On Thursday 16 October 2003 09:21, Dave Alan Caruana wrote:> The problems I faced were the following : > - initially a problem with asterisk crashing totally when there wasn't an > extension > to ring .. though this was fixed in a subsequent CVS, it was causing > downtime. > the client has no unix knowledge, and a script I put in to kick in the > asterisk > when it shut itself down didn't seem to always work. > > it also reduced the quality of my subsequent callout requests to something > on > the lines of "the phone server is crashed again" regardless of what the > problem wasI suggest people download and install dameontools http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html and have asterisk as a supervised service. If it fails, supervise will restart it after 5 seconds. Regards...Martin -- Alimony is a system by which, when two people make a mistake, one of them continues to pay for it. -- Peggy Joyce
i've just lost $2000 dollars or so on my first commercial asterisk installation .. i'm running a PIV class server, three Digium Wildcard FXO cards, and 10 Grandstream Budgettone SIP phones. The system was to be a PBX for a small company. After over 2 months of pissing about, the client has had his fill of asterisk problems, and asked me to take my equipment out of the building. Obviously, I haven't been paid for anything. The problems I faced were the following : - initially a problem with asterisk crashing totally when there wasn't an extension to ring .. though this was fixed in a subsequent CVS, it was causing downtime. the client has no unix knowledge, and a script I put in to kick in the asterisk when it shut itself down didn't seem to always work. it also reduced the quality of my subsequent callout requests to something on the lines of "the phone server is crashed again" regardless of what the problem was - a dialplan problem, where one phone was ringing 10 seconds after the others, at the client's request and they were hearing other phones ring and picking up a non-ringing phone (ok, I can't really blame that on asterisk ..) - echo on the lines .. that after much fiddling around with configurations went from terrible to borderline acceptable. To people not used to digital telephony and computer stuff, the echo was VERY annoying. They used to avoid the phones because they said people would not understand them. - no consultative transfer. The closest I got was to park the call, call the other party, tell him "a voce" which line the call is parked on and then get him to pick up the call. This is, in my opinion, a very basic feature that is missing on asterisk. The park/ pick up sequence proved too difficult for the clients' secretaries to grasp. - I could not get G729 working properly (license paid up, G729 up and running). In the absence of a manual, the fault solving process was something like "ask a question on the mailing list, get a few answers, go to the client, try it out, fail, go back home, send another question on the mailinglist" with about 48 hours for each iteration. I was also appearing a real chimp "expermimenting" stuff at the clients' office. At this point I decided to cut my losses, retreive the equipment and call it a day. When asterisk is well documented and released in stable releases, I will willingly consider it again. I would be willing to pay for a stable, documented version of asterisk. It is a lovely software, and to begin with I was very enthusiastic about it. I do understand that the support community is helpful, but the current status of things limits asterisk to a hobbyist scenario or at least somewhere where there is an engineer with lots of linux experience and patience online 24 hours to solve problems as they crop up. If anyone would like a couple of second hand FXO boards, contact me. I have already found a home for the grandstreams. cheers Dave
This is a traumatic story. Maybe you can help the rest of us who are making business decisions using *. Will you or client be looking at any other SIP alternatives? Do you think any problems were with the phone sets themselves? Again, sorry to hear of your troubles. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Dave Alan Caruana" <david@melita.net> Reply-To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:21:02 +0200>i've just lost $2000 dollars or so on my first commercial asterisk >installation .. >i'm running a PIV class server, three Digium Wildcard FXO cards, and >10 Grandstream Budgettone SIP phones. The system was to be a PBX >for a small company. After over 2 months of pissing about, the client has >had his fill of asterisk problems, and asked me to take my equipment >out of the building. Obviously, I haven't been paid for anything. > >The problems I faced were the following : >- initially a problem with asterisk crashing totally when there wasn't an >extension > to ring .. though this was fixed in a subsequent CVS, it was causing >downtime. > the client has no unix knowledge, and a script I put in to kick in the >asterisk > when it shut itself down didn't seem to always work. > > it also reduced the quality of my subsequent callout requests to something >on > the lines of "the phone server is crashed again" regardless of what the >problem was > >- a dialplan problem, where one phone was ringing 10 seconds after the >others, > at the client's request and they were hearing other phones ring and >picking up > a non-ringing phone (ok, I can't really blame that on asterisk ..) > >- echo on the lines .. that after much fiddling around with configurations >went from > terrible to borderline acceptable. To people not used to digital >telephony and > computer stuff, the echo was VERY annoying. They used to avoid the phones > because they said people would not understand them. > >- no consultative transfer. The closest I got was to park the call, call the >other party, > tell him "a voce" which line the call is parked on and then get him to >pick up the call. > This is, in my opinion, a very basic feature that is missing on asterisk. >The park/ > pick up sequence proved too difficult for the clients' secretaries to >grasp. > >- I could not get G729 working properly (license paid up, G729 up and >running). In > the absence of a manual, the fault solving process was something like "ask >a question > on the mailing list, get a few answers, go to the client, try it out, >fail, go back home, > send another question on the mailinglist" with about 48 hours for each >iteration. I was > also appearing a real chimp "expermimenting" stuff at the clients' office. > >At this point I decided to cut my losses, retreive the equipment and call it >a day. >When asterisk is well documented and released in stable releases, I will >willingly >consider it again. I would be willing to pay for a stable, documented >version of >asterisk. It is a lovely software, and to begin with I was very enthusiastic >about it. >I do understand that the support community is helpful, but the current >status of things >limits asterisk to a hobbyist scenario or at least somewhere where there is >an engineer >with lots of linux experience and patience online 24 hours to solve problems >as they >crop up. > >If anyone would like a couple of second hand FXO boards, contact me. I have >already found a home for the grandstreams. > >cheers >Dave > >_______________________________________________ >Asterisk-Users mailing list >Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com >http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users >-- Costas Menico Meezon Software Corp 201-224-8111 costas@meezon.com --
On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Dave Alan Caruana wrote:> no consultative transfer. The closest I got was to park the call, call > the other party, tell him "a voce" which line the call is parked on and > then get him to pick up the call. This is, in my opinion, a very basic > feature that is missing on asterisk. The park/ pick up sequence proved > too difficult for the clients' secretaries to grasp.I agree entirely, this is a particularly awful part of using the GrandStream BudgeTone phones, but the general view seems to be that you need to buy an expensive phone for the reception and then things should be okay (Snom200 was suggested). Michael
Asterisk... Linux... You get what you pay for. And it's free :P On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 15:21, Dave Alan Caruana wrote:> i've just lost $2000 dollars or so on my first commercial asterisk > installation .. > i'm running a PIV class server, three Digium Wildcard FXO cards, and > 10 Grandstream Budgettone SIP phones. The system was to be a PBX > for a small company. After over 2 months of pissing about, the client has > had his fill of asterisk problems, and asked me to take my equipment > out of the building. Obviously, I haven't been paid for anything. > > The problems I faced were the following : > - initially a problem with asterisk crashing totally when there wasn't an > extension > to ring .. though this was fixed in a subsequent CVS, it was causing > downtime. > the client has no unix knowledge, and a script I put in to kick in the > asterisk > when it shut itself down didn't seem to always work. > > it also reduced the quality of my subsequent callout requests to something > on > the lines of "the phone server is crashed again" regardless of what the > problem was > > - a dialplan problem, where one phone was ringing 10 seconds after the > others, > at the client's request and they were hearing other phones ring and > picking up > a non-ringing phone (ok, I can't really blame that on asterisk ..) > > - echo on the lines .. that after much fiddling around with configurations > went from > terrible to borderline acceptable. To people not used to digital > telephony and > computer stuff, the echo was VERY annoying. They used to avoid the phones > because they said people would not understand them. > > - no consultative transfer. The closest I got was to park the call, call the > other party, > tell him "a voce" which line the call is parked on and then get him to > pick up the call. > This is, in my opinion, a very basic feature that is missing on asterisk. > The park/ > pick up sequence proved too difficult for the clients' secretaries to > grasp. > > - I could not get G729 working properly (license paid up, G729 up and > running). In > the absence of a manual, the fault solving process was something like "ask > a question > on the mailing list, get a few answers, go to the client, try it out, > fail, go back home, > send another question on the mailinglist" with about 48 hours for each > iteration. I was > also appearing a real chimp "expermimenting" stuff at the clients' office. > > At this point I decided to cut my losses, retreive the equipment and call it > a day. > When asterisk is well documented and released in stable releases, I will > willingly > consider it again. I would be willing to pay for a stable, documented > version of > asterisk. It is a lovely software, and to begin with I was very enthusiastic > about it. > I do understand that the support community is helpful, but the current > status of things > limits asterisk to a hobbyist scenario or at least somewhere where there is > an engineer > with lots of linux experience and patience online 24 hours to solve problems > as they > crop up. > > If anyone would like a couple of second hand FXO boards, contact me. I have > already found a home for the grandstreams. > > cheers > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Dave, I sympathize greatly with your plight. I just had a similar experience myself, although I managed to salvage it before I was asked to remove it from the building. I was using Pingtel phones that were supposed to "work great with Asterisk" but instead crashed all the time. Then I got the Sip bug that caused * to stop responding when doing a cvs update for work arounds for the phones. I ended up pulling the Pingtel phones and replacing with Smartalk analog phones. Everyone seems to be fairly happy right now, but it has been a huge nightmare and a huge learning experience. One thing I learned is that Asterisk is very capable even in production, but if your going to implement it you had better make sure that you can do full blown testing before implementing initially and again for any changes. I am very wary of CVS updates now... Quite a few people are making a concerted effort to make documentation better and I think this will help quite a bit. Sincerely, Andy Hester Consero> -----Original Message----- > From: asterisk-users-admin@lists.digium.com > [mailto:asterisk-users-admin@lists.digium.com]On Behalf Of Dave Alan > Caruana > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:21 AM > To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com > Subject: [Asterisk-Users] I give up!! > > > i've just lost $2000 dollars or so on my first commercial asterisk > installation .. > i'm running a PIV class server, three Digium Wildcard FXO cards, and > 10 Grandstream Budgettone SIP phones. The system was to be a PBX > for a small company. After over 2 months of pissing about, the client has > had his fill of asterisk problems, and asked me to take my equipment > out of the building. Obviously, I haven't been paid for anything. > > The problems I faced were the following : > - initially a problem with asterisk crashing totally when there wasn't an > extension > to ring .. though this was fixed in a subsequent CVS, it was causing > downtime. > the client has no unix knowledge, and a script I put in to kick in the > asterisk > when it shut itself down didn't seem to always work. > > it also reduced the quality of my subsequent callout requests > to something > on > the lines of "the phone server is crashed again" regardless of what the > problem was > > - a dialplan problem, where one phone was ringing 10 seconds after the > others, > at the client's request and they were hearing other phones ring and > picking up > a non-ringing phone (ok, I can't really blame that on asterisk ..) > > - echo on the lines .. that after much fiddling around with configurations > went from > terrible to borderline acceptable. To people not used to digital > telephony and > computer stuff, the echo was VERY annoying. They used to avoid > the phones > because they said people would not understand them. > > - no consultative transfer. The closest I got was to park the > call, call the > other party, > tell him "a voce" which line the call is parked on and then get him to > pick up the call. > This is, in my opinion, a very basic feature that is missing on > asterisk. > The park/ > pick up sequence proved too difficult for the clients' secretaries to > grasp. > > - I could not get G729 working properly (license paid up, G729 up and > running). In > the absence of a manual, the fault solving process was > something like "ask > a question > on the mailing list, get a few answers, go to the client, try it out, > fail, go back home, > send another question on the mailinglist" with about 48 hours for each > iteration. I was > also appearing a real chimp "expermimenting" stuff at the > clients' office. > > At this point I decided to cut my losses, retreive the equipment > and call it > a day. > When asterisk is well documented and released in stable releases, I will > willingly > consider it again. I would be willing to pay for a stable, documented > version of > asterisk. It is a lovely software, and to begin with I was very > enthusiastic > about it. > I do understand that the support community is helpful, but the current > status of things > limits asterisk to a hobbyist scenario or at least somewhere > where there is > an engineer > with lots of linux experience and patience online 24 hours to > solve problems > as they > crop up. > > If anyone would like a couple of second hand FXO boards, contact > me. I have > already found a home for the grandstreams. > > cheers > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
You went about this all backwards. In any mission critical system FIRST you design, build and test the system extensively THEN and only then. do you deploy it. OK, maybe it's just because I'm in the aerospace bussinees I'm used to a high level of quality assurance and testing What you find in CVS is NOT a product. You need to build a working product, debug it, build a support system for it (decent user manuals and training material) test the heck out of your configuration. Design a failure recovery plan (what happens if a power suply smokes?) and only then go knocking on people's doors. The idea is that you drop off a turn key system and not do development in the costomer's office. I've paid to have a phone system installed and we wrote up the deal that after it worked we'd pay for it and any problems in the first 90 days were to be fixed at no cost to us. Most people expect phone to "just work". --- Dave Alan Caruana <david@melita.net> wrote:> i've just lost $2000 dollars or so on my first commercial asterisk > installation .. > i'm running a PIV class server, three Digium Wildcard FXO cards, and > 10 Grandstream Budgettone SIP phones. The system was to be a PBX > for a small company. After over 2 months of pissing about, the client > has > had his fill of asterisk problems, and asked me to take my equipment > out of the building. Obviously, I haven't been paid for anything. > > The problems I faced were the following : > - initially a problem with asterisk crashing totally when there > wasn't an > extension > to ring .. though this was fixed in a subsequent CVS, it was > causing > downtime. > the client has no unix knowledge, and a script I put in to kick in > the > asterisk > when it shut itself down didn't seem to always work. > > it also reduced the quality of my subsequent callout requests to > something > on > the lines of "the phone server is crashed again" regardless of what > the > problem was > > - a dialplan problem, where one phone was ringing 10 seconds after > the > others, > at the client's request and they were hearing other phones ring > and > picking up > a non-ringing phone (ok, I can't really blame that on asterisk ..) > > - echo on the lines .. that after much fiddling around with > configurations > went from > terrible to borderline acceptable. To people not used to digital > telephony and > computer stuff, the echo was VERY annoying. They used to avoid the > phones > because they said people would not understand them. > > - no consultative transfer. The closest I got was to park the call, > call the > other party, > tell him "a voce" which line the call is parked on and then get him > to > pick up the call. > This is, in my opinion, a very basic feature that is missing on > asterisk. > The park/ > pick up sequence proved too difficult for the clients' secretaries > to > grasp. > > - I could not get G729 working properly (license paid up, G729 up and > running). In > the absence of a manual, the fault solving process was something > like "ask > a question > on the mailing list, get a few answers, go to the client, try it > out, > fail, go back home, > send another question on the mailinglist" with about 48 hours for > each > iteration. I was > also appearing a real chimp "expermimenting" stuff at the clients' > office. > > At this point I decided to cut my losses, retreive the equipment and > call it > a day. > When asterisk is well documented and released in stable releases, I > will > willingly > consider it again. I would be willing to pay for a stable, documented > version of > asterisk. It is a lovely software, and to begin with I was very > enthusiastic > about it. > I do understand that the support community is helpful, but the > current > status of things > limits asterisk to a hobbyist scenario or at least somewhere where > there is > an engineer > with lots of linux experience and patience online 24 hours to solve > problems > as they > crop up. > > If anyone would like a couple of second hand FXO boards, contact me. > I have > already found a home for the grandstreams. > > cheers > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users====Chris Albertson Home: 310-376-1029 chrisalbertson90278@yahoo.com Cell: 310-990-7550 Office: 310-336-5189 Christopher.J.Albertson@aero.org KG6OMK __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com
Hi, At 09:31 16-10-2003 -0500, you wrote:>testing before implementing initially and again for any changes. I am very >wary of CVS updates now... > > Quite a few people are making a concerted effort to make > documentation >better and I think this will help quite a bit.I think a proper schema to do CVS release tagging/labelling will help alot too :-) Florian