zfs discuss - Jun 2006 - ZFS components for a minimal Solaris 10 U2 install?

For an embedded application, I''m looking at creating a minimal Solaris 
10 U2 image which would include ZFS functionality.  In quickly taking a 
look at the opensolaris.org site under pkgdefs, I see three packages 
that appear to be related to ZFS: SUNWzfskr, SUNWzfsr, and SUNWzfsu.  Is 
it naive to think that this would be all that is needed for ZFS?

Thanks,
-- Jim C

On Jun 28, 2006, at 4:27 PM, Jim Connors wrote:
> For an embedded application, I''m looking at creating a minimal  
> Solaris 10 U2 image which would include ZFS functionality.  In  
> quickly taking a look at the opensolaris.org site under pkgdefs, I  
> see three packages that appear to be related to ZFS: SUNWzfskr,  
> SUNWzfsr, and SUNWzfsu.  Is it naive to think that this would be  
> all that is needed for ZFS?
Those packages, as well as what''s listed in the depend files for  
those packages.

Ahh, don''t you love climbing the dependency tree?

/dale

Dale Ghent wrote:
> On Jun 28, 2006, at 4:27 PM, Jim Connors wrote:
>
>> For an embedded application, I''m looking at creating a minimal
>> Solaris 10 U2 image which would include ZFS functionality.  In  
>> quickly taking a look at the opensolaris.org site under pkgdefs, I  
>> see three packages that appear to be related to ZFS: SUNWzfskr,  
>> SUNWzfsr, and SUNWzfsu.  Is it naive to think that this would be  all 
>> that is needed for ZFS?
>
>
> Those packages, as well as what''s listed in the depend files for  
> those packages.
>
> Ahh, don''t you love climbing the dependency tree?
>
> /dale
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Glenn Brunette wrote a nifty little tool  ...  have to assume that all 
of the dependencies are appropriately doc''ed of course <cough>.

http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/gbrunett?entry=solaris_package_companion

/jason

Included below is a a thread which dealt with trying to find the 
packages necessary for a minimal Solais 10 U2 install with ZFS 
functionality.  In addition to SUNWzfskr, SUNzfsr and SUNWzfsu the 
SUNWsmapi package needs to be installed.  The libdiskmgt.so.1 library is 
required for the zpool(1M) command.  Finding this out via trial and 
error, there is no dependency mentioned for SUNWsmapi in the SUNWzfsr 
depend file.

Apologies if this is nitpicking, but is this missing dependency worthy 
of submitting a P5 CR?

-- Jim C


Jason Schroeder wrote:
> Dale Ghent wrote:
>
>> On Jun 28, 2006, at 4:27 PM, Jim Connors wrote:
>>
>>> For an embedded application, I''m looking at creating a
minimal
>>> Solaris 10 U2 image which would include ZFS functionality.  In  
>>> quickly taking a look at the opensolaris.org site under pkgdefs, I
>>> see three packages that appear to be related to ZFS: SUNWzfskr,  
>>> SUNWzfsr, and SUNWzfsu.  Is it naive to think that this would be  
>>> all that is needed for ZFS?
>>
>>
>> Those packages, as well as what''s listed in the depend files
for
>> those packages.
>>
>> Ahh, don''t you love climbing the dependency tree?
>>
>> /dale
>> _______________________________________________
>> zfs-discuss mailing list
>> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>
> Glenn Brunette wrote a nifty little tool  ...  have to assume that all 
> of the dependencies are appropriately doc''ed of course
<cough>.
>
> http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/gbrunett?entry=solaris_package_companion
>
> /jason

No arguement from me.  For better or for worse, most of the customers I 
speak with minimize their OS distributions.  The more we can accurately 
describe dependencies within our current methods, the better.


/jason

Jim Connors wrote:
>
> Included below is a a thread which dealt with trying to find the 
> packages necessary for a minimal Solais 10 U2 install with ZFS 
> functionality.  In addition to SUNWzfskr, SUNzfsr and SUNWzfsu the 
> SUNWsmapi package needs to be installed.  The libdiskmgt.so.1 library 
> is required for the zpool(1M) command.  Finding this out via trial and 
> error, there is no dependency mentioned for SUNWsmapi in the SUNWzfsr 
> depend file.
>
> Apologies if this is nitpicking, but is this missing dependency worthy 
> of submitting a P5 CR?
>
> -- Jim C
>
>
> Jason Schroeder wrote:
>
>> Dale Ghent wrote:
>>
>>> On Jun 28, 2006, at 4:27 PM, Jim Connors wrote:
>>>
>>>> For an embedded application, I''m looking at creating a
minimal
>>>> Solaris 10 U2 image which would include ZFS functionality.  In
>>>> quickly taking a look at the opensolaris.org site under
pkgdefs, I
>>>> see three packages that appear to be related to ZFS: SUNWzfskr,
>>>> SUNWzfsr, and SUNWzfsu.  Is it naive to think that this would
be
>>>> all that is needed for ZFS?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Those packages, as well as what''s listed in the depend
files for
>>> those packages.
>>>
>>> Ahh, don''t you love climbing the dependency tree?
>>>
>>> /dale
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> zfs-discuss mailing list
>>> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
>>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>>
>>
>> Glenn Brunette wrote a nifty little tool  ...  have to assume that 
>> all of the dependencies are appropriately doc''ed of course
<cough>.
>>
>>
http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/gbrunett?entry=solaris_package_companion
>>
>>
>> /jason
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss

On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 10:25:04AM -0400, Jim Connors
wrote:
> 
> Included below is a a thread which dealt with trying to find the 
> packages necessary for a minimal Solais 10 U2 install with ZFS 
> functionality.  In addition to SUNWzfskr, SUNzfsr and SUNWzfsu the 
> SUNWsmapi package needs to be installed.  The libdiskmgt.so.1 library is 
> required for the zpool(1M) command.  Finding this out via trial and 
> error, there is no dependency mentioned for SUNWsmapi in the SUNWzfsr 
> depend file.
> 
> Apologies if this is nitpicking, but is this missing dependency worthy 
> of submitting a P5 CR?
Absolutely.

- Eric

--
Eric Schrock, Solaris Kernel Development       http://blogs.sun.com/eschrock

Guys,

Thanks for the help so far,  now comes the more interesting questions ...

Piggybacking off of some work being done to minimize Solaris for 
embedded use, I have a version of Solaris 10 U2 with ZFS functionality 
with a disk footprint of about 60MB.   Creating a miniroot based upon 
this image, it can be compressed to under 30MB.  Currently, I load this 
image onto a USB keyring and boot from the USB device running the 
Solaris miniroot out of RAM.  Note: The USB key ring is a hideously slow 
device, but for the sake of this proof of concept it works fine.  In 
addition, some more packages will need to be added later on (i.e. NFS, 
Samba?) which will increase the footprint.

My ultimate goal here would be to demonstrate a network storage 
appliance using ZFS, where the OS is effectively stateless, or as 
stateless as possible.  ZFS goes a long way in assisting here since, for 
example, mount and nfs share information can be managed by ZFS.  But I 
suppose it''s not as stateless as I thought.  Upon booting from USB 
device into memory, I can do a `zpool create poo1 c1d0'',  but a 
subsequent reboot does not remember this work.  Doing a `zpool list'' 
yields ''no pools available''.  So the question is, what sort of
state is
required between reboots for ZFS?

Regards,
-- Jim C

You need the following file:

	/etc/zfs/zpool.cache

This file ''knows'' about all the pools on the system.  These
pools can
typically be discovered via ''zpool import'', but we
can''t do this at boot
because:

a. It can be really, really expensive (tasting every disk on the system)
b. Pools can be comprised of files or devices not in /dev/dsk

So, we have the cache file, which must be editable if you want to
remember newly created pools.  Note this only affects configuration
changes to pools - everything else is stored within the pool itself.

- Eric

On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 12:18:07PM -0400, Jim Connors
wrote:
> Guys,
> 
> Thanks for the help so far,  now comes the more interesting questions ...
> 
> Piggybacking off of some work being done to minimize Solaris for 
> embedded use, I have a version of Solaris 10 U2 with ZFS functionality 
> with a disk footprint of about 60MB.   Creating a miniroot based upon 
> this image, it can be compressed to under 30MB.  Currently, I load this 
> image onto a USB keyring and boot from the USB device running the 
> Solaris miniroot out of RAM.  Note: The USB key ring is a hideously slow 
> device, but for the sake of this proof of concept it works fine.  In 
> addition, some more packages will need to be added later on (i.e. NFS, 
> Samba?) which will increase the footprint.
> 
> My ultimate goal here would be to demonstrate a network storage 
> appliance using ZFS, where the OS is effectively stateless, or as 
> stateless as possible.  ZFS goes a long way in assisting here since, for 
> example, mount and nfs share information can be managed by ZFS.  But I 
> suppose it''s not as stateless as I thought.  Upon booting from USB
> device into memory, I can do a `zpool create poo1 c1d0'',  but a 
> subsequent reboot does not remember this work.  Doing a `zpool
list''
> yields ''no pools available''.  So the question is, what
sort of state is
> required between reboots for ZFS?
> 
> Regards,
> -- Jim C
--
Eric Schrock, Solaris Kernel Development       http://blogs.sun.com/eschrock

I understand.  Thanks.

Just curious, ZFS manages NFS shares.  Have you given any thought to 
what might be involved for ZFS to manage SMB shares in the same manner.  
This all goes towards my "stateless OS" theme.

-- Jim C


Eric Schrock wrote:
> You need the following file:
>
> 	/etc/zfs/zpool.cache
>
> This file ''knows'' about all the pools on the system. 
These pools can
> typically be discovered via ''zpool import'', but we
can''t do this at boot
> because:
>
> a. It can be really, really expensive (tasting every disk on the system)
> b. Pools can be comprised of files or devices not in /dev/dsk
>
> So, we have the cache file, which must be editable if you want to
> remember newly created pools.  Note this only affects configuration
> changes to pools - everything else is stored within the pool itself.
>
> - Eric
>
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 12:18:07PM -0400, Jim Connors wrote:
>   
>> Guys,
>>
>> Thanks for the help so far,  now comes the more interesting questions
...
>>
>> Piggybacking off of some work being done to minimize Solaris for 
>> embedded use, I have a version of Solaris 10 U2 with ZFS functionality 
>> with a disk footprint of about 60MB.   Creating a miniroot based upon 
>> this image, it can be compressed to under 30MB.  Currently, I load this
>> image onto a USB keyring and boot from the USB device running the 
>> Solaris miniroot out of RAM.  Note: The USB key ring is a hideously
slow
>> device, but for the sake of this proof of concept it works fine.  In 
>> addition, some more packages will need to be added later on (i.e. NFS, 
>> Samba?) which will increase the footprint.
>>
>> My ultimate goal here would be to demonstrate a network storage 
>> appliance using ZFS, where the OS is effectively stateless, or as 
>> stateless as possible.  ZFS goes a long way in assisting here since,
for
>> example, mount and nfs share information can be managed by ZFS.  But I 
>> suppose it''s not as stateless as I thought.  Upon booting from
USB
>> device into memory, I can do a `zpool create poo1 c1d0'',  but
a
>> subsequent reboot does not remember this work.  Doing a `zpool
list''
>> yields ''no pools available''.  So the question is,
what sort of state is
>> required between reboots for ZFS?
>>
>> Regards,
>> -- Jim C
>>     
>
> --
> Eric Schrock, Solaris Kernel Development      
http://blogs.sun.com/eschrock
>

On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 01:07:59PM -0400, Jim Connors
wrote:
> 
> I understand.  Thanks.
> 
> Just curious, ZFS manages NFS shares.  Have you given any thought to 
> what might be involved for ZFS to manage SMB shares in the same manner.  
> This all goes towards my "stateless OS" theme.
Yep, this is in the works.  We have folks working on an integrted CIFS
stack, as well as a rewrite of the way shares are managed.  We named the
property ''sharenfs'' to allow for future, non-NFS share
mechanisms.  Once
the above work is nearing completion, we''ll work on integrating closely
with the ZFS administration model.

- Eric

--
Eric Schrock, Solaris Kernel Development       http://blogs.sun.com/eschrock

Eric Schrock wrote:
> You need the following file:
>
> 	/etc/zfs/zpool.cache
>   
So as a workaround (or more appropriately, a kludge) would it be 
possible to:

1. At boot time do a ''zpool import'' of some pool guaranteed to
exist.
For the sake of this discussion call it ''system''

2. Have /etc/zfs/zpool.cache be symbolically linked to /system/ZPOOL.CACHE

-- Jim C
> This file ''knows'' about all the pools on the system. 
These pools can
> typically be discovered via ''zpool import'', but we
can''t do this at boot
> because:
>
> a. It can be really, really expensive (tasting every disk on the system)
> b. Pools can be comprised of files or devices not in /dev/dsk
>
> So, we have the cache file, which must be editable if you want to
> remember newly created pools.  Note this only affects configuration
> changes to pools - everything else is stored within the pool itself.
>
> - Eric
>
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 12:18:07PM -0400, Jim Connors wrote:
>   
>> Guys,
>>
>> Thanks for the help so far,  now comes the more interesting questions
...
>>
>> Piggybacking off of some work being done to minimize Solaris for 
>> embedded use, I have a version of Solaris 10 U2 with ZFS functionality 
>> with a disk footprint of about 60MB.   Creating a miniroot based upon 
>> this image, it can be compressed to under 30MB.  Currently, I load this
>> image onto a USB keyring and boot from the USB device running the 
>> Solaris miniroot out of RAM.  Note: The USB key ring is a hideously
slow
>> device, but for the sake of this proof of concept it works fine.  In 
>> addition, some more packages will need to be added later on (i.e. NFS, 
>> Samba?) which will increase the footprint.
>>
>> My ultimate goal here would be to demonstrate a network storage 
>> appliance using ZFS, where the OS is effectively stateless, or as 
>> stateless as possible.  ZFS goes a long way in assisting here since,
for
>> example, mount and nfs share information can be managed by ZFS.  But I 
>> suppose it''s not as stateless as I thought.  Upon booting from
USB
>> device into memory, I can do a `zpool create poo1 c1d0'',  but
a
>> subsequent reboot does not remember this work.  Doing a `zpool
list''
>> yields ''no pools available''.  So the question is,
what sort of state is
>> required between reboots for ZFS?
>>
>> Regards,
>> -- Jim C
>>     
>
> --
> Eric Schrock, Solaris Kernel Development      
http://blogs.sun.com/eschrock
>