David Combs
2012-Jun-11 20:40 UTC
[zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?
Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss? David
James C. McPherson
2012-Jun-11 20:55 UTC
[zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?
On 12/06/12 06:40 AM, David Combs wrote:> Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?Actually, no. Where''s the value in having a newsgroup as well as a mailing list? James C. McPherson -- Oracle http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog
David Combs
2012-Jun-11 21:55 UTC
[zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?
Advantages to true newsgroup? THREADS! If you wait until a thread is finished, you can then see the entire thread, and if you want, you can download the whole thing, or just parts thereof. Great for learning, if you''re mostly a lurker, not posting answers. That''s vastly simpler than getting a thousand emails, saving them all in a file, and then having to sort them by subject-line (modified so "RE:", etc are ignored in sort key), to get them grouped by zfs-topic. What a pain. When via a powerful newsreader (I use trn4), all of that is done for you automatically. Furthermore, at least one newsreader, trn4, via its "t" (tree) command, will draw a tree (rooted at the right side of the page, but the text oriented so you can read right-side-up, without turning your head sideways) so you can pursue topics, can see how they lay out, or better yet, delete, say, flame subthreads (surely not a problem with zfs-discuss). Besides that, you don''t have posts hitting your regular email list, diluting the urgent stuff you really do have to respond to, making it easier to miss that stuff. Lets you keep newsgroup-TYPE stuff (eg zfs-discuss email) separate from true-email stuff. -- QUESTION: how much effort (for someone who already knows how, has done it before) to create a newsgroup that mirrors a listserv? Once done, all anyone has to do is request from his friendly isp (mine is panix.com, *very* friendly) to support that new newsgroup. Name it something like comp.unix.solaris.zfs. Or just have it all go to comp.unix.solaris, which of course already exists. Anyway, I hope I''ve answered your question. Cheers! David -----Original Message----- From: James C. McPherson [mailto:jmcp at opensolaris.org] Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:55 PM To: David Combs Cc: zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss? On 12/06/12 06:40 AM, David Combs wrote:> Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?Actually, no. Where''s the value in having a newsgroup as well as a mailing list? James C. McPherson -- Oracle http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2433/5062 - Release Date: 06/11/12
Tomas Forsman
2012-Jun-11 22:05 UTC
[zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?
On 11 June, 2012 - David Combs sent me these 2,4K bytes:> Advantages to true newsgroup? > > THREADS! If you wait until a thread is finished, you can then see the entire thread, and if you want, you can download the whole thing, or just parts thereof. > > Great for learning, if you''re mostly a lurker, not posting answers. > > That''s vastly simpler than getting a thousand emails, saving them all in a file, and then having to sort them by subject-line (modified so "RE:", etc are ignored in sort key), to get them grouped by zfs-topic. What a pain... or use a mail reader that doesn''t suck.> When via a powerful newsreader (I use trn4), all of that is done for you automatically.mutt is probably pretty close.> Furthermore, at least one newsreader, trn4, via its "t" (tree) command, will draw a tree (rooted at the right side of the page, but the text oriented so you can read right-side-up, without turning your head sideways) so you can pursue topics, can see how they lay out, or better yet, delete, say, flame subthreads (surely not a problem with zfs-discuss). > > Besides that, you don''t have posts hitting your regular email list, diluting the urgent stuff you really do have to respond to, making it easier to miss that stuff. > > Lets you keep newsgroup-TYPE stuff (eg zfs-discuss email) separate from true-email stuff.It''s called "mail filtering".> -- > > QUESTION: how much effort (for someone who already knows how, has done it before) to create a newsgroup that mirrors a listserv? > > Once done, all anyone has to do is request from his friendly isp (mine is panix.com, *very* friendly) to support that new newsgroup. > > Name it something like comp.unix.solaris.zfs. > > Or just have it all go to comp.unix.solaris, which of course already exists. > > > Anyway, I hope I''ve answered your question. > > Cheers! > > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: James C. McPherson [mailto:jmcp at opensolaris.org] > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:55 PM > To: David Combs > Cc: zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss? > > On 12/06/12 06:40 AM, David Combs wrote: > > Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss? > > Actually, no. Where''s the value in having a newsgroup as well as a mailing list? > > > James C. McPherson > -- > Oracle > http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog > ----- > No virus found in this message.Good to know, I better trust this info - just like spam that says it''s not spam :P> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2433/5062 - Release Date: 06/11/12 > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss/Tomas -- Tomas Forsman, stric at acc.umu.se, http://www.acc.umu.se/~stric/ |- Student at Computing Science, University of Ume? `- Sysadmin at {cs,acc}.umu.se
Nico Williams
2012-Jun-11 22:10 UTC
[zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Tomas Forsman <stric at acc.umu.se> wrote:> .. or use a mail reader that doesn''t suck.Or the mailman thread view.
John D Groenveld
2012-Jun-11 22:11 UTC
[zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?
In message <008c01cd4812$7399c180$5acd4480$@net>, David Combs writes:>Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?Did you try Gmane''s interface? <URL:http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=jo43q0%24no50%241%40tr22n12.aset.psu.edu> John groenveld at acm.org
Alan Hargreaves
2012-Jun-11 22:12 UTC
[zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?
There is a ZFS Community on the Oracle Communities that was just kicked off this month - https://communities.oracle.com/portal/server.pt/community/oracle_solaris_zfs_file_system/526 Regards, Alan Hargreaves On 06/12/12 08:05, Tomas Forsman wrote:> On 11 June, 2012 - David Combs sent me these 2,4K bytes: > >> Advantages to true newsgroup? >> >> THREADS! If you wait until a thread is finished, you can then see the entire thread, and if you want, you can download the whole thing, or just parts thereof. >> >> Great for learning, if you''re mostly a lurker, not posting answers. >> >> That''s vastly simpler than getting a thousand emails, saving them all in a file, and then having to sort them by subject-line (modified so "RE:", etc are ignored in sort key), to get them grouped by zfs-topic. What a pain. > .. or use a mail reader that doesn''t suck. > >> When via a powerful newsreader (I use trn4), all of that is done for you automatically. > mutt is probably pretty close. > >> Furthermore, at least one newsreader, trn4, via its "t" (tree) command, will draw a tree (rooted at the right side of the page, but the text oriented so you can read right-side-up, without turning your head sideways) so you can pursue topics, can see how they lay out, or better yet, delete, say, flame subthreads (surely not a problem with zfs-discuss). >> >> Besides that, you don''t have posts hitting your regular email list, diluting the urgent stuff you really do have to respond to, making it easier to miss that stuff. >> >> Lets you keep newsgroup-TYPE stuff (eg zfs-discuss email) separate from true-email stuff. > It''s called "mail filtering". > >> -- >> >> QUESTION: how much effort (for someone who already knows how, has done it before) to create a newsgroup that mirrors a listserv? >> >> Once done, all anyone has to do is request from his friendly isp (mine is panix.com, *very* friendly) to support that new newsgroup. >> >> Name it something like comp.unix.solaris.zfs. >> >> Or just have it all go to comp.unix.solaris, which of course already exists. >> >> >> Anyway, I hope I''ve answered your question. >> >> Cheers! >> >> David >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: James C. McPherson [mailto:jmcp at opensolaris.org] >> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:55 PM >> To: David Combs >> Cc: zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org >> Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss? >> >> On 12/06/12 06:40 AM, David Combs wrote: >>> Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss? >> Actually, no. Where''s the value in having a newsgroup as well as a mailing list? >> >> >> James C. McPherson >> -- >> Oracle >> http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. > Good to know, I better trust this info - just like spam that says it''s > not spam :P > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2433/5062 - Release Date: 06/11/12 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> zfs-discuss mailing list >> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org >> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss > > /Tomas-- <http://www.oracle.com> * Hardware and Software, Engineered to Work Together* Alan Hargreaves | Senior Principal Technical Support Engineer | Principal Field Technologist Solaris and Networking | Global Systems Support Email: alan.hargreaves at oracle.com <mailto:alan.hargreaves at oracle.com> Blog: alanhargreaves.wordpress.com <http://alanhargreaves.wordpress.com> Phone: +61-2-9491-2342 | Mobile: +61-416-207-573 Oracle Global Customer Services Log, update, and monitor your Service Request online using My Oracle Support <http://support.oracle.com> This message is cryptographically signed. Any modern mail reader should be able to verify that the message has been delivered unaltered since I sent it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20120612/c4341285/attachment.html> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: .oracle-email-sig.gif Type: image/gif Size: 658 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20120612/c4341285/attachment.gif> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: .qr-code-20120429.png Type: image/png Size: 2509 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20120612/c4341285/attachment.png> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4915 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20120612/c4341285/attachment.bin>
You''re describing primarily client differences, not server/service differences. Some people have been using the same tools for mail and for news for years, with the same benefits to each. Right now I''m posting through GMane''s NNTP interface, only to show that you can. nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.solaris.opensolaris.zfs . Normally I read it as a list (using mutt), because there I get the entire thread, and it''s downloaded in full, whether I''m lurking or posting answers, and they''re saved in a separate folder separate from my inbox, separate from my true-email stuff. And I don''t have to use trn4! Gak, that was a horrible waste of trn3. On 6/11/12 4:55 PM, David Combs wrote:> Advantages to true newsgroup? > > THREADS! If you wait until a thread is finished, you can then see the entire thread, and if you want, you can download the whole thing, or just parts thereof. > > Great for learning, if you''re mostly a lurker, not posting answers. > > That''s vastly simpler than getting a thousand emails, saving them all in a file, and then having to sort them by subject-line (modified so "RE:", etc are ignored in sort key), to get them grouped by zfs-topic. What a pain. > > When via a powerful newsreader (I use trn4), all of that is done for you automatically. > > Furthermore, at least one newsreader, trn4, via its "t" (tree) command, will draw a tree (rooted at the right side of the page, but the text oriented so you can read right-side-up, without turning your head sideways) so you can pursue topics, can see how they lay out, or better yet, delete, say, flame subthreads (surely not a problem with zfs-discuss). > > Besides that, you don''t have posts hitting your regular email list, diluting the urgent stuff you really do have to respond to, making it easier to miss that stuff. > > Lets you keep newsgroup-TYPE stuff (eg zfs-discuss email) separate from true-email stuff. > > -- > > QUESTION: how much effort (for someone who already knows how, has done it before) to create a newsgroup that mirrors a listserv? > > Once done, all anyone has to do is request from his friendly isp (mine is panix.com, *very* friendly) to support that new newsgroup. > > Name it something like comp.unix.solaris.zfs. > > Or just have it all go to comp.unix.solaris, which of course already exists. > > > Anyway, I hope I''ve answered your question. > > Cheers! > > David > > > -----Original Message----- > From: James C. McPherson [mailto:jmcp at opensolaris.org] > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:55 PM > To: David Combs > Cc: zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss? > > On 12/06/12 06:40 AM, David Combs wrote: >> Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss? > > Actually, no. Where''s the value in having a newsgroup as well as a mailing list? > > > James C. McPherson > -- > Oracle > http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2433/5062 - Release Date: 06/11/12
Carson Gaspar
2012-Jun-11 23:02 UTC
[zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?
On 6/11/12 3:12 PM, Alan Hargreaves wrote:> There is a ZFS Community on the Oracle Communities that was just kicked > off this month - > https://communities.oracle.com/portal/server.pt/community/oracle_solaris_zfs_file_system/526Thanks for the heads up, but it''s just another horrid Oracle web UI with next to no functionality. Given that, I doubt it will have much participation. But I''ve been wrong before (I certainly won''t be logging into Oracle''s support portal every day to see what''s new, that''s for sure - email, RSS, ATOM, NNTP, _something_ other than polling manually in a browser...) (I''m amazed that a company that touts its server and database performance thinks it''s fine and dandy PR to have customer logins take >20 seconds... <sarcasm>nice to see that hasn''t changed since the Sun days</sarcasm>) -- Carson
Jens Elkner
2012-Jun-12 02:35 UTC
[zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 08:12:48AM +1000, Alan Hargreaves wrote:> There is a ZFS Community on the Oracle Communities that was just kicked > off this month - > https://communities.oracle.com/portal/server.pt/community/oracle_solaris_zfs_file_system/526Ohh, another censored forum/crappy thing - no thanx! Regards, jel. -- Otto-von-Guericke University http://www.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/ Department of Computer Science Geb. 29 R 027, Universitaetsplatz 2 39106 Magdeburg, Germany Tel: +49 391 67 12768