but it applies to
> the whole community so sending an FYI here. Probably best to follow up w/
> discussion on llvm-dev.
>
> The archive link for reference is here:
> http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2019-November/136880.html
>
> On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 11:48 PM Chandler Carruth <chandlerc at
gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>> *Short version:*I've set up an LLVM Discord server for real time
chat
>> (similar to IRC) and an LLVM Discourse server for forums (similar to
email
>> lists):
>> https://discord.gg/xS7Z362
>> https://llvm.discourse.group/
>>
>> Please join and use these new services. They are only partially set up
>> and still very new, so don't hesitate to improve them and/or reach
out to
>> this thread with any issues you see or things you want to fix. Also,
both
>> services have dedicated feedback channels.
>>
>> Do feel free to use Discourse for technical discussions, although try
not
>> to create duplicate discussions (any more than you would between the
lists
>> and Bugzilla) and make sure the people you're having the discussion
with
>> are fine using Discourse instead of the email list. In case Discourse
>> doesn't work out, we'll collect and archive everything so it
isn't lost.
>>
>>
>> *Longer version & more details:*During this year's Women in
Compilers
>> and Tools meeting, folks expressed very clearly that our communication
>> systems cause a non-trivial amount of friction for new people trying to
>> find out about, learn, or contribute to LLVM. Both IRC for chatting and
>> mailing lists for longer-form discussions are unfamiliar, difficult,
and
>> often intimidating for newcomers. While I have long been a fan and
>> resistant to change in these areas, the feedback from folks at WiCT was
>> compelling and important for us as a community to address. Even if it
means
>> I have to let go of my precious IRC. ;]
>>
>> We talked to a bunch of people and looked at the options out there and
>> the most promising ones were Discord for chatting and Discourse for
>> longer-form discussions. Meike and I have set up both an initial
Discord
>> and Discourse server. You can find them here:
>> https://discord.gg/xS7Z362
>> https://llvm.discourse.group/
>>
>> There is still a lot of work to be done. Notably, it'd be great for
folks
>> to clean up and improve the summaries for each of the groups in
Discourse,
>> and I'll be asking various people to help moderate on both
Discourse and
>> Discord. If you'd like to help out with a specific set of
improvements to
>> these, don't hesitate to reach out to me or Meike and we can get
you set
>> up. Some specific things we're already working on:
>>
>>    - Getting Discord verified with a nice URL.
>>    - Archives of mailing lists on Discourse so you can search in one
>>    place, etc.
>>       - See the plan here:
>>      
https://llvm.discourse.group/t/mirroring-and-archiving-llvm-mailing-lists-on-discourse/61
>>    - Moving Discourse to forums.llvm.org.
>>    - Documenting the best way to move to Discourse while preserving a
>>    similarly email-focused workflow.
>>
>>
>> We're just adding these for now, but I'd like people to
seriously try
>> using them. While IRC has served us fairly well, I think it is one of
the
>> bigger barriers to entry. Our email lists are more effective, but also
have
>> had serious infrastructure challenges over the years: a constant flow
of
>> spam, bouncing for several major email providers, etc. Discourse has
very
>> powerful email-based workflows available and I think we should
seriously
>> consider moving to Discourse long-term instead of the email lists.
>>
>> I also want to say thanks to all the folks at the WiCT workshop for
>> giving me and others feedback. I was pretty set in my ways around these
>> kind of things, but hearing the kinds of challenges this has posed to
>> people less established in the community was a real eye opener. It
takes a
>> lot to speak up like this, and I really appreciate it. I hope this also
>> helps start to address these long-standing issues. Also a huge thanks
to
>> Tanya for organizing the WICT workshop and Meike for helping drive this
>> message home to me and doing a bunch of the work getting these things
set
>> up. I wouldn't have been able to do it without her help, especially
around
>> Discord bots.
>>
>> -Chandler
>>
> _______________________________________________
> cfe-dev mailing list
> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org
> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev
>
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Are the barriers to newcomers really the tools and not just the community's
general attitude toward newcomers?

On Mon, Nov 18, 2019, 8:11 AM Nico Weber via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> FWIW I'm a fan of using open-source stuff for open-source projects.
> Discourse looks open source, but Discord doesn't as far as I can tell
(?).
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 3:15 AM Chandler Carruth via cfe-dev <
> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> I sent the message quoted below to llvm-dev@ just now, but it applies
to
>> the whole community so sending an FYI here. Probably best to follow up
w/
>> discussion on llvm-dev.
>>
>> The archive link for reference is here:
>> http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2019-November/136880.html
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 11:48 PM Chandler Carruth <chandlerc at
gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>>
>>> *Short version:*I've set up an LLVM Discord server for real
time chat
>>> (similar to IRC) and an LLVM Discourse server for forums (similar
to email
>>> lists):
>>> https://discord.gg/xS7Z362
>>> https://llvm.discourse.group/
>>>
>>> Please join and use these new services. They are only partially set
up
>>> and still very new, so don't hesitate to improve them and/or
reach out to
>>> this thread with any issues you see or things you want to fix.
Also, both
>>> services have dedicated feedback channels.
>>>
>>> Do feel free to use Discourse for technical discussions, although
try
>>> not to create duplicate discussions (any more than you would
between the
>>> lists and Bugzilla) and make sure the people you're having the
discussion
>>> with are fine using Discourse instead of the email list. In case
Discourse
>>> doesn't work out, we'll collect and archive everything so
it isn't lost.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Longer version & more details:*During this year's Women in
Compilers
>>> and Tools meeting, folks expressed very clearly that our
communication
>>> systems cause a non-trivial amount of friction for new people
trying to
>>> find out about, learn, or contribute to LLVM. Both IRC for chatting
and
>>> mailing lists for longer-form discussions are unfamiliar,
difficult, and
>>> often intimidating for newcomers. While I have long been a fan and
>>> resistant to change in these areas, the feedback from folks at WiCT
was
>>> compelling and important for us as a community to address. Even if
it means
>>> I have to let go of my precious IRC. ;]
>>>
>>> We talked to a bunch of people and looked at the options out there
and
>>> the most promising ones were Discord for chatting and Discourse for
>>> longer-form discussions. Meike and I have set up both an initial
Discord
>>> and Discourse server. You can find them here:
>>> https://discord.gg/xS7Z362
>>> https://llvm.discourse.group/
>>>
>>> There is still a lot of work to be done. Notably, it'd be great
for
>>> folks to clean up and improve the summaries for each of the groups
in
>>> Discourse, and I'll be asking various people to help moderate
on both
>>> Discourse and Discord. If you'd like to help out with a
specific set of
>>> improvements to these, don't hesitate to reach out to me or
Meike and we
>>> can get you set up. Some specific things we're already working
on:
>>>
>>>    - Getting Discord verified with a nice URL.
>>>    - Archives of mailing lists on Discourse so you can search in
one
>>>    place, etc.
>>>       - See the plan here:
>>>      
https://llvm.discourse.group/t/mirroring-and-archiving-llvm-mailing-lists-on-discourse/61
>>>    - Moving Discourse to forums.llvm.org.
>>>    - Documenting the best way to move to Discourse while preserving
a
>>>    similarly email-focused workflow.
>>>
>>>
>>> We're just adding these for now, but I'd like people to
seriously try
>>> using them. While IRC has served us fairly well, I think it is one
of the
>>> bigger barriers to entry. Our email lists are more effective, but
also have
>>> had serious infrastructure challenges over the years: a constant
flow of
>>> spam, bouncing for several major email providers, etc. Discourse
has very
>>> powerful email-based workflows available and I think we should
seriously
>>> consider moving to Discourse long-term instead of the email lists.
>>>
>>> I also want to say thanks to all the folks at the WiCT workshop for
>>> giving me and others feedback. I was pretty set in my ways around
these
>>> kind of things, but hearing the kinds of challenges this has posed
to
>>> people less established in the community was a real eye opener. It
takes a
>>> lot to speak up like this, and I really appreciate it. I hope this
also
>>> helps start to address these long-standing issues. Also a huge
thanks to
>>> Tanya for organizing the WICT workshop and Meike for helping drive
this
>>> message home to me and doing a bunch of the work getting these
things set
>>> up. I wouldn't have been able to do it without her help,
especially around
>>> Discord bots.
>>>
>>> -Chandler
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> cfe-dev mailing list
>> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org
>> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>
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On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 4:10 PM Nico Weber via cfe-dev
<cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>
> FWIW I'm a fan of using open-source stuff for open-source projects.
Discourse looks open source, but Discord doesn't as far as I can tell (?).
+1. I don't believe this decision was well thought-through.
The Discord's ToS, lack of open-source clients (if you can even call
the situation like that,
feels like ICQ/Skype all over again), centralization, etc; are pretty
'major' regressions.

As a general, not really LLVM-specific remark,
I find it worrying that the noble goal of usability improvement/entry
barrier lowering is being applied with only said endgoal in mind
and no real assessment of the approach taken, the effect produced
by such approach and the cost it incurs on the existing
ecosystem/community/etc.
But this is very much the norm in nowadays world :/


Roman.
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 3:15 AM Chandler Carruth via cfe-dev <cfe-dev at
lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> I sent the message quoted below to llvm-dev@ just now, but it applies
to the whole community so sending an FYI here. Probably best to follow up w/
discussion on llvm-dev.
>>
>> The archive link for reference is here:
>> http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2019-November/136880.html
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 11:48 PM Chandler Carruth <chandlerc at
gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> Short version:
>>> I've set up an LLVM Discord server for real time chat (similar
to IRC) and an LLVM Discourse server for forums (similar to email lists):
>>> https://discord.gg/xS7Z362
>>> https://llvm.discourse.group/
>>>
>>> Please join and use these new services. They are only partially set
up and still very new, so don't hesitate to improve them and/or reach out to
this thread with any issues you see or things you want to fix. Also, both
services have dedicated feedback channels.
>>>
>>> Do feel free to use Discourse for technical discussions, although
try not to create duplicate discussions (any more than you would between the
lists and Bugzilla) and make sure the people you're having the discussion
with are fine using Discourse instead of the email list. In case Discourse
doesn't work out, we'll collect and archive everything so it isn't
lost.
>>>
>>> Longer version & more details:
>>> During this year's Women in Compilers and Tools meeting, folks
expressed very clearly that our communication systems cause a non-trivial amount
of friction for new people trying to find out about, learn, or contribute to
LLVM. Both IRC for chatting and mailing lists for longer-form discussions are
unfamiliar, difficult, and often intimidating for newcomers. While I have long
been a fan and resistant to change in these areas, the feedback from folks at
WiCT was compelling and important for us as a community to address. Even if it
means I have to let go of my precious IRC. ;]
>>>
>>> We talked to a bunch of people and looked at the options out there
and the most promising ones were Discord for chatting and Discourse for
longer-form discussions. Meike and I have set up both an initial Discord and
Discourse server. You can find them here:
>>> https://discord.gg/xS7Z362
>>> https://llvm.discourse.group/
>>>
>>> There is still a lot of work to be done. Notably, it'd be great
for folks to clean up and improve the summaries for each of the groups in
Discourse, and I'll be asking various people to help moderate on both
Discourse and Discord. If you'd like to help out with a specific set of
improvements to these, don't hesitate to reach out to me or Meike and we can
get you set up. Some specific things we're already working on:
>>>
>>> Getting Discord verified with a nice URL.
>>> Archives of mailing lists on Discourse so you can search in one
place, etc.
>>>
>>> See the plan here:
https://llvm.discourse.group/t/mirroring-and-archiving-llvm-mailing-lists-on-discourse/61
>>>
>>> Moving Discourse to forums.llvm.org.
>>> Documenting the best way to move to Discourse while preserving a
similarly email-focused workflow.
>>>
>>>
>>> We're just adding these for now, but I'd like people to
seriously try using them. While IRC has served us fairly well, I think it is one
of the bigger barriers to entry. Our email lists are more effective, but also
have had serious infrastructure challenges over the years: a constant flow of
spam, bouncing for several major email providers, etc. Discourse has very
powerful email-based workflows available and I think we should seriously
consider moving to Discourse long-term instead of the email lists.
>>>
>>> I also want to say thanks to all the folks at the WiCT workshop for
giving me and others feedback. I was pretty set in my ways around these kind of
things, but hearing the kinds of challenges this has posed to people less
established in the community was a real eye opener. It takes a lot to speak up
like this, and I really appreciate it. I hope this also helps start to address
these long-standing issues. Also a huge thanks to Tanya for organizing the WICT
workshop and Meike for helping drive this message home to me and doing a bunch
of the work getting these things set up. I wouldn't have been able to do it
without her help, especially around Discord bots.
>>>
>>> -Chandler
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> cfe-dev mailing list
>> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org
>> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> cfe-dev mailing list
> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org
> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev

Hi all,
> On Mon, 2019-11-18 at 08:09 -0500, Nico Weber via llvm-dev wrote:FWIW
> I'm a fan of using open-source stuff for open-source projects.
> Discourse looks open source, but Discord doesn't as far as I can tell
> (?).
As regards this, I wonder if Matrix (matrix.org) has been considered at
all? It's an open standard protocol with a number of open source
clients that behaves very similarly to Slack/Discord. A number of other
open source communities I follow are using this already.

David Truby

On 18/11/2019 17:47, David Truby via llvm-dev wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>> On Mon, 2019-11-18 at 08:09 -0500, Nico Weber via llvm-dev wrote:FWIW
>> I'm a fan of using open-source stuff for open-source projects.
>> Discourse looks open source, but Discord doesn't as far as I can
tell
>> (?).
> 
> As regards this, I wonder if Matrix (matrix.org) has been considered at
> all? It's an open standard protocol with a number of open source
> clients that behaves very similarly to Slack/Discord. A number of other
> open source communities I follow are using this already.
[ Disclaimer: I'm the project lead for Matrix.org, so am hardly 
impartial on this.  (That said, we keep up with LLVM given we lean on it 
hard via emscripten when compiling our end-to-end encryption 
implementation (https://gitlab.matrix.org/matrix-org/olm) down to WASM 
and JS, so I have some tenuous claim to be lurking here ;) ]

We built Matrix to be an entirely open network and open standard chat 
protocol, with the intention of combining the good bits of IRC (the 
community; the openness; the standardisation; the relative ease of dev; 
open source servers & clients) with clients which provide an accessible 
UX of similar quality to Discord/Slack.  Riot.im is the most advanced 
client, and while it's still not quite as glossy as Discord, the gap is 
closing, and we're moving faster than they are.

I get why some open source projects (e.g. bits of Rust) have moved to 
Discord out of pragmatism for having the smoothest possible UX to ensure 
the widest audience, but it comes at a cost. The main tradeoffs are:

  * As others have pointed out, Discord's monetisation model is that 
they own your data.  In Matrix, all participating servers share 
responsibility for conversations, and users can pick whichever server 
they happen to trust.  The ones we run as Matrix.org have these policies 
(https://github.com/vector-im/policies/tree/master/docs/matrix-org), but 
you can use whichever you like.  Additionally, Matrix is managed by the 
non-profit Matrix.org Foundation (https://matrix.org/foundation), to 
protect the protocol's users from conflicting commercial interests.

  * Discord locks you into a proprietary service.  It's the chat 
equivalent of using MSVC Express just because it happens to be free and 
glossy.  Discord explicitly forbids 3rd party clients and bridging, and 
you're not exactly going to have the freedom to tweak and extend the 
server - which is after all what open source is all about.  In contrast, 
https://matrix.org/docs/spec is the Spec we publish that forms the core 
of the Matrix protocol, and 
https://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-now/ is an overview of all 
the implementations (servers, clients, bots, bridges etc) of it.

  * Discord traps you in a proprietary silo.  You can talk to anyone you 
like... as long as they're on Discord.  If you want to collaborate 
directly with other projects on IRC, Slack, XMPP or wherever you're 
screwed.  Matrix provides increasingly decent bridges to IRC, Discord, 
Slack, etc so even if folks aren't natively on Matrix, you can talk to 
them anyway.  (And if LLVM does end up on Discord, we'll go ahead and 
bridge the Discord channels into Matrix anyway :P)

  * You don't have any end-to-end encryption.  If you ever found 
yourself discussing something sensitive (e.g. security vuln 
coordination) and don't want eavesdroppers in or around the server from 
following along, you're out of luck.  Matrix however implements 
Signal-style Double Ratchet as required.

I could go on, but I think the best datapoint I can think of is 
Mozilla's recent trial where they stood up Matrix/Riot, Slack, 
MatterMost & Rocket.chat side by side for a month-long comparison. 
(Discord was dismissed out of hand due to their dubious privacy 
policies).  They haven't announced the final winner yet, but you a 
sample of the feedback they gathered can be found at 
https://discourse.mozilla.org/t/synchronous-messaging-at-mozilla-trial-servers-feedback/44871.
  And empirically, by the end of the trial, almost all the community 
chatter was happening on Matrix rather than the other instances, which 
were a bit dead (at least in the public channels).  It also spurred a 
*lot* of development - for instance, we went from having some of the 
worst accessibility to being one of the best, c.f. 
https://toot.cafe/@marcozehe/102998816933348357.

TL;DR: please don't pick a chat solution based purely on its current 
shininess and UX.  The FOSS options are evolving very rapidly (much more 
so than the Slacks & Discords), but we will only be able to grow if 
we're given the opportunity, rather than being dismissed due to being 
FOSS or "not mainstream" - much like LLVM in the early days needed 
champions to spur forward development.

Matthew

P.S. and even if some of Rust are lost on Discord, others ended up on 
Matrix, c.f. 
https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg/issues/357#issuecomment-504793602

-- 
Matthew Hodgson
Matrix.org

There *are* open-source Discord clients, 3rd party tools and the like. The
corporation behind Discord is just not authorising you legally to use any
of those tools at hand. There are rarely any technical barriers or
countermeasures, though.

Roman Lebedev via cfe-dev <cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org> ezt írta (időpont:
2019.
nov. 18., H, 16:08):
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 4:10 PM Nico Weber via cfe-dev
> <cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> >
> > FWIW I'm a fan of using open-source stuff for open-source
projects.
> Discourse looks open source, but Discord doesn't as far as I can tell
(?).
> +1. I don't believe this decision was well thought-through.
> The Discord's ToS, lack of open-source clients (if you can even call
> the situation like that,
> feels like ICQ/Skype all over again), centralization, etc; are pretty
> 'major' regressions.
>
> As a general, not really LLVM-specific remark,
> I find it worrying that the noble goal of usability improvement/entry
> barrier lowering is being applied with only said endgoal in mind
> and no real assessment of the approach taken, the effect produced
> by such approach and the cost it incurs on the existing
> ecosystem/community/etc.
> But this is very much the norm in nowadays world :/
>
>
> Roman.
>
> > On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 3:15 AM Chandler Carruth via cfe-dev <
> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello folks,
> >>
> >> I sent the message quoted below to llvm-dev@ just now, but it
applies
> to the whole community so sending an FYI here. Probably best to follow up
> w/ discussion on llvm-dev.
> >>
> >> The archive link for reference is here:
> >> http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2019-November/136880.html
> >>
> >> On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 11:48 PM Chandler Carruth <chandlerc at
gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello everyone,
> >>>
> >>> Short version:
> >>> I've set up an LLVM Discord server for real time chat
(similar to IRC)
> and an LLVM Discourse server for forums (similar to email lists):
> >>> https://discord.gg/xS7Z362
> >>> https://llvm.discourse.group/
> >>>
> >>> Please join and use these new services. They are only
partially set up
> and still very new, so don't hesitate to improve them and/or reach out
to
> this thread with any issues you see or things you want to fix. Also, both
> services have dedicated feedback channels.
> >>>
> >>> Do feel free to use Discourse for technical discussions,
although try
> not to create duplicate discussions (any more than you would between the
> lists and Bugzilla) and make sure the people you're having the
discussion
> with are fine using Discourse instead of the email list. In case Discourse
> doesn't work out, we'll collect and archive everything so it
isn't lost.
> >>>
> >>> Longer version & more details:
> >>> During this year's Women in Compilers and Tools meeting,
folks
> expressed very clearly that our communication systems cause a non-trivial
> amount of friction for new people trying to find out about, learn, or
> contribute to LLVM. Both IRC for chatting and mailing lists for longer-form
> discussions are unfamiliar, difficult, and often intimidating for
> newcomers. While I have long been a fan and resistant to change in these
> areas, the feedback from folks at WiCT was compelling and important for us
> as a community to address. Even if it means I have to let go of my precious
> IRC. ;]
> >>>
> >>> We talked to a bunch of people and looked at the options out
there and
> the most promising ones were Discord for chatting and Discourse for
> longer-form discussions. Meike and I have set up both an initial Discord
> and Discourse server. You can find them here:
> >>> https://discord.gg/xS7Z362
> >>> https://llvm.discourse.group/
> >>>
> >>> There is still a lot of work to be done. Notably, it'd be
great for
> folks to clean up and improve the summaries for each of the groups in
> Discourse, and I'll be asking various people to help moderate on both
> Discourse and Discord. If you'd like to help out with a specific set of
> improvements to these, don't hesitate to reach out to me or Meike and
we
> can get you set up. Some specific things we're already working on:
> >>>
> >>> Getting Discord verified with a nice URL.
> >>> Archives of mailing lists on Discourse so you can search in
one place,
> etc.
> >>>
> >>> See the plan here:
>
https://llvm.discourse.group/t/mirroring-and-archiving-llvm-mailing-lists-on-discourse/61
> >>>
> >>> Moving Discourse to forums.llvm.org.
> >>> Documenting the best way to move to Discourse while preserving
a
> similarly email-focused workflow.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We're just adding these for now, but I'd like people
to seriously try
> using them. While IRC has served us fairly well, I think it is one of the
> bigger barriers to entry. Our email lists are more effective, but also have
> had serious infrastructure challenges over the years: a constant flow of
> spam, bouncing for several major email providers, etc. Discourse has very
> powerful email-based workflows available and I think we should seriously
> consider moving to Discourse long-term instead of the email lists.
> >>>
> >>> I also want to say thanks to all the folks at the WiCT
workshop for
> giving me and others feedback. I was pretty set in my ways around these
> kind of things, but hearing the kinds of challenges this has posed to
> people less established in the community was a real eye opener. It takes a
> lot to speak up like this, and I really appreciate it. I hope this also
> helps start to address these long-standing issues. Also a huge thanks to
> Tanya for organizing the WICT workshop and Meike for helping drive this
> message home to me and doing a bunch of the work getting these things set
> up. I wouldn't have been able to do it without her help, especially
around
> Discord bots.
> >>>
> >>> -Chandler
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> cfe-dev mailing list
> >> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org
> >> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > cfe-dev mailing list
> > cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org
> > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev
> _______________________________________________
> cfe-dev mailing list
> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org
> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev
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