Really strange that I cannot find a lot of discussion on a good RoR IDE. Most of what I have pulled up dates to 2008. Also the Eclipse IDE has trouble finding the JRE running on Windows 7 64 bit. Very surprised that Eclipse is not more concerned with having there platform work better with JRE since it is so dependent upon it. I dropped it like a hot potato for this reason. I am going to give the netbeans a go but I would like a lot more input on the matter from seasoned RoR developers. If I am missing something please let me know. I am really interested in switching to Ruby for developing enterprise apps. Otherwise I will be forced to go with visual studio wfc. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Hi, We are using Netbeans since early 6.x versions, and are very happy with it. RubyMine is also an excellent choice, but you''ll have to buy it. For the Eclipse part of the question, there is two solutions : - Aptana - 3rdRails (not free) but I was not please last time I gave them a try. On the other hand, most of the RoR community is quite fond of Textmate or similar code editors. On 24 août, 03:25, ZRiddick <tcr.t...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Really strange that I cannot find a lot of discussion on a good RoR > IDE. Most of what I have pulled up dates to 2008. Also the Eclipse > IDE has trouble finding the JRE running on Windows 7 64 bit. Very > surprised that Eclipse is not more concerned with having there > platform work better with JRE since it is so dependent upon it. I > dropped it like a hot potato for this reason. I am going to give the > netbeans a go but I would like a lot more input on the matter from > seasoned RoR developers. If I am missing something please let me know. > I am really interested in switching to Ruby for developing enterprise > apps. Otherwise I will be forced to go with visual studio wfc.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I think NetBeans 6.9 is a good choice for beginners (hints, checks syntax etc.), and then they can also move to Terminal+TextMate or any other "hardcore text editor" ;) On 24 Sie, 10:15, Jerome Fillioux <jerome.filli...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Hi, > > We are using Netbeans since early 6.x versions, and are very happy > with it. > RubyMine is also an excellent choice, but you''ll have to buy it. > For the Eclipse part of the question, there is two solutions : > - Aptana > - 3rdRails (not free) > but I was not please last time I gave them a try. > > On the other hand, most of the RoR community is quite fond of Textmate > or similar code editors. > > On 24 août, 03:25, ZRiddick <tcr.t...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > > Really strange that I cannot find a lot of discussion on a good RoR > > IDE. Most of what I have pulled up dates to 2008. Also the Eclipse > > IDE has trouble finding the JRE running on Windows 7 64 bit. Very > > surprised that Eclipse is not more concerned with having there > > platform work better with JRE since it is so dependent upon it. I > > dropped it like a hot potato for this reason. I am going to give the > > netbeans a go but I would like a lot more input on the matter from > > seasoned RoR developers. If I am missing something please let me know. > > I am really interested in switching to Ruby for developing enterprise > > apps. Otherwise I will be forced to go with visual studio wfc.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I develop under linux that doesn''t have textmate. I''m using netbeans and I think it is a complete ide for develop rails apps. On 24 August 2010 11:00, Paweł K <komrath-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I think NetBeans 6.9 is a good choice for beginners (hints, checks > syntax etc.), and then they can also move to Terminal+TextMate or any > other "hardcore text editor" ;) > > On 24 Sie, 10:15, Jerome Fillioux <jerome.filli...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> We are using Netbeans since early 6.x versions, and are very happy >> with it. >> RubyMine is also an excellent choice, but you''ll have to buy it. >> For the Eclipse part of the question, there is two solutions : >> - Aptana >> - 3rdRails (not free) >> but I was not please last time I gave them a try. >> >> On the other hand, most of the RoR community is quite fond of Textmate >> or similar code editors. >> >> On 24 août, 03:25, ZRiddick <tcr.t...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Really strange that I cannot find a lot of discussion on a good RoR >> > IDE. Most of what I have pulled up dates to 2008. Also the Eclipse >> > IDE has trouble finding the JRE running on Windows 7 64 bit. Very >> > surprised that Eclipse is not more concerned with having there >> > platform work better with JRE since it is so dependent upon it. I >> > dropped it like a hot potato for this reason. I am going to give the >> > netbeans a go but I would like a lot more input on the matter from >> > seasoned RoR developers. If I am missing something please let me know. >> > I am really interested in switching to Ruby for developing enterprise >> > apps. Otherwise I will be forced to go with visual studio wfc. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On 24 August 2010 02:25, ZRiddick <tcr.todd-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Really strange that I cannot find a lot of discussion on a good RoR > IDE.Very strange indeed. If you search the archive, you can order by date: http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk/search?hl=en&group=rubyonrails-talk&q=ide&qt_g=Search+this+group Of recent discussions of the same question, this was a fairly long one. http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk/browse_thread/thread/25a7be28d50fe39b/3b9aae7318aee805?hl=en&q=ide&lnk=ol& -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
2010/8/24 Paweł K <komrath-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>> I think NetBeans 6.9 is a good choice for beginners (hints, checks > syntax etc.), and then they can also move to Terminal+TextMate or any > other "hardcore text editor" ;) > > I think Netbeans 6.8 (or later) is still as good.Netbeans 6.8, for example, has a Cucumber plugin (for those who write Cucumber features). But still I find the terminal a "wonderful IDE", especially when using Terminator + vim. With Terminator, you can have multiple terminals in one window. With terminator, I use vim on one window, script/server on the second window, git on the third and forth windows. I have customized vim configurations that I use to help me with hints, syntax highlighting, e.t.c. --- Edmond Software Developer | Baobab Health Trust (http://www.baobabhealth.org/) | Malawi Cell: +265 999 465 137 | +265 881 234 717 *"Many people doubt open source software and probably don’t realize that there is an alternative… which is just as good.." -- Kevin Scannell*> On 24 Sie, 10:15, Jerome Fillioux <jerome.filli...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > We are using Netbeans since early 6.x versions, and are very happy > > with it. > > RubyMine is also an excellent choice, but you''ll have to buy it. > > For the Eclipse part of the question, there is two solutions : > > - Aptana > > - 3rdRails (not free) > > but I was not please last time I gave them a try. > > > > On the other hand, most of the RoR community is quite fond of Textmate > > or similar code editors. > > > > On 24 août, 03:25, ZRiddick <tcr.t...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Really strange that I cannot find a lot of discussion on a good RoR > > > IDE. Most of what I have pulled up dates to 2008. Also the Eclipse > > > IDE has trouble finding the JRE running on Windows 7 64 bit. Very > > > surprised that Eclipse is not more concerned with having there > > > platform work better with JRE since it is so dependent upon it. I > > > dropped it like a hot potato for this reason. I am going to give the > > > netbeans a go but I would like a lot more input on the matter from > > > seasoned RoR developers. If I am missing something please let me know. > > > I am really interested in switching to Ruby for developing enterprise > > > apps. Otherwise I will be forced to go with visual studio wfc. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> With terminator, I use vim on one window, script/server on the second > window, git on the third and forth windows. I have customized vim > configurations that I use to help me with hints, syntax highlighting, e.t.c.I''ll give a try ;-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On 24 August 2010 14:39, Mauro <mrsanna1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:>> With terminator, I use vim on one window, script/server on the second >> window, git on the third and forth windows. I have customized vim >> configurations that I use to help me with hints, syntax highlighting, e.t.c. > > I''ll give a try ;-) >It has the same options like kde konsole. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
ZRiddick wrote:> Really strange that I cannot find a lot of discussion on a good RoR > IDE. Most of what I have pulled up dates to 2008. Also the Eclipse > IDE has trouble finding the JRE running on Windows 7 64 bit. Very > surprised that Eclipse is not more concerned with having there > platform work better with JRE since it is so dependent upon it. I > dropped it like a hot potato for this reason. I am going to give the > netbeans a go but I would like a lot more input on the matter from > seasoned RoR developers. If I am missing something please let me know. > I am really interested in switching to Ruby for developing enterprise > apps. Otherwise I will be forced to go with visual studio wfc.I''ll give you a hint, in case this hasn''t been clear from previous posts. The reason you don''t find a lot of discussion about IDEs for Ruby on Rails is because most of us don''t use an IDE. The reason is not that IDEs for Ruby on Rails don''t exist, it''s because we don''t use IDEs by choice. I use IDEs for my Java work all the time. Mostly because Java makes it nearly impossible to work without one. My IDE of choice in the Java world is Netbeans. However, not having to use an IDE at all was one of the primary joys of Ruby on Rails, and it''s one of the many things that drew me to the framework. This may sound strange to you, but I promise you I''m not alone in this opinion. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 10:25 PM, ZRiddick <tcr.todd-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Really strange that I cannot find a lot of discussion on a good RoR > IDE. Most of what I have pulled up dates to 2008. Also the Eclipse > IDE has trouble finding the JRE running on Windows 7 64 bit. Very > surprised that Eclipse is not more concerned with having there > platform work better with JRE since it is so dependent upon it. I > dropped it like a hot potato for this reason. I am going to give the > netbeans a go but I would like a lot more input on the matter from > seasoned RoR developers. If I am missing something please let me know. > I am really interested in switching to Ruby for developing enterprise > apps. Otherwise I will be forced to go with visual studio wfc.You put this as if it is a threat for rubyists that you go with MSVS? If you go with that is your problem, not ours. It''s your call, not ours. As Michael said, there has been several threads, and some of them pretty large about IDE''s for RoR, about if they exists, about if they''re necessary, about who uses what, about if VIM is better than Textmate or the other way around, about almost enything on this topic. -- Leonardo Mateo. There''s no place like ~ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I remember some posts about this topic, as I see someone added the links, I''m sure you can also find it. The answer is: depends on your need. Do you want it for free? Easy to use or easy to install? Or fast starting? Netbeans, Eclipse + Aptana plugin, Aptana 3 (standalone) or Textmate are very good choices. If you are using Win, than you can try Scite, it''s very fast. The bigger ones have much more features, but they are much slower. For first steps Scite is simply ideal, all you need is included. I also had problems and I hated Eclipse in the beginning. But take it easy, just see how easy you can add a plugin, and it will work for you. I''m sure you can solve problems with JRE also, maybe you haven''t tried it enough. If you have problems with it, better idea to change win to Linux or Mac, than change Eclipse. And I think there is a plugin, which made to configure Eclipse easily and add more plugins easily - you can find it in sourceforgenet. If you prefer to choose from a list, than Netbeans can be your choice. good luck, gezope On aug. 24, 03:25, ZRiddick <tcr.t...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Really strange that I cannot find a lot of discussion on a good RoR > IDE. Most of what I have pulled up dates to 2008. Also the Eclipse > IDE has trouble finding the JRE running on Windows 7 64 bit. Very > surprised that Eclipse is not more concerned with having there > platform work better with JRE since it is so dependent upon it. I > dropped it like a hot potato for this reason. I am going to give the > netbeans a go but I would like a lot more input on the matter from > seasoned RoR developers. If I am missing something please let me know. > I am really interested in switching to Ruby for developing enterprise > apps. Otherwise I will be forced to go with visual studio wfc.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Thanks all for your help. I must admit part of the purpose of my post was to vent my own ignorance. Your responses are very encouraging. I''m getting better at searching the group itself. Happy learned how to put. LOL But its nice to know there are persons out there to help when needed. Any of you ever play with Komodo? On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 7:37 AM, gezope <gezope-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I remember some posts about this topic, as I see someone added the > links, I''m sure you can also find it. > The answer is: depends on your need. Do you want it for free? Easy to > use or easy to install? Or fast starting? > > Netbeans, Eclipse + Aptana plugin, Aptana 3 (standalone) or Textmate > are very good choices. > > If you are using Win, than you can try Scite, it''s very fast. The > bigger ones have much more features, but they are much slower. For > first steps Scite is simply ideal, all you need is included. > > I also had problems and I hated Eclipse in the beginning. But take it > easy, just see how easy you can add a plugin, and it will work for > you. I''m sure you can solve problems with JRE also, maybe you haven''t > tried it enough. If you have problems with it, better idea to change > win to Linux or Mac, than change Eclipse. And I think there is a > plugin, which made to configure Eclipse easily and add more plugins > easily - you can find it in sourceforgenet. If you prefer to choose > from a list, than Netbeans can be your choice. > > good luck, > gezope > > > > On aug. 24, 03:25, ZRiddick <tcr.t...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Really strange that I cannot find a lot of discussion on a good RoR > > IDE. Most of what I have pulled up dates to 2008. Also the Eclipse > > IDE has trouble finding the JRE running on Windows 7 64 bit. Very > > surprised that Eclipse is not more concerned with having there > > platform work better with JRE since it is so dependent upon it. I > > dropped it like a hot potato for this reason. I am going to give the > > netbeans a go but I would like a lot more input on the matter from > > seasoned RoR developers. If I am missing something please let me know. > > I am really interested in switching to Ruby for developing enterprise > > apps. Otherwise I will be forced to go with visual studio wfc. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org<rubyonrails-talk%2Bunsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- Warm Regards, Todd Weeks tcr.todd-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org 801.814.9084 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Todd Weeks wrote:> Thanks all for your help. I must admit part of the purpose of my post > was to > vent my own ignorance. Your responses are very encouraging. > I''m getting better at searching the group itself. Happy learned how to > put. > LOL But its nice to know there are persons out there to help when > needed. > Any of you ever play with Komodo?Yes! I recommend it highly -- it''s my primary editor for Rails, and indeed for anything that doesn''t need an IDE. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
You will get lots of opinions, but the only way to know for sure is to try them out, and see what works for you. Even then there will be lots of features that are not apparent or exposed at first, so you need to take a bit of time to get to know them before making a decision. I''m currently using Aptana Studio 3 beta, and really like having integrated terminal windows in tabs - I tend to keep one open across the bottom for rails console, run rails under a tabbed terminal, and keep another around for command line stuff. It does also have other tabs (besides , such as a web browser, but for for viewing a Rails app I prefer to use a real browser. Git integration is also done well. RubyMine looks great on the code completion front, and ability to cross reference to the source code in gems, and to documentation - I wouldn''t mind more of that in Aptana, but I''d miss the views too much to switch. Komodo is mor eeditor than IDE IMO, but I only gave it a cursory look. I haven''t tried textmate. I found NetBeans slow and clunky. Your view, and everyone elses, will differ. Go try some. Matt. On Aug 24, 5:10 pm, Marnen Laibow-Koser <li...-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Todd Weeks wrote: > > Thanks all for your help. I must admit part of the purpose of my post > > was to > > vent my own ignorance. Your responses are very encouraging. > > I''m getting better at searching the group itself. Happy learned how to > > put. > > LOL But its nice to know there are persons out there to help when > > needed. > > Any of you ever play with Komodo? > > Yes! I recommend it highly -- it''s my primary editor for Rails, and > indeed for anything that doesn''t need an IDE. > > Best, > -- > Marnen Laibow-Koserhttp://www.marnen.org > mar...-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org > -- > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
MattB wrote:> You will get lots of opinions, but the only way to know for sure is to > try them out, and see what works for you. Even then there will be lots > of features that are not apparent or exposed at first, so you need to > take a bit of time to get to know them before making a decision. > > I''m currently using Aptana Studio 3 beta, and really like having > integrated terminal windows in tabs - I tend to keep one open across > the bottom for rails console, run rails under a tabbed terminal, and > keep another around for command line stuff.I find this nearly useless for Rails. I''d rather use a real terminal program (on Mac OS, that means iTerm).> It does also have other > tabs (besides , such as a web browser, but for for viewing a Rails app > I prefer to use a real browser. > > Git integration is also done well.Haven''t used Aptana in a while. I''ve been very, very impressed with NetBeans'' Git plugin, though.> > RubyMine looks great on the code completion front, and ability to > cross reference to the source code in gems, and to documentation - I > wouldn''t mind more of that in Aptana, but I''d miss the views too much > to switch. > > Komodo is mor eeditor than IDE IMO, but I only gave it a cursory look.That is correct. For Rails, that''s all you need. (There is a Komodo IDE, but it''s something like $250.)> I haven''t tried textmate. I found NetBeans slow and clunky.How recently have you used NetBeans? Since 6.8 or so it''s been an amazingly good IDE (it certainly *used* to be slow and clunky before that). I don''t recommend it (or any IDE) for Rails, but when you need an IDE, NetBeans is your best choice. It has far outstripped Eclipse/Aptana in recent versions.> > Your view, and everyone elses, will differ. Go try some. > > Matt.Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I think I should try Vim or emacs with rails but I don''t know with who I should go with. I tried both and I feel the same... The most people are using vim in ruby community, why? I heard that vim scripting can be replaced with ruby, is this true and that is the reason that the most people are using vim and ruby? Emacs I heard is more powerful than vim, you can even play tetris but the popularity fall in contrast of vim which has grown very much. I know about the editor wars but I really can''t decide and the more opinions I read, the more I am confused... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Johndel Deliyiannis wrote:> I think I should try Vim or emacs with rails but I don''t know with who > I should go with.Why do you want to use either, instead of something like KomodoEdit or TextMate?> I tried both and I feel the same... The most people > are using vim in ruby community, why? I heard that vim scripting can > be replaced with ruby, is this true and that is the reason that the > most people are using vim and ruby?I have no idea. I can''t stand vi, though vim certainly sucks less badly.> > Emacs I heard is more powerful than vim, you can even play tetris but > the popularity fall in contrast of vim which has grown very much. I > know about the editor wars but I really can''t decide and the more > opinions I read, the more I am confused...I like Emacs much better than vi. But I think it''s silly to use a console editor on a GUI box (I don''t like Xemacs or Aquamacs). Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> Why do you want to use either, instead of something like KomodoEdit or > TextMate?1) Textmate is only for mac, I prefer ubuntu :) 2) Textmate doesn''t have real code completion 3) Textmate isn''t good as an editor... it doesn''t have tabs if you don''t use a project and even to move the sidebar, you should do a "hack" to set it up to the right! 4) Vim and Emacs are much more powerful and extendable. Komodoedit... hmmm I don''t know him, I might try it but I doubt it can compare with vim and emacs, this editors are used from programmers many years. I have used all the three and it is clear that Vim and Emacs is the way to go for me, but I can''t decide clearly... I am a bit more for emacs. Why do you think it is silly to use it on a GUI box? :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Johndel Deliyiannis wrote: >> I think I should try Vim or emacs with rails but I don''t know with who >> I should go with.Try the one you''re more familiar with or the one that feels better on your fingertips.> > Why do you want to use either, instead of something like KomodoEdit or > TextMate? > >> I tried both and I feel the same... The most people >> are using vim in ruby community, why? I heard that vim scripting can >> be replaced with ruby, is this true and that is the reason that the >> most people are using vim and ruby? >I use Vim. Mostly because it just feels good for me, with the right plugins I have everything I use on every IDE I''ve used before (that is, code competion, syntax highlighting, code reference, tabs, and a few more). It is highly configurable, and portable (in about 300Kb I have my full ''IDE'' everywhere I want) between platforms, and when you need it on a remote server, it''s a really nice to have. Also, I abuse of the multi buffer edition on one tab. And, yes, you can also use the mouse if you like it to change the buffers size, select text, etc.> I have no idea. I can''t stand vi, though vim certainly sucks less > badly. > >> >> Emacs I heard is more powerful than vim, you can even play tetris but >> the popularity fall in contrast of vim which has grown very much. I >> know about the editor wars but I really can''t decide and the more >> opinions I read, the more I am confused...Do you really wanna play tetris when you''re programming? The power of Emacs has nothing to do with the ability to play tetris on it. Both editors are nice, you have to try them to see which you like the most. I tried Emacs before Vim for rails, and just didn''t feel good to me, maybe because I''m using Vim as the default text editor for Linux for about 9 years.> > I like Emacs much better than vi. But I think it''s silly to use a > console editor on a GUI box (I don''t like Xemacs or Aquamacs). > > Best, > -- > Marnen Laibow-Koser > http://www.marnen.org > marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. > >-- Leonardo Mateo. There''s no place like ~ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Johndel Deliyiannis wrote:>> Why do you want to use either, instead of something like KomodoEdit or >> TextMate?[...]> Komodoedit... hmmm I don''t know him, I might try it but I doubt it can > compare with vim and emacs, this editors are used from programmers > many years.If you don''t know about it, then why are you dismissing it out of hand? Try it!> > I have used all the three and it is clear that Vim and Emacs is the > way to go for me, but I can''t decide clearly... I am a bit more for > emacs. > > Why do you think it is silly to use it on a GUI box? :)Because console editors are great for text-only environments, but are less generally usable than GUI editors. I love Emacs in SSH sessions or for quick edits in the Terminal, but I go nuts very quickly when I have to use it on a GUI box. There are many things that simply work better with a mouse and a menu-driven interface. No console-only editor can give me that, and therefore no console-only editor is suitable to use on a GUI box by my standards. (No, Xemacs is not the answer -- it sucks.) Best, -- Marnen Laibow-koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
This shows the best ruby IDE: http://tinyurl.com/mfbwav -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Leonardo Mateo wrote:> I use Vim. Mostly because it just feels good for me, with the right > plugins I have everything I use on every IDE I''ve used before (that > is, code competion, syntax highlighting, code reference, tabs, and a > few more).As long as Vim uses that damn modal editing (i.e. ''i'' for insert, Escape to exit insert and '':'' for commands) I won''t be switching to it. Before you call me crazy... I understand Vim, and I use it when absolutely necessary. If that''s your thing, then great for you. I''m just saying it''s not for me, so I''ll stick with TextMate. At least until I find something better. However, every time I''ve tried alternatives I just keep coming back to TextMate. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Robert Walker <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Leonardo Mateo wrote: >> I use Vim. Mostly because it just feels good for me, with the right >> plugins I have everything I use on every IDE I''ve used before (that >> is, code competion, syntax highlighting, code reference, tabs, and a >> few more). > > As long as Vim uses that damn modal editing (i.e. ''i'' for insert, Escape > to exit insert and '':'' for commands) I won''t be switching to it.I''m not trying to convince anyone to use Vim, have you read how many times I said "..feels good for you..."? If you don''t like it, then don''t use it. That "damn modal editing" you says is an esential part of Vim. If you don''t like it, then Vim is not for you.> > Before you call me crazy...I wont.> I understand Vim, and I use it when > absolutely necessary. If that''s your thing, then great for you. I''m just > saying it''s not for me, so I''ll stick with TextMate. At least until I > find something better. However, every time I''ve tried alternatives I > just keep coming back to TextMate.Ok, so TextMate is what feels good (or great, or whatever) for you. -- Leonardo Mateo. There''s no place like ~ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
With reference to Aptana terminal tabs for Rails console, server & general command line you wrote:> I find this nearly useless for Rails. I''d rather use a real terminal > program (on Mac OS, that means iTerm).Care to be more specific? A terminal is only as good as the shell you choose, and how you configure it. Everything else is just "window dressing" so to speak! :-) What Rails command line related activity can you perform in iTerm (or any other for that matter) that you can''t in a shell embedded an IDE?> How recently have you used NetBeans?Last week! I just found it too big and bloated for Rails needs compared to Aptana. Those who subscibe to the "an editor is enough" would rightly say the same about Aptana or any other Rails capable IDE. As I made a point of saying at both the beginning and end of my post, the OP needs to try a few out and see what works for him, but since he specifically asked about IDEs. Unfortunately as is often the cae with these subjects, it is already degenerating into a mine is better than yours, IDE vs. Editor, GUI vs Command Line Editor, VI vs EMACS debate, even if not yet an outright flamewar... Matt. On Aug 24, 5:48 pm, Marnen Laibow-Koser <li...-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> MattB wrote: > > You will get lots of opinions, but the only way to know for sure is to > > try them out, and see what works for you. Even then there will be lots > > of features that are not apparent or exposed at first, so you need to > > take a bit of time to get to know them before making a decision. > > > I''m currently using Aptana Studio 3 beta, and really like having > > integrated terminal windows in tabs - I tend to keep one open across > > the bottom for rails console, run rails under a tabbed terminal, and > > keep another around for command line stuff. > > I find this nearly useless for Rails. I''d rather use a real terminal > program (on Mac OS, that means iTerm). > > > It does also have other > > tabs (besides , such as a web browser, but for for viewing a Rails app > > I prefer to use a real browser. > > > Git integration is also done well. > > Haven''t used Aptana in a while. I''ve been very, very impressed with > NetBeans'' Git plugin, though. > > > > > RubyMine looks great on the code completion front, and ability to > > cross reference to the source code in gems, and to documentation - I > > wouldn''t mind more of that in Aptana, but I''d miss the views too much > > to switch. > > > Komodo is mor eeditor than IDE IMO, but I only gave it a cursory look. > > That is correct. For Rails, that''s all you need. (There is a Komodo > IDE, but it''s something like $250.) > > > I haven''t tried textmate. I found NetBeans slow and clunky. > > How recently have you used NetBeans? Since 6.8 or so it''s been an > amazingly good IDE (it certainly *used* to be slow and clunky before > that). I don''t recommend it (or any IDE) for Rails, but when you need > an IDE, NetBeans is your best choice. It has far outstripped > Eclipse/Aptana in recent versions. > > > > > Your view, and everyone elses, will differ. Go try some. > > > Matt. > > Best, > -- > Marnen Laibow-Koserhttp://www.marnen.org > mar...-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org > -- > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
MattB wrote:> With reference to Aptana terminal tabs for Rails console, server & > general command line you wrote: > >> I find this nearly useless for Rails. I''d rather use a real terminal >> program (on Mac OS, that means iTerm). > > Care to be more specific? A terminal is only as good as the shell you > choose, and how you configure it. Everything else is just "window > dressing" so to speak! :-) What Rails command line related activity > can you perform in iTerm (or any other for that matter) that you can''t > in a shell embedded an IDE?None. I just haven''t found the IDE shells to be very pleasant to use.> >> How recently have you used NetBeans? > > Last week! I just found it too big and bloated for Rails needsI agree with that. I just don''t agree that it''s slow and clunky in general, at least on Mac OS.> compared to Aptana. Those who subscibe to the "an editor is enough" > would rightly say the same about Aptana or any other Rails capable > IDE.Right.> > As I made a point of saying at both the beginning and end of my post, > the OP needs to try a few out and see what works for him, but since he > specifically asked about IDEs.But the way he asked, it was clear that he assumed one was required.> Unfortunately as is often the cae with > these subjects, it is already degenerating into a mine is better than > yours, IDE vs. Editor, GUI vs Command Line Editor, VI vs EMACS debate, > even if not yet an outright flamewar...My editor *is* better than yours, at least for me. :) Seriously, I used to use Aptana for Rails, but stopped when I realized I was only using it as an editor. Try working in Rails without an IDE if you haven''t already. I believe you will be happier.> > Matt.Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org Sent from my iPhone -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Wednesday 25 August 2010, Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:> >> How recently have you used NetBeans? > > > > Last week! I just found it too big and bloated for Rails needs > > I agree with that. I just don''t agree that it''s slow and clunky in > general, at least on Mac OS.This seems like the perfect time to lodge my complaints ;-) I''ve been using NetBeans 6.9 for a couple of weeks now and it seems to be disintegrating over time. At some point it became convinced that I''m working with Rails 2.x, which I am not, and now tries to run non- existing script/server. In new files, NetBeans''s own templates are not expanded. I never found a way to make the debugger work with Rails 3 and bundler. And, worst of all, at times the editor completely freezes for from 30 secs to over a minute. For none of these I''ve found a way to cure it. Particularly the freezing problem seems already to have been reported as a bug more than 50 times. Yes, I''m still using NetBeans. The alternatives (on Linux) such as Emacs and Eclipse/Aptana are no more attractive and I''ve used them both before. Although I more or less know Emacs for 20 years, its features beyond editing are too arcane for me. Aptana, particularly RadRails/Studio for Rails 3, had still many problems of their own, last time I looked. Michael -- Michael Schuerig mailto:michael-q5aiKMLteq4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org http://www.schuerig.de/michael/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Michael Schuerig wrote:> On Wednesday 25 August 2010, Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote: >> >> How recently have you used NetBeans? >> > >> > Last week! I just found it too big and bloated for Rails needs >> >> I agree with that. I just don''t agree that it''s slow and clunky in >> general, at least on Mac OS. > > This seems like the perfect time to lodge my complaints ;-) > > I''ve been using NetBeans 6.9 for a couple of weeks now and it seems to > be disintegrating over timeYeah, my recollection last time I used it with Rails was that the integration wasn''t terribly good. Oy. [...]> And, worst of all, at times the editor completely freezes for > from 30 secs to over a minute.I have occasionally seen this on Mac OS when I''ve been doing very resource-heavy stuff.> > For none of these I''ve found a way to cure it. Particularly the freezing > problem seems already to have been reported as a bug more than 50 times.NetBeans'' core team seem to be very skilled programmers, but often somewhat unresponsive to bug reports. Rather like some other core teams... :)> > Yes, I''m still using NetBeans. The alternatives (on Linux) such as Emacs > and Eclipse/Aptana are no more attractive and I''ve used them both > before.There are other alternatives for Linux. In descending order, I''d recommend KomodoEdit, jEdit, or gEdit. [...]> > Michael > > -- > Michael Schuerig > mailto:michael-q5aiKMLteq4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org > http://www.schuerig.de/michael/Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org Sent from my iPhone -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Netbeans works well, if you''re concerned about the bloat/response simply turn some of the features off. I''ve used Rails for a few years and a basic editor just seems so, well basic. Netbeans isn''t perfect, I don''t use it to run the server or do the tests but for the simple pleasure of jumping between controller method to view just cannot be beat. If you''re on Linux with KDE, Kate works well as a basic editor. Windoze - try Notepad++, very lightweight and easy to use. But in the end, it''s your preference. Find something you''re comfortable with and go with it. On Aug 23, 9:25 pm, ZRiddick <tcr.t...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Really strange that I cannot find a lot of discussion on a good RoR > IDE. Most of what I have pulled up dates to 2008. Also the Eclipse > IDE has trouble finding the JRE running on Windows 7 64 bit. Very > surprised that Eclipse is not more concerned with having there > platform work better with JRE since it is so dependent upon it. I > dropped it like a hot potato for this reason. I am going to give the > netbeans a go but I would like a lot more input on the matter from > seasoned RoR developers. If I am missing something please let me know. > I am really interested in switching to Ruby for developing enterprise > apps. Otherwise I will be forced to go with visual studio wfc.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Bb Serviss wrote:> Netbeans works well, if you''re concerned about the bloat/response > simply turn some of the features off. I''ve used Rails for a few years > and a basic editor just seems so, well basic.Right! What more do you need?> Netbeans isn''t perfect, > I don''t use it to run the server or do the testsThen why bother with it? You''re just using it as a basic editor -- and for that, KomodoEdit blows it out of the water.> but for the simple > pleasure of jumping between controller method to view just cannot be > beat.I''ll agree that that''s convenient, and one of the few things I miss from RadRails. But I don''t miss it that much, particularly when Cmd-Sh-O in Komodo opens any file from a few characters of its name. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
This is discussion has been very helpful to me: I''m learning Rails (and Ruby), so far I''ve primarily been using Emacs and command line. But I also I had given NetBeans (and a couple of other IDEs) a brief try on the off-chance that I was missing out on something that I would like to have. I found that Emacs and shell window works well for the way I work, though. :). I''m using EmacsW32+nXhtml (see: http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/nXhtml/doc/nxhtml.html#summary) and a shell window. :) On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 15:55, Marnen Laibow-Koser <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Because console editors are great for text-only environments, but are > less generally usable than GUI editors. I love Emacs in SSH sessions or > for quick edits in the Terminal, but I go nuts very quickly when I have > to use it on a GUI box. There are many things that simply work better > with a mouse and a menu-driven interface. No console-only editor can > give me that, and therefore no console-only editor is suitable to use on > a GUI box by my standards. (No, Xemacs is not the answer -- it sucks.)Interesting. I''m of almost opposite mind: I prefer to use emacs on a GUI platform; I hop back-and-forth between being in a "keyboard only" mode when doing stuff in emacs to "mousing, mouse cut-n-paste, etc." mode when I flip to some other window. If I have to use emacs in the non-gui environment, I feel locked in, and if it goes on for very long, I''ll find some way to switch to a gui environment to do the work. On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 22:23, Agoofin <thebserviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I don''t use it to run the server or do the tests but for the simple > pleasure of jumping between controller method to view just cannot be > beat.Indeed. That was one thing I was looking for when I trying out NetBeans. I was finding that the way the files are arranged for a Rails application and switching amongst them in dired was painful. On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 22:23, Agoofin <thebserviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Windoze - try Notepad++, very lightweight and easy to use.A good recommendation. Its lightweight, follows the windows paradigm, has syntax highlighting that is easily configurable. It tempted me away from Emacs for a while. :) On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 22:23, Agoofin <thebserviss-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> But in the end, it''s your preference. Find something you''re comfortable with and go with it.Very true. Requires a fair bit of investment of time, also. Trying out new IDEs, editors, tools, working in them long enough to determine whether they help or hinder the way you work, and then learning the one you like more thoroughly. -- As I write this, I''m trying to recall what I didn''t like about NetBeans, and realizing I can''t explain precisely, which makes me wonder if I should try it again more objectively. :) Iain -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Iain Davis wrote:> This is discussion has been very helpful to me: I''m learning Rails > (and Ruby), so far I''ve primarily been using Emacs and command line. > But I also I had given NetBeans (and a couple of other IDEs) a brief > try on the off-chance that I was missing out on something that I would > like to have. > > I found that Emacs and shell window works well for the way I work, > though. :). I''m using EmacsW32+nXhtml (see: > http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/nXhtml/doc/nxhtml.html#summary) and a > shell window. :) > > On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 15:55, Marnen Laibow-Koser > <lists-fsXkhYbjdPsEEoCn2XhGlw@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> Because console editors are great for text-only environments, but are >> less generally usable than GUI editors. �I love Emacs in SSH sessions or >> for quick edits in the Terminal, but I go nuts very quickly when I have >> to use it on a GUI box. �There are many things that simply work better >> with a mouse and a menu-driven interface. �No console-only editor can >> give me that, and therefore no console-only editor is suitable to use on >> a GUI box by my standards. �(No, Xemacs is not the answer -- it sucks.) > > Interesting. I''m of almost opposite mind:No, I don''t really think you are. See below.> I prefer to use emacs on a > GUI platform; I hop back-and-forth between being in a "keyboard only" > mode when doing stuff in emacs to "mousing, mouse cut-n-paste, etc." > mode when I flip to some other window. If I have to use emacs in the > non-gui environment, I feel locked in, and if it goes on for very > long, I''ll find some way to switch to a gui environment to do the > work.Exactly! I prefer working in a graphical environment as well. But my point was that in a graphical environment, it makes more sense to use an editor that''s been *designed* for a graphical environment -- in other words, not Emacs, but a good GUI editor like KomodoEdit. I feel locked in when I use Emacs in a console environment, but there''s nothing I can really do about it. I feel even more locked in when I use (console) Emacs in a GUI environment, because I know there are other editors where I could use the mouse. Your attitude is similar enough to mine, if I understand it correctly, that I suspect if you try a good graphical editor like KomodoEdit or jEdit, you won''t go back to Emacs in GUI situations. It never ceases to amaze me that people seem to think the only options are NetBeans, Eclipse/Aptana, TextMate, vi, and Emacs. There are *lots* of good editors out there... Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> Your attitude is similar enough to mine, if I understand it correctly, > that I suspect if you try a good graphical editor like KomodoEdit or > jEdit, you won''t go back to Emacs in GUI situations.*grin*. Certainly possible. I think I tried KomodoEdit, but that was long while ago, who knows how I''d feel about it now. Needs change, and products change as well. :)> It never ceases to amaze me that people seem to think the only options > are NetBeans, Eclipse/Aptana, TextMate, vi, and Emacs. There are *lots* > of good editors out there...There are days when it seems like there is as many as there are programmers. Maybe more. :) It could be that I keep coming back to Emacs because it seems the most easily bent to "latest new thing I''m learning or working with" without relearning the basics. In part because, it has been around a very long time so there is plenty of tech notes, stuff to download to enhance it, etc. For instance, last year I was doing some stuff in OCAML, a brief search turned up Tuareg-mode for editing and executing OCAML files. :) I also will switch editors depending which things I''m actually working on...there was a while that I was juggling two different projects, one that I wrote code in MSVC for, and the other I was doing stuff in Emacs. :) Hmm. I wonder what support NetBeans has for latex. Time for a web search. Iain -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> Aptana, particularly > RadRails/Studio for Rails 3, had still many problems of their own, last > time I looked.If that was Aptana Studio 2, it might be worth another look at Studio 3 beta. Works great for me with Rails 3. I''m on a Mac though, so can''t comment on how it looks or behaves under Linux. Your own requirements are ultimately what counts though, so it may not be the one for you, and there are plenty of other choices, but if NetBeans isn''t doing it for you... On Aug 25, 12:29 am, Michael Schuerig <mich...-q5aiKMLteq4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Wednesday 25 August 2010, Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote: > > > >> How recently have you used NetBeans? > > > > Last week! I just found it too big and bloated for Rails needs > > > I agree with that. I just don''t agree that it''s slow and clunky in > > general, at least on Mac OS. > > This seems like the perfect time to lodge my complaints ;-) > > I''ve been using NetBeans 6.9 for a couple of weeks now and it seems to > be disintegrating over time. At some point it became convinced that I''m > working with Rails 2.x, which I am not, and now tries to run non- > existing script/server. In new files, NetBeans''s own templates are not > expanded. I never found a way to make the debugger work with Rails 3 and > bundler. And, worst of all, at times the editor completely freezes for > from 30 secs to over a minute. > > For none of these I''ve found a way to cure it. Particularly the freezing > problem seems already to have been reported as a bug more than 50 times. > > Yes, I''m still using NetBeans. The alternatives (on Linux) such as Emacs > and Eclipse/Aptana are no more attractive and I''ve used them both > before. Although I more or less know Emacs for 20 years, its features > beyond editing are too arcane for me. Aptana, particularly > RadRails/Studio for Rails 3, had still many problems of their own, last > time I looked. > > Michael > > -- > Michael Schuerig > mailto:mich...-q5aiKMLteq5BV9CJdY2HSA@public.gmane.org://www.schuerig.de/michael/-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Sorry to jump in mid-stream here, but....> On Aug 25, 12:29 am, Michael Schuerig <mich...-q5aiKMLteq4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org> wrote:>> > > Last week! I just found it too big and bloated for Rails needsMake sure you''re using the Ruby-only version of NB unless you really need the other stuff. There''s definitely a difference. My first experience with NB was with the ''fulll'' package and it was very disappointing. The Ruby-only version was a big improvement. Best regards, Bill -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Wednesday 25 August 2010, Bill Walton wrote:> Sorry to jump in mid-stream here, but.... > > > On Aug 25, 12:29 am, Michael Schuerig <mich...-q5aiKMLteq4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> > > Last week! I just found it too big and bloated for Rails needs > > Make sure you''re using the Ruby-only version of NB unless you really > need the other stuff. There''s definitely a difference. My first > experience with NB was with the ''fulll'' package and it was very > disappointing. The Ruby-only version was a big improvement.That''s what I''m using. I''ve had version 6.9 installed with regular updates, but now I''ve installed 6.9.1 and things look slightly better. My ~/.netbeans/6.9 directory has grown to an amazing 856MB, largely consisting of downloaded updates, I reckon. Is there a way to delete the obsolete stuff without losing preferences? Michael -- Michael Schuerig mailto:michael-q5aiKMLteq4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org http://www.schuerig.de/michael/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Michael Schuerig <michael-q5aiKMLteq4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org> wrote:> My ~/.netbeans/6.9 directory has grown to an amazing 856MB, largely > consisting of downloaded updates, I reckon.Ouch. OTOH, that''s like $0.10 worth of storage now, right?> Is there a way to delete the obsolete stuff without losing preferences?That''s a good question and I don''t know the answer. Be worth asking on the NB list. Personally, I don''t let any software do automatic updates anymore. Best regards, Bill -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On 25 August 2010 20:08, Bill Walton <bwalton.im-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Sorry to jump in mid-stream here, but.... > >> On Aug 25, 12:29 am, Michael Schuerig <mich...-q5aiKMLteq4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org> wrote: > >>> > > Last week! I just found it too big and bloated for Rails needs > > Make sure you''re using the Ruby-only version of NB unless you really > need the other stuff.The "Ruby" version is very bloated - including Glassfish and a whole bunch of stuff you probably don''t need. Install the bare version (although I personally go for the PHP version as it''s the smallest of the packaged downloads, and I do the occasional bit of PHP) and add the "Ruby and Rails" plugin. And yes, the debugging works fine (apart from "break on error"); conditional breakpoints, watches, variable tracking, immediate evaluation (that one is a bit clunky though...); and has done since the first time I tried it in Jan 2009. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On 25 August 2010 22:20, Michael Pavling <pavling-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> and has done since the first time I tried it in Jan 2009.Correction, it was April when I got debugging working :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Wednesday 25 August 2010, Bill Walton wrote:> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Michael Schuerig<michael-q5aiKMLteq4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > My ~/.netbeans/6.9 directory has grown to an amazing 856MB, largely > > consisting of downloaded updates, I reckon. > > Ouch. OTOH, that''s like $0.10 worth of storage now, right?Yeah, and I was celebrating too early anyway. The freezes are still there. The problem with the obsolete files is not so much the space they''re taking up. They are in my backup set as well, meaning that they are wasting space in other places and have to be checked for changes each time I make a backup (i.e., often). Michael -- Michael Schuerig mailto:michael-q5aiKMLteq4b1SvskN2V4Q@public.gmane.org http://www.schuerig.de/michael/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Michael Pavling wrote:> On 25 August 2010 22:20, Michael Pavling <pavling-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> and has done since the first time I tried it in Jan 2009. > > Correction, it was April when I got debugging working :-)Good to know. Maybe the problem had to do with using JRuby on this project (which is a Swing/Monkeybars app, so I can''t use MRI). Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org Sent from my iPhone -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I do really recommend checking out RubyMine from JetBrains - it is designed specificaly for Ruby/Rails. Just give it a try and You will search no longer On Aug 24, 3:25 am, ZRiddick <tcr.t...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Really strange that I cannot find a lot of discussion on a good RoR > IDE. Most of what I have pulled up dates to 2008. Also the Eclipse > IDE has trouble finding the JRE running on Windows 7 64 bit. Very > surprised that Eclipse is not more concerned with having there > platform work better with JRE since it is so dependent upon it. I > dropped it like a hot potato for this reason. I am going to give the > netbeans a go but I would like a lot more input on the matter from > seasoned RoR developers. If I am missing something please let me know. > I am really interested in switching to Ruby for developing enterprise > apps. Otherwise I will be forced to go with visual studio wfc.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 5:15 AM, Mauro <mrsanna1-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I develop under linux that doesn''t have textmate. > I''m using netbeans and I think it is a complete ide for develop rails apps. > >Thought I''d chime in here. Although I use mac+textmate [1] now, earlier I used gEdit under Ubuntu. You can pimp it out to be like TM by following these instructions: http://grigio.org/pimp_my_gedit_was_textmate_linux Cheers, Ed [1] Got the mac only to use textmate with RoR work. Ed Howland http://greenprogrammer.wordpress.com http://twitter.com/ed_howland -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Ed Howland <ed.howland-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> [1] Got the mac only to use textmate with RoR work.So you got yourself a $3500 text editor? Congrats. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I think it is deplorable that there aren''t any good [1] Ruby IDEs out there. Python comes with one (Idle). [1] By good I mean free/open source and best of breed. Rewriting the Python description of IDLE: "coded in 100% pure Ruby, using the tkinter GUI toolkit cross-platform: works on Windows and Unix multi-window text editor with multiple undo, Ruby colorizing and many other features, e.g. smart indent and call tips Ruby shell window (a.k.a. interactive interpreter) debugger (not complete, but you can set breakpoints, view and step)" It seems to me we have all these pieces already. Wirble, ruby-debug, window library wrappers. It should be so good, X-Platform that it should ship with the basic Ruby distribution (like rubygems does now w/1.9). Or it could ship as a gem. Other features I''d like. RVM and Bundler support. Rails/Sinatra colorizing*, code completion. (I don''t like tips or hints - hated BBedit for that reason). *extensible with snippets/bundles. Cheers, Ed Ed Howland http://greenprogrammer.wordpress.com http://twitter.com/ed_howland -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Greg Donald <gdonald-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Ed Howland <ed.howland-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> [1] Got the mac only to use textmate with RoR work. > > So you got yourself a $3500 text editor? Congrats. > > > -- > Greg Donald > destiney.com | gregdonald.com >Yes! And I''ll never go back. :) Seriously, I wanted to add a few items to my wish list for a Pure Ruby IDE: * Access to Rake tasks (with ability to set environment (production, test) * RSpec and Cucumber aware/runners * Generators (Rails/RSpec/Cucumber others) * Code/Object inspectors - tied to the file (in the gem) where defined. * Code completion on require ''gemname''. * generate a new project file (rails/sinatra app, gem or standalone). * integrate with git (or swappable to svn, etc with API) * (optional) DB inspector (like phpMyAdmin). Customizable by code snippets/bundles written in Ruby. Not limited to Ruby. Colorize/Syntax completion HTML/CSS/Javascript/ERb/HAML/SASS/SQL. And while were at it: Integrate with Johnson to run/debug JS. Cheers, Ed Ed Howland http://greenprogrammer.wordpress.com http://twitter.com/ed_howland -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Ed Howland <ed.howland-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:>> So you got yourself a $3500 text editor? Congrats. > > Yes! And I''ll never go back. :)I say the same thing about Emacs. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I feel that the whole community is supporting mac and textmate but I found that this is a problem. We should use cross platform tools if we want more people to try rails. All the screencasts I have seen are using with textmate, for example how easy it is to setup an autotest without growl, rspec without output from textmate etc.? How do you do that with other editors, like komodoedit? On 27 Αύγ, 02:13, Greg Donald <gdon...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Ed Howland <ed.howl...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> So you got yourself a $3500 text editor? Congrats. > > > Yes! And I''ll never go back. :) > > I say the same thing about Emacs. > > -- > Greg Donald > destiney.com | gregdonald.com-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Johndel Deliyiannis wrote:> I feel that the whole community is supporting mac and textmate but I > found that this is a problem. We should use cross platform tools if we > want more people to try rails. All the screencasts I have seen are > using with textmate, for example how easy it is to setup an autotest > without growl, rspec without output from textmate etc.? How do you do > that with other editors, like komodoedit?You don''t. You use the shell like God meant you to. :D I''ve said it before and I''ll say it again: Rails doesn''t need an IDE. For Rails, your editor should just be a project-aware editor, not an editor/shell/VCS manager/godknowswhatelse. Save the IDEs for frameworks that need them. Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I recommend Rubymine without any hesitation. Well worth the money. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Well, here we have it, everyone has their favorite and if it makes you more productive and your development time more enjoyable, good on you. Personally, I think diversity is a good thing. I for one don''t really like all-in-one IDEs, other people do. Linux people generally already have a favorite editor before they come to RoR and are happy they can just keep on using it. TextMate on the Mac is a really nice editor, but there are other valid choices as well. On Windows, you also have plenty of choices. If you want Textmate on Windows, buy e-TextEditor: it works the same, it almost looks the same and it uses the same bundles as TextMate does. If you''d rather go with something else you''re already used to, by all means, go for it. No one is touting any editor as being "the editor for HTML & CSS", "the editor for Javascript development" or "the editor for PHP development", so why would there need to be one for RoR development? Am I willing to spend money on a Mac (which is far less expensive than $3500 btw)? Yes. Is it because of TextMate... hardly. It''s because working on a Mac makes me a happy programmer and provides me with an OS and application suite that feels solid and intuitive to me, i.e. a Mac makes me more productive. Being productive leads to nice applications which hopefully lead to a solid revenue for the company I work for. Do I get the same feeling on another platform? No. Is this a personal preference? Yes. Should it matter to someone else what I''m spending my hard earned money on? I don''t think so. And besides, even if I would run Linux, you can be sure I would be buying a powerful, i.e. > $1500, computer anyway. Why? Because I don''t like waiting, whether that is due to lack of processing power or memory. Do Macs come with a premium in terms of specs compared to what you can get with a self-assembled PC? Most probably. Does it feel as a premium when looking at a Mac as a whole, i.e. hardware, OS and applications? Not at all. On 27 Aug 2010, at 01:21, Yiannis wrote:> I feel that the whole community is supporting mac and textmate but I > found that this is a problem. We should use cross platform tools if we > want more people to try rails. All the screencasts I have seen are > using with textmate, for example how easy it is to setup an autotest > without growl, rspec without output from textmate etc.? How do you do > that with other editors, like komodoedit? > >>>> So you got yourself a $3500 text editor? Congrats. >> >>> Yes! And I''ll never go back. :) >> >> I say the same thing about Emacs.Best regards Peter De Berdt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Peter makes very good points. Thanks for the wrap-up. (And I was just being tongue-in-cheek about the my reasons for getting a Mac.) Yiannis has a valid point too. There should be a nice X-Platform IDE that ships with Ruby core or is at least considered the de-facto standard. Some people just take to a language if it comes with a nice environment to work in. Eclipse for Java, VS for C++. Just a personal choice, but one that should be available, and might attract more developers. I think there is a golden opportunity here. Almost all the pieces exist to create a community developed IDE. Perhaps limited in scope at first, but extensible. There is the TKText widget for the editor. guirb [1] for the irb shell, and we can link to ruby-debug-ide for debugging support. I think we have to figure out syntax colorizing, and code-completion. Does anyone know of a tabbed window widget for Tk? Also, is it possible to just eval Tk directly as a string? Then additonal widgets could be added at runtime. [1] http://github.com/martindemello/guirb.git Cheers, Ed Ed Howland http://greenprogrammer.wordpress.com http://twitter.com/ed_howland On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 4:49 AM, Peter De Berdt <peter.de.berdt-LPO8gxj9N8aZIoH1IeqzKA@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Well, here we have it, everyone has their favorite and if it makes you more > productive and your development time more enjoyable, good on you. > Personally, I think diversity is a good thing. I for one don''t really like > all-in-one IDEs, other people do. Linux people generally already have a > favorite editor before they come to RoR and are happy they can just keep on > using it. TextMate on the Mac is a really nice editor, but there are other > valid choices as well. On Windows, you also have plenty of choices. If you > want Textmate on Windows, buy e-TextEditor: it works the same, it almost > looks the same and it uses the same bundles as TextMate does. If you''d > rather go with something else you''re already used to, by all means, go for > it. No one is touting any editor as being "the editor for HTML & CSS", "the > editor for Javascript development" or "the editor for PHP development", so > why would there need to be one for RoR development? > Am I willing to spend money on a Mac (which is far less expensive than $3500 > btw)? Yes. Is it because of TextMate... hardly. It''s because working on a > Mac makes me a happy programmer and provides me with an OS and application > suite that feels solid and intuitive to me, i.e. a Mac makes me more > productive. Being productive leads to nice applications which hopefully lead > to a solid revenue for the company I work for. > Do I get the same feeling on another platform? No. Is this a personal > preference? Yes. Should it matter to someone else what I''m spending my hard > earned money on? I don''t think so. > And besides, even if I would run Linux, you can be sure I would be buying a > powerful, i.e. > $1500, computer anyway. Why? Because I don''t like waiting, > whether that is due to lack of processing power or memory. > Do Macs come with a premium in terms of specs compared to what you can get > with a self-assembled PC? Most probably. Does it feel as a premium when > looking at a Mac as a whole, i.e. hardware, OS and applications? Not at all. > On 27 Aug 2010, at 01:21, Yiannis wrote: > > I feel that the whole community is supporting mac and textmate but I > found that this is a problem. We should use cross platform tools if we > want more people to try rails. All the screencasts I have seen are > using with textmate, for example how easy it is to setup an autotest > without growl, rspec without output from textmate etc.? How do you do > that with other editors, like komodoedit? > > So you got yourself a $3500 text editor? Congrats. > > Yes! And I''ll never go back. :) > > I say the same thing about Emacs. > > Best regards > > Peter De Berdt > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en. >-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Ed Howland <ed.howland-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Some people just take to a language if it comes with a nice > environment to work in.You mean like a bash prompt on Linux? -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Ed Howland wrote:> Peter makes very good points. Thanks for the wrap-up. (And I was just > being tongue-in-cheek about the my reasons for getting a Mac.) > > Yiannis has a valid point too. There should be a nice X-Platform IDE > that ships with Ruby coreI''d be curious to see what the Ruby community could come up with. I do like the idea of something like IDLE that''s actually *designed for* and *benefits* typical Ruby projects. (I don''t dislike IDEs in general, and I''m even using NetBeans for a JRuby/Monkeybars/Swing project, and loving it. I just believe that IDEs are completely inappropriate for *Rails*.)> or is at least considered the de-facto > standard.Why?> Some people just take to a language if it comes with a nice > environment to work in.A good OS, a good text editor, and a good terminal emulator make up a *very* nice environment. Not everything needs an IDE.> Eclipse for Java,What? No. Eclipse doesn''t come with Java, it''s not as nice as NetBeans, and in fact Sun is behind NetBeans. Analogy FAIL. :)> VS for C++.Is that really an advantage? [...]> I think there is a golden opportunity here. Almost all the pieces > exist to create a community developed IDE. Perhaps limited in scope at > first, but extensible.No one is stopping you! I for one will be very, very interested to see what you come up with.> > There is the TKText widget for the editor. guirb [1] for the irb > shell, and we can link to ruby-debug-ide for debugging support. > > I think we have to figure out syntax colorizing, and code-completion. > Does anyone know of a tabbed window widget for Tk? > > Also, is it possible to just eval Tk directly as a string? Then > additonal widgets could be added at runtime.Please, not Tk. The Ruby API is apparently awful, and the resulting applications tend to be really ugly. This is probably a good candidate for Swing/Monkeybars, or maybe wx.> > > [1] http://github.com/martindemello/guirb.git >Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> Ed Howland wrote: >> Yiannis has a valid point too. There should be a nice X-Platform IDE >> that ships with Ruby coreMarnen Laibow-Koser wrote:> I''d be curious to see what the Ruby community could come up with. I do > like the idea of something like IDLE that''s actually *designed for* and > *benefits* typical Ruby projects.I''d love to see the result of such a project. Can it be finished by yesterday? :). I''d volunteer to help, but I''m too new to Ruby to actually be helpful. :)> Ed Howland wrote: > Some people just take to a language if it comes with a nice > environment to work in.Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:> A good OS, a good text editor, and a good terminal emulator make up a > *very* nice environment. Not everything needs an IDE.It does, but it doesn''t appeal to the audience that Ed may be thinking of. That audience is going to be drawn in much more quickly if they can download a single package that a) includes both ruby and an IDE (a low-footprint one similar to IDLE will do), b) does not require any configuration c) does not require installation of other products either before or after installation of the package to get started. That is, I should be able to download, run an installer, click on a icon, and starting typing ruby code into an editor that can execute the ruby code. :) Python is very accessible that way. I had a professor in college who is a big fan of Python, he''d use it for teaching in many of his courses. The ability to download a single installer, run it, and get going in IDLE made that possible. Iain -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Iain Davis wrote: [...]> It does, but it doesn''t appeal to the audience that Ed may be thinking > of. That audience is going to be drawn in much more quickly if they > can download a single package that a) includes both ruby and an IDE (a > low-footprint one similar to IDLE will do), b) does not require any > configuration c) does not require installation of other products > either before or after installation of the package to get started. > > That is, I should be able to download, run an installer, click on a > icon, and starting typing ruby code into an editor that can execute > the ruby code. :)You can do that already. irb comes standard, and you can use any text editor for files. If you want to run scripts, "ruby my_script.rb" will do fine. Where''s the problem?> > Python is very accessible that way. I had a professor in college who > is a big fan of Python, he''d use it for teaching in many of his > courses. The ability to download a single installer, run it, and get > going in IDLE made that possible.Again: you can do this already. You already have a text editor and a shell suitable for the purpose. Just as with Python, the only installation necessary is the interpreter and standard library.> > IainBest, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Iain Davis > It does, but it doesn''t appeal to the audience that Ed may be thinking> of. That audience is going to be drawn in much more quickly if they > can download a single package that a) includes both ruby and an IDE (a > low-footprint one similar to IDLE will do), b) does not require any > configuration c) does not require installation of other products > either before or after installation of the package to get started. > > That is, I should be able to download, run an installer, click on a > icon, and starting typing ruby code into an editor that can execute > the ruby code. :) > > Python is very accessible that way. I had a professor in college who > is a big fan of Python, he''d use it for teaching in many of his > courses. The ability to download a single installer, run it, and get > going in IDLE made that possible. > > Iain >I agree with Iain, here. I''m not trying to preach to the converted. Or to further fan the flames in the editor/IDE wars. But lot''s of universities have settled on Python for just that reason: jump in simplicity. I think that irb is nice. wirble even nicer. ruby-debug is great. But these are all separate tools that you have to install (except for irb). And I agree with Iain that it should have a low footprint. I checked out arcadia, but it blew on a missing (non-obvious) dependency But it sounds like it might fit the bill, being X-platform and based on Ruby/Tk. As far as Tk goes. I am not particularly married to any one windowing toolkit. Would wx, gtk or qt be a better fit, and still be X-platform? I think we should target Windows, Linux and Mac. Tk caught my eye because IDLE is written in it (Tkinter) and makes it a breeze to create other desktop type apps in Python. I know this sort of thing has been tried before. Scite, FXruby etc. But since they have fallen (or nearly so) the radar, perhaps a fresh approach is needed. Cheers, Ed Ed Howland http://greenprogrammer.wordpress.com http://twitter.com/ed_howland -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Ed Howland wrote:> On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Iain Davis > It does, but it doesn''t > appeal to the audience that Ed may be thinking >> Python is very accessible that way. I had a professor in college who >> is a big fan of Python, he''d use it for teaching in many of his >> courses. The ability to download a single installer, run it, and get >> going in IDLE made that possible. >> >> Iain >> > > I agree with Iain, here. I''m not trying to preach to the converted. Or > to further fan the flames in the editor/IDE wars. But lot''s of > universities have settled on Python for just that reason: jump in > simplicity.Really? Or is it simply that Python has had longer to get traction than Ruby? Ruby has the same jump-in simplicity as Python -- in fact, it has more, since it''s easier to write working code in Ruby (IMHO -- I can''t seem to get anything done in Python, and I know of other Ruby developers who feel similarly). Do you know of anyone who *actually* chose Python over Ruby based solely (or mostly) on the presence of IDLE? Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Ed Howland wrote:>[...]> I think that irb is nice. wirble even nicer. ruby-debug is great. But > these are all separate tools that you have to install (except for > irb).I''ve never used Wirble as far as I recall. ruby-debug is *one* gem. Where''s the big barrier? Best, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> Iain Davis wrote: >> That is, I should be able to download, run an installer, click on a >> icon, and starting typing ruby code into an editor that can execute >> the ruby code. :)Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:> You can do that already. irb comes standard, and you can use any text > editor for files. If you want to run scripts, "ruby my_script.rb" will > do fine. Where''s the problem?Not quite the same. irb can execute code, but (at least I believe this to be true, I''m still new around here...) it isn''t an editor. Yes, you can edit code in a text editor, and execute code from the command line...but that doesn''t fulfill the criteria. There''s still going to be folks that aren''t going to be interested in a product where they have to go to the command-line/shell to start using the product. The idea isn''t even part of their world-view, even if they have a vague notion of what a shell is. I switch back and forth across the GUI/shell dividing line pretty frequently, but that sort of thing was a complete mystery to most of the people I''ve worked with in the past. On occasion, when we had projects that there just wasn''t GUI tools for, I had do some hand-holding through those portions of the project. My own preference right now for Ruby/Rails is Emacs+shell, but I''ve worked with folks for whom that''d be an exercise in frustration. Both come from an entirely different world than the one they know. I think the question to ask is: As Rubyists, what do we want them to learn? Ruby. So everything else [installation, editing, execution, debugging] should be provided in a form familiar to the target audience and arranged so that it is transparent/smooth. Whatever the solution (IDE or some other clever idea) it should follow the conventions of the platform/OS it is being installed/used on. Absolutely nothing wrong with Shell+Favorite text editor. That''s a route I go often. For me, it is the fastest route to producing code, because I already know that environment. Eclipse was a frustration to me, because I needed to be writing code (Java at the time), but instead I was spending the time learning Eclipse. Eventually, I''ll have to admit the bias that created and give Eclipse another try. :) However, the combination of tools that I find familiar and comforting, could be an exercise in frustration for someone else. For instance, someone very familiar with Eclipse would be much happier learning Ruby on that platform (provided the platform supports Ruby). It is frustrating to have X to be your goal, and have to slog through Y and Z. I admit, it may not be possible to provide comfortable and familiar tools to every potential Rubyist. On the other hand, there''s no reason not to try. If a new IDE brings in another segment of the audience, there''s that many more folks using and a few them helping to improve Ruby. We all benefit from an influx of new ideas from a segment of the population previously unrepresented. Okay, I''ll stop flogging this horse, I already have a far longer message than necessary. :) Iain -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
> As far as Tk goes. I am not particularly married to any one windowing > toolkit. Would wx, gtk or qt be a better fit, and still be X-platform? > I think we should target Windows, Linux and Mac. Tk caught my eye > because IDLE is written in it (Tkinter) and makes it a breeze to > create other desktop type apps in Python.I''ve not had experience with Tk, gtk, or qt. I will say I''ve used wxWidgetsC++ in the past and I was impressed by it. I don''t know if wxRuby carries with it the same qualities as its C++ counterpart, though. But this discussion makes me interested in giving it a spin. :) Iain -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
Iain Davis wrote:>> Iain Davis wrote: >>> That is, I should be able to download, run an installer, click on a >>> icon, and starting typing ruby code into an editor that can execute >>> the ruby code. :) > > Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote: >> You can do that already. �irb comes standard, and you can use any text >> editor for files. �If you want to run scripts, "ruby my_script.rb" will >> do fine. �Where''s the problem? > > Not quite the same. irb can execute code, but (at least I believe this > to be true, I''m still new around here...) it isn''t an editor.No, it isn''t. You said, though, that you wanted something where you could type code in and execute it...you got it in irb.> Yes, you > can edit code in a text editor, and execute code from the command > line...but that doesn''t fulfill the criteria. >Why on earth would you want the editor and interactive environment to be the same? That''s just confusing.> There''s still going to be folks that aren''t going to be interested in > a product where they have to go to the command-line/shell to start > using the product.For end-user software, sure. But for programming?!? This is where I start saying that if they''re that lazy, they shouldn''t be programming.> The idea isn''t even part of their world-view,They can learn.> even > if they have a vague notion of what a shell is. >Anyone who intends to program (outside specialized environments like Mathematica) needs to get comfortable at the command line. Period.> I switch back and forth across the GUI/shell dividing line pretty > frequently, but that sort of thing was a complete mystery to most of > the people I''ve worked with in the past.Were these people programmers? If so, what was the context? [...]> My own preference right now for Ruby/Rails is Emacs+shell, but I''ve > worked with folks for whom that''d be an exercise in frustration.If the Emacs part is the frustration, they can find another editor. If the shell part is the frustration, then they shouldn''t be programming. If they can write arcane Ruby commands, then they should be able to write arcane shell commands as well.> Both > come from an entirely different world than the one they know.And how would an IDE make it any better? You''d still have to write the same Ruby code, and you''d still have to run the same shell commands; it''s just that the shell window would be in the IDE instead of being governed by a separate application. Where''s the advantage?> > I think the question to ask is: As Rubyists, what do we want them to > learn? Ruby. > > So everything else [installation, editing, execution, debugging] > should be provided in a form familiar to the target audienceThe target audience is multifaceted. Therefore, only the basic tools should be provided by default, and other tools should be available as necessary to increase the feeling of familiarity.> and > arranged so that it is transparent/smooth.Ruby installation is plenty transparent. So is installing the editor or IDE of your choice. You are postulating a nonexistent problem, I think.> Whatever the solution (IDE > or some other clever idea) it should follow the conventions of the > platform/OS it is being installed/used on.Right. Plenty of editors and IDEs already do that.> > Absolutely nothing wrong with Shell+Favorite text editor. That''s a > route I go often. For me, it is the fastest route to producing code, > because I already know that environment. Eclipse was a frustration to > me, because I needed to be writing code (Java at the time), but > instead I was spending the time learning Eclipse.That''s not fair. Any tool has its learning curve (for the record, I like NetBeans a lot better than Eclipse).> Eventually, I''ll > have to admit the bias that created and give Eclipse another try. :) > > However, the combination of tools that I find familiar and comforting, > could be an exercise in frustration for someone else.Then they don''t have to use it. Why force the issue by bundling unnecessary tools?> For instance, > someone very familiar with Eclipse would be much happier learning Ruby > on that platform (provided the platform supports Ruby).It does. But they''d be making a mistake if they did so. No one should ever use an IDE to learn a new language, unless (as with Cocoa or some Java frameworks) the framework being used is so heavy that it requires the IDE to save the user from boilerplate. This is not the case with Ruby or Rails. IDEs are tools, not crutches -- that is, they are for automating things you do understand, not for preventing you from learning things you don''t. Most of the people who are addicted to IDEs seem to use them as crutches. This is not a behavior we should encourage in the Ruby community or anywhere else. (In other words, the people who most want IDEs are probably the people who most need not to be using them.)> It is > frustrating to have X to be your goal, and have to slog through Y and > Z.Frustrating, but also life. And Ruby lowers the bar nicely. Why should I have to learn a particular IDE to learn Ruby?> > I admit, it may not be possible to provide comfortable and familiar > tools to every potential Rubyist. On the other hand, there''s no reason > not to try.If you want to, go ahead. I think it''s interesting, but perhaps a waste of effort. OTOH, a new project is never a bad thing.> If a new IDE brings in another segment of the audience, > there''s that many more folks using and a few them helping to improve > Ruby.No. The sort of folks we want in the Ruby community are not the sort of folks who would hold off on using the language because it doesn''t come with its own IDE.> We all benefit from an influx of new ideas from a segment of the > population previously unrepresented.Why are they unrepresented?> > Okay, I''ll stop flogging this horse, I already have a far longer > message than necessary. :) > > IainBest, -- Marnen Laibow-Koser http://www.marnen.org marnen-sbuyVjPbboAdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org Sent from my iPhone -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Iain Davis <iedavis1-MyONv+wJkRE54bBUE1Kujg@public.gmane.org> wrote:>> As far as Tk goes. I am not particularly married to any one windowing >> toolkit. Would wx, gtk or qt be a better fit, and still be X-platform? >> I think we should target Windows, Linux and Mac. Tk caught my eye >> because IDLE is written in it (Tkinter) and makes it a breeze to >> create other desktop type apps in Python. > > I''ve not had experience with Tk, gtk, or qt. I will say I''ve used > wxWidgetsC++ in the past and I was impressed by it. I don''t know if > wxRuby carries with it the same qualities as its C++ counterpart, > though. But this discussion makes me interested in giving it a spin. > :) > > Iain >On that score, I am tending to agree with you. I did a small amount of research into Ruby GUI frameworks. A 2008 survey found Shoes, wxRuby and Ruby-GNOME2 to be the favorites. (The latter being preferred in Japan.) Shoes was the favorite overall. But that was 2008. They each have their pros and cons wrt to portability and native look and feel. Of the 3, wxRuby and Shoes look good to me, with wxRuby being more comprehensive, perhaps. It occurs to me that the IDE (or editor) should be based on a DSL for flexibility and extensibility. Shoes 3 recently dropped and I think it fits the bill. Despite the disappearance of _why_, it seems to be actively being maintained. I think I''ll kick its tires some. Cheers, Ed Ed Howland http://greenprogrammer.wordpress.com http://twitter.com/ed_howland -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
I would have to agree that an IDE is a little bit over the top for Ruby and Rails development. When I was developing on a mac, I used Textmate. It has been often described as emacs for mac. Needless to say, on Linux, I use emacs. I use a nice collection of plugins from http://blog.wyeworks.com/2009/9/11/my-emacs-for-rails that makes it all a lot cooler. In fact, if I were to ever go back to the mac, I would more than likely continue using emacs even on the mac. Auto-complete? Learn the language. -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFF+G/Ez6ZCGd0@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.