CentOS - Jun 2007 - How to add to EPEL wishlist?

Does anyone know how to submit wishes to the EPEL Wishlist here?
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/WishList

It reads "Immutable Page".

They say: "Please add packages that are part of Fedora but lack a EPEL
maintainer to this list", but there is no way to do that!

They don't say if "Packages part of Fedora" means "Core"
or it can be Extras too, but packages obviously missing from RHEL (4 and 5) and
castrating the KDE desktop include:
-- JuK (it was stripped off kdemultimedia);
-- Kaffeine;
-- gtk-qt-engine;
...

As a side note for AmaroK lovers: I am very happy with the simpler JuK on
systems where I have it, and it *does* have a future, as it will be present in
KDE4 too: http://www.purinchu.net/wp/2007/06/26/juk-love/

But Red Hat _hates_ KDE apps, and it even castrates official KDE packages such
as kdemultimedia...

Thanks,
R-C




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On Thu, 2007-06-28 at 03:46 -0700, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU
wrote:
> Does anyone know how to submit wishes to the EPEL Wishlist here?
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/WishList
> 
> It reads "Immutable Page".
Wrong list?

-- Daniel

> Wrong list?
The subject line was a question. EPEL stands for... you know what. And CentOS is
a rebuild of... you know what. Therefore, I suspect that CentOS users
would/should/could be interested in adding EPEL as an extra repository. You
know, there is more than Karan[bir] and DAG on Earth...

But yes, it might be a wrong list, for different reasons than you thought of.

R-C





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On Thu, Jun 28, 2007 at 03:46:46AM -0700, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU
wrote:
> Does anyone know how to submit wishes to the EPEL Wishlist here?
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/WishList
> 
> It reads "Immutable Page".
> 
You need a Wiki account (FAS):

 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#head-3d4b8815f923a8f137fb466901ca2cf1b567cf0f

You can contact me if you like to get added to the EditGroup when
you've completed the process (use rayvd at bludgeon.org)

Ray

> You need a Wiki account (FAS):
> 
>  
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#head-3d4b8815f923a8f137fb466901ca2cf1b567cf0f
> 
> You can contact me if you like to get added to the EditGroup when
> you've completed the process
It was obvious that I would need an account, so I made one. 
It was less than obvious that it would be useless.
It's only now that I've read the whole complexity of the process to be
performed *before* someone could add you to the EditGroup -- it's so
unbelievable for a poor civilian that I am that I feel like I am already at
Gitmo!

Here's what I could read one should do:
1. Complete the Contributor License Agreement, but this has prerequisite steps.
2. In order to do that, you have to create a SSH key.
3. You then have to create a GPG key.
4. You have to create a Fedora account (not a wiki account!).
5. For that, your GPG key should be published to hkp://pgp.mit.edu/.
6. Submit the form to apply for a Fedora account.
7. Request the  Contributor License Agreement (CLA).
8. Edit it to agree with it, GPG-sign it, and send it back.
9. Only now you can contact someone from the EditGroup to ask for the right to
edit the wiki page that holds the EPEL wishlist!

To me, it would be simpler to apply to visit the Pentagon or the CIA! I am
disgusted by the way the Fedora people handle all this stuff.

Everyone knowing how a Bugzilla works, or even how a mailing list works, can
easily find that much simpler ways were available to the public to be able to
SUGGEST a few packages for inclusion in EPEL.

When GNOME asked the public in August-Sept. 2006 what new game to add to GNOME
games, before setting up the Usage Survey, a suggestion list was open. It was
easy to add suggestions there, by simply creating a wiki account, no fuss added,
no strings attached.

Now I know I can't expect for *anything* from EPEL. I can only rely on
what's already there, plus what we can find in centosplus, Dag, Karan,
ATrpms, and a few others.

I am shocked. 
 
R-C





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> I went ahead and added gtk-qt-engine and kaffeine to the EPEL wishlist:
>
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/WishList
>
> juk appears to be part of kdemultimedia-extras in F7 (only
> kdemultimedia is available in CentOS/RHEL), so I added that as well.
Thanks!
Maybe KPowersave wouldn't hurt, see here how to build it, it however needs a
newer m4 than provided by RHEL5 (available in SL5 though):
http://listserv.fnal.gov/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0706&L=scientific-linux-users&T=0&P=15551

R-C






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> > I am shocked. 
> 
> And still on the wrong list.
> 
> Ralph

OK, if you want me out, I'll unsubscribe. You're right, it's a list
with a bad karma.
I *knew* that people on the CentOS ML are much more _aggressive_ than people on
the SciLinux ML.

R-C






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> What's amazing is that he got his problem resolved, I would never have
> thought to post to this list to get something on the fedora wiki fixed.
> It's kinda like posting to a MS Word list a problem about OpenOffice.
Well, thank you all, but Paul, you're not correct. My first mail asked for
advice. It was not "hey, I want those packages in EPEL!", but rather
"does anyone know how one can suggest packages to be added to EPEL?" I
thought that was clear enough, and since EPEL users are RHEL users + CentOS
users + SL users + StartCom users, I also believed [some of] you should already
be using EPEL, some of you needing more, and some of you already *knowing* how
to add suggestions for EPEL!

To me, it was a very logical thing to do: ask people who NEED those packages,
not people who are not actually using them! (Fedora guys use Fedora, right?)

It's amazing indeed how things moved towards a solution, however it's
also amazing how in A.D. 2007 people always rush to cry "wrong list! wrong
list!", w/o even making the i++; logical iteration to realize _why_ the
post was made on this list! When I first used a mailing list 12 years ago,
discussions were absolutely frank, open, polite and low-stress, but now on
almost all lists there are wars, flame wars, nervous people and "bad
karma".

Thank you,
R-C






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On Fri, 6 Jul 2007, Radu-Cristian FOTESCU wrote:
> > > EPEL?" I thought that was clear enough, and since EPEL users
are RHEL
> > > users + CentOS users + SL users + StartCom users, I also believed
[some
> > > of] you should already be using EPEL, some of you needing more,
and some
> > > of you already *knowing* how to add suggestions for EPEL!
> > 
> > And you send that mail to the wrong list. Just admit that and your
life
> > becomes easier. There's nothing wrong with admiting an error,
people
> > respect you for it.
> 
> Nope. It is not *the* wrong list. Is the list of some of the target users
of
> the EPEL packages. ALL the following user lists are valid lists because
they
> contain people that are part of the EPEL's intended audience:
> -- Red Hat (RHEL) lists (NON-Fedora);
> -- CentOS lists;
> -- Scientific Linux lists;
> -- StartCom lists.
Radu-Christian, you are a smart guy. If you send a mail containing:

	"Does anyone know how to submit wishes to the EPEL Wishlist here?"

to the CentOS mailinglist and NOT to the EPEL mailinglist. You have send 
it to the wrong mailinglist. No arguing required really. Spare us the 
effort.

Ralph is the mailinglist maintainer, if he tells you politely it is 
off-topic, there is no need to argue. There is no need to reply.

> > But arguing the opposite while people know better is plain *censored*.
> 
> Yes, Dag, you know better because you're a developer. Sorry, I forgot
you're
> a God. (But I'm an agnostic anyway.)
I am not a developer and I have no clue what that has to do with anything. 
I would be pleased if you read my mail without any connotations at all.
You add the connotations, not me.

> > Sure, some people here know your answers. Hell, you could ask
Microsoft
> > questions here and get answers. But that doesn't mean this is the
right
> > list for Microsoft questions.
> > 
> > I'm sure you can understand this without arguing.
> 
> What has M$ to do with this? why should Microsoft be the best second
example
> in any discussion?
It was an example as much as any other example. I could have said Apple, I 
could have said Google. Every one of those examples makes the point.

But maybe you do not want to see the point and that makes every example 
bad.

> > Go and tell the EPEL people. EPEL is a Fedora project and not a CentOS
> > project. Go check the EPEL mailinglist where we have discussed that
Fedora
> > is probably the wrong place to create CentOS/RHEL packages.
> 
> Of course Fedora is a bad place to create packages that willl *not* be used
> under Fedora, but under RHEL & clones! So they are basically *not*
interested
> in the matter. So *you*, CentOS, SciLi, StartCom and RHEL users are more
> interested. So maybe you have asked yourself how to add packages to EPEL,
who
> to ask, what to do, etc. THIS IS WHY I HAVE ASKED HERE JUST IN CASE SOMEONE
> KNOWS MORE! (If this is so hard  to understand, I am sorry to say, but
you're
> an idiot, socially speaking, because I don't question your IQ.)
CentOS is not related to EPEL or Fedora. In fact, since EPEL is 
incompatible with RPMforge, ATrpms and CentOS Extras and because most 
CentOS users use RPMforge and ATrpms, I guess when EPEL is announced 
officially I'll have to add a statement that EPEL/Fedora is not interested 
in compatibility with RPMforge.

> > Keeping a list on-topic is important, that's why we send mails to
tell
> > people they are on the wrong list instead of answering their question.
> 
> "On-topic" doesn't include the very many questions I am
reading now and then
> saying "how do I do this in CentOS", but they don't have
anything
> CentOS-specific, but should rather say "how do I do this in
Linux"... it is
> nevertheless better to answer to those people (and this is what is
generally
> happening).
How do I do something in Linux often bails down to: what is the best way 
to do it in CentOS. So yes, all of those questions belongs to the list 
because if you are a CentOS user, the CentOS mailinglist is the most 
apropriate.

For EPEL questions, the CentOS list is not te most appropriate. In fact, 
the EPEL mailinglist is. That is why Ralph politely told you that the EPEL 
mailinglist is the place to ask the question.

And it could have ended there without a fuss. But it is your arguing that 
makes it look like everybody is after you. That is your perception 
problem, not the mailinglists problem.

Kind regards,
--   dag wieers,  dag at wieers.com,  http://dag.wieers.com/   --
[all I want is a warm bed and a kind word and unlimited power]