i've released the first beta of my e-book converter-tool. you are invited to throw stones at it (and at me) if you like:> http://jaguarps.com"beta" is a compromise. i developed it on a mac, so that particular version is solid. but "alpha" would be a better label for the status of the windows and linux versions, so if you have one of _those_ machines, and you feel brave... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/attachments/20110606/a64bc474/attachment.html>
It would help your cause if you actually had a pictures of it working or something like that. Otherwise, it looks like some kind of fishing scam. Sorry, no click through for me. On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 11:31 AM, <Bowerbird at aol.com> wrote:> i've released the first beta of my e-book converter-tool. > > you are invited to throw stones at it (and at me) if you like: > > http://jaguarps.com > > "beta" is a compromise. i developed it on a mac, so that > particular version is solid. but "alpha" would be a better > label for the status of the windows and linux versions, so > if you have one of _those_ machines, and you feel brave... > > -bowerbird > > _______________________________________________ > Markdown-Discuss mailing list > Markdown-Discuss at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/attachments/20110606/02ddb2e6/attachment.html>
mandaris said:> It would help your cause > if you actually had a pictures of it workingi don't have a "cause", but that's a good suggestion.> http://jaguarps.com/tools/screenshots.htmlof course, screenshots don't mean a whole lot, eh? it's more enlightening to look at the sample output:> http://jaguarps.com/creeb-0602.zip-bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/attachments/20110606/e33b46a5/attachment.html>
mandaris said:> I'm had no intention of causing disrespect > or to diminish the value of your work.thanks mandaris. i didn't take it that way. i have pretty thick skin. even lou quillio's snide comment about "auto-complete cruft" made me laugh. birds take ourselves lightly.> I was just stating that it's unsafe to > click a link and then download a file > from some person out of the blue.i appreciate your take. i've been on this list years now, but that might not be the point... if you -- or edwin -- don't want to download, i'm fine with that.> The email started off with the title > "fried fish, available, for free"that was a little joke based on a prior thread, where i said i didn't really need to get involved, because i had "my own fish to fry" -- meaning this very program which i was working to finish. but if you missed that post, then you wouldn't have known the inside joke. sorry about that...> and has a link to jaquarps.com.a jaguar is a wild feline, not a fish.> Seemed a little... fishy.i took your line about "fishing" as a comment on that, since that's usually spelled "phishing". but again, i have a sense of humor about myself.> Anyway, I hope that you continue with > your project and sharing with the world.you betcha, mandaris. :+) *** edwin said:> LInk doesn't render!sure it does. it's just that the page has 5 screenshots on it, so it's slow to load, since dreamhost ain't known for speed.> I'm scared of downloads from unknown sources.guess you'll just have to live without it then... ;+) seriously, at some point down the line, i'll put a copy up for sale in the mac store, for people willing to pay for ensured safety. *** lou said:> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/bowerbirdwikipedia is alright, but if you really want to know about bowerbirds, you should definitely visit the national geographic site instead, ok? -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/attachments/20110607/7ba398dd/attachment.html>
mandaris said:> Eh, no, Bowerbird, your screenshot page doesn't render. > You forgot to close your title tag.you're right. thanks for the tip. that's what i get for trying to throw up something quick. but it's all better now, because i've applied a fix.> http://jaguarps.com/tools/screenshots.htmlbut now i'm curious. what browsers fail/decline/refuse to render a page with such an "error"? safari showed it fine... -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/attachments/20110607/030ce5ff/attachment.htm>
thanks to everyone who corrected my .html... i would really appreciate having your sharp eyes go over the latest version of the xhtml created by my converter. an eat-my-own-dogfood example, the latest draft of the "user manual", is found here:> http://jaguarps.com/tools/creeb-0609.htmli invite you to throw stones at it, or me, if you like. -bowerbird p.s. i'm particularly fond of the "hover" specification, whereIn links harken back to the green phosphor days. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/attachments/20110609/4db040f7/attachment.htm>
arno said:> is this a "Discussion related to Markdown" anymore?let me deal with this last comment first. if people think this is out-of-place, i can back off. i've been a long-time supporter of light-markup, and as markdown has been the leading exemplar for a while now, i have done a lot to promote it... at the same time, i've been developing _my_ flavor. (and my efforts in that regard _predate_ markdown.) i'm obviously interested in markdown, or i wouldn't be here, but i'm thinking that people here might be interested in other forms of light-markup as well, including things like pandoc and restructured text. there are certainly a lot of issues that are related to the ongoing development of light-markup that can be discussed productively, if people want to do that. but if y'all do not, it's not my role to push that here. so let me know. either way.> 1. Congrats! It validates as XHTML 1.0 Strict [1].of course. most of the e-book compiler-tools will refuse to work if the .html which they are being fed doesn't validate...> 2. What's with all the horizontal rules at the end?it's a way to say "the end". plus it makes that final "chapter" fat enough that the "<c>" stays in place.> 3. What's with the "<c>" that keeps showing up?so, you didn't try it? that's probably understandable. it's a bed of links, but i strip decoration off the links. the "<" is a link to the previous chapter, the "c" links to the table of contents, and ">" goes to the next chapter. this makes it easy to step through the chapters, and is one of the best navigational functionalities i am using. i will probably end up making it smaller, and gray, but my experience after many years is that it is fantastic... and there's simply no way i would ever dispense with it. not that you were asking for that -- just to let you know. one of the things is that the project is directed at e-books. so the assumption is the readers are in it for the long haul, and will quickly learn the interface, so that big instructions aren't really needed.> 4. At the start you have an <h1> that is split by a <br /> > and formatted with multiple <big> tags. I don't know > off-hand if header tags _shouldn't_ be split by <br />, > but it sure doesn't _feel_ right.i most definitely feel that headings should be "copy-fit" to the available space, which often means linebreaking them, and usually not in the places where they just got "too long".> And "<big>"-style formatting doesn't > seem like it should be mixed in with CSS.well, that was something that i added by hand afterward. (the other was tightened leading on the table of contents.) i wish i could write a routine that would be clever enough to know when a part of a title should be made bigger and when not, but i don't feel that i'm smart enough to do so. (i'll try, when i have time, but i am not optimistic about it.)> 5. Why does every image have a "caption" > that indicates the filename? > This seems like more markup that is > supposed to be handled, but is > also being passed through to the HTML.a big part of the design philosophy of my project is that everything in the input has to be present in the output... related to this is a focus on the importance of _remixing_, with an important component the goal of "round-tripping". that is, a person should be able to _regenerate_ the input with little more than a few global-changes to the _output_. in other words, if i copy the text out of the web-browser, or the .pdf, i'll get something very close to the input-file. with which i could generate the _identical_ .html and .pdf. in order to wrap your head around just how radical this is, imagine that you could copy the text from a .pdf and have the indesign file which created the .pdf. pretty insane, eh? it's not quite so impossible with light-markup, but still... the equivalent with the markdown dingus would be that you could copy the results from the ".html output" part and paste 'em back in the "markdown input" section and create the same .html output, and do that over and over. maybe you feel there's "no need" for that type of thing. and maybe there isn't. but i think there is. either way, it'd be pretty darn cool -- and i aim to make it happen. and what that means is that things like the image-name must be present in the output, and not obfuscated away. now, they certainly can be smaller, and rendered in gray, so as to be less conspicuous. but a big part of the design is to "resurface" those things that are often "tucked away". i'm seeking transparency that hasn't been present before.> 6. Is there a single capital letter on the page?i certainly hope not. but every once in a while one slips in.> 7. The text could use some more "interesting" formatting, > but that could just be the styling that you've chosen.i am certainly open to any feedback that you might have... i fully recognize that i have absolutely zero designer skills. and .css is more "frustrating" to me than illuminating, and i have been doing stylesheets ever since ventura publisher. so i welcome feedback, and working .css, from anyone... at the same time, this is a tool for making e-books, and i don't know if you've seen the kindle viewer-program, or even ibooks, but they're incapable of anything except the simplest of the basics, and often even that is a big stretch. so i'm bound at the other end with impoverished environs.> The weirdest part is the seeming mix of markup > in the formatted document. I'm not sure if it's > supposed to be an example of the HTML output > of your converter or an HTML representation > of the input to your converter. It seems like both.i should have shown you the input file as well. it's here:> http://jaguarps.com/tools/creeb-0609.zmlcomparing the .zml and .html, side-by-side, is instructive. it might also show you why i believe that i have developed the lightest light-markup around. that's why i call it "zen". so arno, thank you for your valuable feedback. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/attachments/20110609/e013a888/attachment.htm>
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 20:29, <Bowerbird at aol.com> wrote:> arno said: >> >>?? 6. Is there a single capital letter on the page? > > i certainly hope not.? but every once in a while one slips in.OK, this is the only one that I could use some clarification on. Why is there no capitalization? -- arno? s? hautala? ? /-|?? arno at alum.wpi.edu pgp b2c9d448
Hi Bowerbird, I kinda dislike the <c> links as they indeed look like a HTML tag to me. You could try replacing them with Unicode arrows like ? and ? and something like ? for the table of contents. Or icons, if your underlying output formats support those. In my opinion, even expert users often like easy interfaces. Cheers, Wander On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 04:51, Arno Hautala <arno at alum.wpi.edu> wrote:> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 20:29, ?<Bowerbird at aol.com> wrote: >> arno said: >>> >>>?? 6. Is there a single capital letter on the page? >> >> i certainly hope not.? but every once in a while one slips in. > > OK, this is the only one that I could use some clarification on. Why > is there no capitalization? > > -- > arno? s? hautala? ? /-|?? arno at alum.wpi.edu > > pgp b2c9d448 > _______________________________________________ > Markdown-Discuss mailing list > Markdown-Discuss at six.pairlist.net > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/markdown-discuss >
arno said:> Why is there no capitalization?i think capital letters look ugly, so i don't use 'em... :+) *** thank you all for the feedback. you were right that the "<c>" thing is too confusing. i went to images instead for that, and they're better.> http://jaguarps.com/tools/creeb-0610.htmlas you can also see, i changed the links decoration, to an underline. i won't keep that, because it's too distracting to a person who's reading, and they don't need to be constantly reminded that headers are links, or that the table of contents is links, or that footnotes are linked, and backlinked too, or that u.r.l.s are links. speaking of footnotes, i use a return-linking style that differs from everything else i've seen out there, in that i jump to the _start_ of the paragraph that contains the footnote in it, rather than to the footnote-number itself. i differ further in that full entire paragraph, and end-note, are links, not just the number and the return-link symbol. which means that i don't even need a return-link symbol. (of course, the underline-decoration makes this too ugly, but, as i said, i will be ditching that decoration right away.) today's version, as opposed to yesterdays, has a smaller default text-size _and_ a smaller width, which means that the measure is about the same. a lot of people, including designers, say that smaller type looks "more professional". on the other hand, readers would rather have a font-size be _readable_ than have it "look professional", so there is a good bit of natural tension between the two sides here... as usual, i tend to stand with the readers. *** sherwood said:> Table of contents could be easily handled with > a pre-processor. FrameMaker had a neat feature > where you could define certain paragraph styles > as being included in the ToC. So, for example, > you could define H1, H2, and H3 as being ToC worthyi'm not sure what you're getting at here, sherwood, so if you want to explain that, i would be interested. in z.m.l. documents, the table of contents serves as a belt-and-suspenders check against the actual contents, where an _exact_ match means each confirms the other. -bowerbird -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/markdown-discuss/attachments/20110610/85d50a09/attachment.html>