I know that some people have been against Sun preinstalling Solaris in the factory. It looks like that argument is over. China is mandating that all computers sold must have a legal OS installed on them. http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,110390,00.html?source=NLT_PM&nid=110390 -- richard This message posted from opensolaris.org
Not to start a political war, and I do agree Solaris should be pre-installed (it''s easy enough to wipe for those who want to) but the simple fact China is mandating computers have a legal OS on them isn''t a good argument. To argue with that basis, you would simply be saying money is the only factor that matters in decision making. There are *tons* of other valid reasons for pre-installation of Solaris, and I really think those should be the deciding factors... I realize a public copmany''s position is to benefit the stakeholders, but it obviously shouldn''t be done blindly. Making poor decisions in order to maximize short term potential == still making poor decisions. We''ve already got enough companies with issues due to decision making processes that eliminate reasoning and simply focus on *where the money is*. So, I agree Solaris should be pre-installed, but I do not agree that this is a good reason/justification for it. I would suggest sticking to technical/logical reasoning when possible, and it is quite possible in this case. Defaulting on "China says we have to - so there is no more argument" is a cop-out intellectually as far as I''m concerned, especially when there are *many* valid reasons to base your decision on. I won''t even get into the whole political can of worms that this kind of statement opens concerning China''s relationship with the US. I''d just suggest staying away from such topics if at all possible, especially during this time period. Hopefully I didn''t come across as inflamitory, I just wanted to share my feelings and reaction to a statement like this, because I feel Sun as a company would be better served by other kinds of arguments than this. You don''t want the community you are involved in thinking all you care about is the next penny in your pocketbook, that won''t bode well for community involvement (when they aren''t the ones earning the pennies - of course!) Money is important, but let accounting deal with that - this is zfs-discuss, and this is a community of people who don''t get funded by China buying your servers. We''re here to contribute on a technical/logical level. A well thought out logical argument with technical basis (keeping the consumer in mind of course - that is what all this about) would go a long ways. I''m pretty sure the prior posts clarified a lot of the reasons pre-installation is a no-brainer. Cheers, David> I know that some people have been against Sun preinstalling > Solaris in the factory. It looks like that argument is over. China > is mandating that all computers sold must have a legal OS > installed on them. > http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,110390,00.html?source=NLT_PM&nid=110390 > > -- richard > > > This message posted from opensolaris.org > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >
I agree, and there are (and have been for a long time) plenty of good business reasons to preinstall Solaris. But there are still people who don''t want it, and I''m not referring to customers. Incidentally, it is very expensive for a global company to have different products delivered to each country. Often you will see vendors try to leverage local rules (eg. the upcoming EU RoHS requirements) across the whole world. It is often in the best interest of the vendor to reduce their internal costs. ZFS, especially once it supports boot, will help us to reduce our preinstallation and installation costs -- a good thing. -- richard This message posted from opensolaris.org
Richard Elling wrote:> I know that some people have been against Sun preinstalling > Solaris in the factory. It looks like that argument is over. China > is mandating that all computers sold must have a legal OS > installed on them. > http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,110390,00.html?source=NLT_PM&nid=110390When Dell sold the ANU Department of Computer Science some student lab machines that were destined to run Linux, we (DCS tech support) shaved a few bucks off the per-machine price and received FreeDOS on the boxes instead of paying for Windows licenses. Dell wouldn''t ship a naked PC, but they would install FreeDOS instead... presumably to satisfy some kind of OEM licensing requirements imposed by Microsoft. A Chinese PC vendor could comply with this new law just as easily as Dell complied with their Microsoft obligations. It''s a no-brainer, and I do not expect the law to force any vendor to make a significant OS choice... they will just install whichever free* OS requires the least customization to run across all the systems they sell. The customer can still treat the machine as if it was shipped with a blank hard drive, unless they happen to like EDLIN. -Jason =:^) [* as in beer; freedom is irrelevant in this case] -- Jason.Ozolins at anu.edu.au ANU Supercomputer Facility APAC Data Grid Program Leonard Huxley Bldg 56, Mills Road Ph: +61 2 6125 5449 Australian National University Fax: +61 2 6125 8199 Canberra, ACT, 0200, Australia
Jason Ozolins Write:> Richard Elling wrote: > >> I know that some people have been against Sun preinstalling >> Solaris in the factory. It looks like that argument is over. China >> is mandating that all computers sold must have a legal OS >> installed on them. >> http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,110390,00.html?source=NLT_PM&nid=110390 >> > > > When Dell sold the ANU Department of Computer Science some student lab > machines that were destined to run Linux, we (DCS tech support) shaved > a few bucks off the per-machine price and received FreeDOS on the > boxes instead of paying for Windows licenses. Dell wouldn''t ship a > naked PC, but they would install FreeDOS instead... presumably to > satisfy some kind of OEM licensing requirements imposed by Microsoft.Yes, I am in China. we order some dell PC machines just preinstalled freeDOS.> > A Chinese PC vendor could comply with this new law just as easily as > Dell complied with their Microsoft obligations. It''s a no-brainer, and > I do not expect the law to force any vendor to make a significant OS > choice... they will just install whichever free* OS requires the least > customization to run across all the systems they sell. The customer > can still treat the machine as if it was shipped with a blank hard > drive, unless they happen to like EDLIN. > > -Jason =:^) > > [* as in beer; freedom is irrelevant in this case]