If sulog file logging is enabled in /etc/login.defs (shadowing installed!) and su has never been used, a user can set his umask to 0 and then run su. /var/log/sulog will then be created mode 666, which means user can use su to try lots of passwords and then, when done, do something like cat /dev/null > /var/log/sulog and clear out the logfile. Same goes for sudo. Note: everything will still be logged in syslog (unless disabled!) Greetz, Peter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ''Selfishness and separation have led me to . Peter ''Hardbeat'' van Dijk to believe that the world is not my problem . network security consultant I am the world. And you are the world.'' . (yeah, right...) Live - 10.000 years (peace is now) . peter@attic.vuurwerk.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6:25pm up 1 day, 4:22, 5 users, load average: 0.69, 0.22, 0.07 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------