Hi All- Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the primary VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA etc), without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when resetting the guest? For hardware I have an E3 v2 Xeon, Tyan S5512 board, and an ATI 7750. Thanks! David _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
I should also mention the 7750 is the *secondary* video card in the system itself, the S5512 has a built-in video card for iKVM purposes, so there should be no problem totally detaching the 7750 from the host. On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 1:33 PM, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com>wrote:> Hi All- > Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the primary VGA > card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA etc), > without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when resetting > the guest? > > For hardware I have an E3 v2 Xeon, Tyan S5512 board, and an ATI 7750. > > Thanks! > David >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
David, I don''t know if it still the case but when I tried to run one of those on board video cards in my Debian install it wouldn''t work with the Xen kernel. At the time it was a problem with the version of glibc it was compiled with. Hopefully this isn''t an issue with your Distro/Version. Shane On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 2:34 PM, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> wrote:> I should also mention the 7750 is the *secondary* video card in the system > itself, the S5512 has a built-in video card for iKVM purposes, so there > should be no problem totally detaching the 7750 from the host. > > > On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 1:33 PM, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Hi All- >> Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the primary VGA >> card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA etc), without >> crashing the guest or the host during operation or when resetting the guest? >> >> For hardware I have an E3 v2 Xeon, Tyan S5512 board, and an ATI 7750. >> >> Thanks! >> David > > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xen.org > http://lists.xen.org/xen-users-- Shane D. Johnson IT Administrator Rasmussen Equipment
Hi Shane- Thanks for the response, I played with Ubuntu/Xen a little over a year ago on this system and didn''t have a problem with the onboard video, but certainly something I need to verify on a newer distro. Thanks, David On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Shane Johnson <sdj@rasmussenequipment.com>wrote:> David, > I don''t know if it still the case but when I tried to run one of those > on board video cards in my Debian install it wouldn''t work with the > Xen kernel. At the time it was a problem with the version of glibc it > was compiled with. Hopefully this isn''t an issue with your > Distro/Version. > > Shane > > On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 2:34 PM, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> > wrote: > > I should also mention the 7750 is the *secondary* video card in the > system > > itself, the S5512 has a built-in video card for iKVM purposes, so there > > should be no problem totally detaching the 7750 from the host. > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 1:33 PM, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> Hi All- > >> Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the primary > VGA > >> card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA etc), > without > >> crashing the guest or the host during operation or when resetting the > guest? > >> > >> For hardware I have an E3 v2 Xeon, Tyan S5512 board, and an ATI 7750. > >> > >> Thanks! > >> David > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Xen-users mailing list > > Xen-users@lists.xen.org > > http://lists.xen.org/xen-users > > > > -- > Shane D. Johnson > IT Administrator > Rasmussen Equipment > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xen.org > http://lists.xen.org/xen-users >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote:> Hi All- > Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the primary > VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA etc),Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? IME this doesn''t gain you anything other than being able to see the BIOS splash screen and boot animation on the external monitor (which in itself isn''t worth the extra effort).> without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when > resetting the guest?It works fine with Nvidia Quadro cards (real or modified GeForce), provided your hardware works properly (e.g. no dodgy PCI bridges (such as Nvidia NF200) bypassing the IOMMU). The latter is, it turns out, quite rare - an awful lot of hardware seems to have IOMMU support broken to some extent. ATI cards having ongoing issues with reinitialization on domU reboots.> For hardware I have an E3 v2 Xeon, Tyan S5512 board, and an ATI 7750.I don''t recall anyone here mentioning this board so you''ll have to try it yourself and see how you get on. ATI cards are still problematic, as I mentioned. For domU rebooting you might be able to get away with setting a delayed shutdown/reboot on the command line and then ejecting the card in domU. ATI drivers still don''t seem to be clever enough to do this themselves on shutdown. Then again, I find ATI hardware sufficiently deficient to not recommend it for anything but the simplest of configurations (single monitor setups on bare metal). For anything else I find the drivers are just not fit for purpose. Gordan
On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Gordan Bobic <gordan@bobich.net> wrote:> On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote: > >> Hi All- >> Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the primary >> VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA etc), >> > > Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? IME this doesn''t > gain you anything other than being able to see the BIOS splash screen and > boot animation on the external monitor (which in itself isn''t worth the > extra effort).Primarily it is for htpc functionality like Blu-ray playback software and Digital Cablecard based playback using devices like a HDHR Prime. I believe the code that tests for playready (or equivalent) compatibility always looks at the primary video card and finds it totally missing any of these features and refuses to play back properly. I need to verify that having a passed through card as the primary actually solves these issues, but I think it is a reasonable hunch (unless anyone else has already tried this and proved it wrong).> > > without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when >> resetting the guest? >> > > It works fine with Nvidia Quadro cards (real or modified GeForce), > provided your hardware works properly (e.g. no dodgy PCI bridges (such as > Nvidia NF200) bypassing the IOMMU). The latter is, it turns out, quite rare > - an awful lot of hardware seems to have IOMMU support broken to some > extent. >Is there something special in the bios/firmware that is enabled when converting these to Quadros? I could pick one up but I prefer to have a low power single slot card for a low power htpc, and I''m not sure I''ve seen anything that can be converted to a Quadro fall into this category.> > ATI cards having ongoing issues with reinitialization on domU reboots. > > > For hardware I have an E3 v2 Xeon, Tyan S5512 board, and an ATI 7750. >> > > I don''t recall anyone here mentioning this board so you''ll have to try it > yourself and see how you get on. ATI cards are still problematic, as I > mentioned. For domU rebooting you might be able to get away with setting a > delayed shutdown/reboot on the command line and then ejecting the card in > domU. ATI drivers still don''t seem to be clever enough to do this > themselves on shutdown. Then again, I find ATI hardware sufficiently > deficient to not recommend it for anything but the simplest of > configurations (single monitor setups on bare metal). For anything else I > find the drivers are just not fit for purpose. >Ya I hate to deal with nasty hacks like that, but if there were some scripted way to trigger a shutdown I suppose I could get behind that. Thanks for the feedback! -David _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 00:04:33 -0700, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> wrote:> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Gordan Bobic wrote: > > On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote: > Hi All- > Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the > primary > VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA > etc), > > Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? IME this > doesn't gain you anything other than being able to see the BIOS > splash > screen and boot animation on the external monitor (which in itself > isn't worth the extra effort). > > Primarily it is for htpc functionality like Blu-ray playback software > and Digital Cablecard based playback using devices like a HDHR > Prime. I believe the code that tests for playready (or equivalent) > compatibility always looks at the primary video card and finds it > totally missing any of these features and refuses to play back > properly. I need to verify that having a passed through card as the > primary actually solves these issues, but I think it is a reasonable > hunch (unless anyone else has already tried this and proved it > wrong).I never used it so cannot comment on it. David Techer maintains a patch set for Nvidia cards that include primary passthrough support. The one in particular you will need is the one that gives the VBIOS loading supprot in domU. Between that and a GTX480 modified to a Quadro 6000 (VBIOS editing required) you _might_ just be able to get it to work. I never tried primary passthrough since secondary passthrough has always worked for all of my requirements.> without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when > resetting the guest? > > It works fine with Nvidia Quadro cards (real or modified GeForce), > provided your hardware works properly (e.g. no dodgy PCI bridges > (such > as Nvidia NF200) bypassing the IOMMU). The latter is, it turns out, > quite rare - an awful lot of hardware seems to have IOMMU support > broken to some extent. > > Is there something special in the bios/firmware that is enabled when > converting these to Quadros?You have to modify the strap bits. This can be done with a BIOS edit on cards up to GTX480, or with some soldering on a GTX680 (you will need good eyes, steady hands, high quality soldering paste and some pro grade soldering kit (hot air or oven - you might be able to get away with a really tiny soldering tip, but bear in mind that you will be looking at soldering both ends of a resistor that is 1mm long, without shorting it out). If you want the easy option, go for a GTX480 and BIOS mod it (or a GTX470 -> Quadro 5000 or a GTS450 (make sure you get a 1GB GDDR5 one) -> Quadro 2000 I have used all of the above extensively without any issues). Gordan _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Gordan Bobic <gordan@bobich.net> wrote:> On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 00:04:33 -0700, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Gordan Bobic wrote: >> >> >> On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote: >> Hi All- >> Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the primary >> VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA >> etc), >> >> Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? IME this >> doesn''t gain you anything other than being able to see the BIOS splash >> screen and boot animation on the external monitor (which in itself >> isn''t worth the extra effort). >> >> Primarily it is for htpc functionality like Blu-ray playback software >> and Digital Cablecard based playback using devices like a HDHR >> Prime. I believe the code that tests for playready (or equivalent) >> compatibility always looks at the primary video card and finds it >> totally missing any of these features and refuses to play back >> properly. I need to verify that having a passed through card as the >> primary actually solves these issues, but I think it is a reasonable >> hunch (unless anyone else has already tried this and proved it wrong). >> > > I never used it so cannot comment on it. David Techer maintains a > patch set for Nvidia cards that include primary passthrough support. > The one in particular you will need is the one that gives the VBIOS > loading supprot in domU. Between that and a GTX480 modified to a > Quadro 6000 (VBIOS editing required) you _might_ just be able > to get it to work. I never tried primary passthrough since secondary > passthrough has always worked for all of my requirements. >Theres actually two seperate patch sets out there that i''ve seen, one for ATI and one for Nvidia; the ATI patchset appears to be dynamic in nature, whereas the Nvidia set require you to dump the VBIOS and compile a copy of it into the qemu code. Regards, David> >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Gordan Bobic <gordan@bobich.net> wrote:> On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 00:04:33 -0700, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Gordan Bobic wrote: >> >> >> On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote: >> Hi All- >> Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the primary >> VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA >> etc), >> >> Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? IME this >> doesn''t gain you anything other than being able to see the BIOS splash >> screen and boot animation on the external monitor (which in itself >> isn''t worth the extra effort). >> >> Primarily it is for htpc functionality like Blu-ray playback software >> and Digital Cablecard based playback using devices like a HDHR >> Prime. I believe the code that tests for playready (or equivalent) >> compatibility always looks at the primary video card and finds it >> totally missing any of these features and refuses to play back >> properly. I need to verify that having a passed through card as the >> primary actually solves these issues, but I think it is a reasonable >> hunch (unless anyone else has already tried this and proved it wrong). >> > > I never used it so cannot comment on it. David Techer maintains a > patch set for Nvidia cards that include primary passthrough support. > The one in particular you will need is the one that gives the VBIOS > loading supprot in domU. Between that and a GTX480 modified to a > Quadro 6000 (VBIOS editing required) you _might_ just be able > to get it to work. I never tried primary passthrough since secondary > passthrough has always worked for all of my requirements. > > > without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when >> resetting the guest? >> >> It works fine with Nvidia Quadro cards (real or modified GeForce), >> provided your hardware works properly (e.g. no dodgy PCI bridges (such >> as Nvidia NF200) bypassing the IOMMU). The latter is, it turns out, >> quite rare - an awful lot of hardware seems to have IOMMU support >> broken to some extent. >> >> Is there something special in the bios/firmware that is enabled when >> converting these to Quadros? >> > > You have to modify the strap bits. This can be done with a BIOS edit > on cards up to GTX480, or with some soldering on a GTX680 (you will > need good eyes, steady hands, high quality soldering paste and some > pro grade soldering kit (hot air or oven - you might be able to > get away with a really tiny soldering tip, but bear in mind that > you will be looking at soldering both ends of a resistor that is 1mm > long, without shorting it out). If you want the easy option, go > for a GTX480 and BIOS mod it (or a GTX470 -> Quadro 5000 or a > GTS450 (make sure you get a 1GB GDDR5 one) -> Quadro 2000 I have > used all of the above extensively without any issues). >Thanks Gordon, I probably wasn''t clear in my question, but when you convert it from a standard Geforce => Quadro, what is changing at the card level to make it more compatible with PCI Passthrough and Xen? Is it some feature of the new firmware that is being flashed to the card? And do Geforce cards just absolutely not work at all prior to being converted to Quadros? _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 09:20:51 -0700, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> wrote:> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Gordan Bobic wrote: > On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 00:04:33 -0700, David Erickson wrote: > On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Gordan Bobic wrote: > > On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote: > Hi All- > Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the > primary > VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA > etc), > > Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? IME this > doesn't gain you anything other than being able to see the BIOS > splash > screen and boot animation on the external monitor (which in itself > isn't worth the extra effort). > > Primarily it is for htpc functionality like Blu-ray playback > software > and Digital Cablecard based playback using devices like a HDHR > Prime. I believe the code that tests for playready (or equivalent) > compatibility always looks at the primary video card and finds it > totally missing any of these features and refuses to play back > properly. I need to verify that having a passed through card as the > primary actually solves these issues, but I think it is a reasonable > hunch (unless anyone else has already tried this and proved it > wrong). > > I never used it so cannot comment on it. David Techer maintains a > patch set for Nvidia cards that include primary passthrough support. > The one in particular you will need is the one that gives the VBIOS > loading supprot in domU. Between that and a GTX480 modified to a > Quadro 6000 (VBIOS editing required) you _might_ just be able > to get it to work. I never tried primary passthrough since secondary > passthrough has always worked for all of my requirements. > > without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when > resetting the guest? > > It works fine with Nvidia Quadro cards (real or modified GeForce), > provided your hardware works properly (e.g. no dodgy PCI bridges > (such > as Nvidia NF200) bypassing the IOMMU). The latter is, it turns out, > quite rare - an awful lot of hardware seems to have IOMMU support > broken to some extent. > > Is there something special in the bios/firmware that is enabled when > converting these to Quadros? > > You have to modify the strap bits. This can be done with a BIOS edit > on cards up to GTX480, or with some soldering on a GTX680 (you will > need good eyes, steady hands, high quality soldering paste and some > pro grade soldering kit (hot air or oven - you might be able to > get away with a really tiny soldering tip, but bear in mind that > you will be looking at soldering both ends of a resistor that is 1mm > long, without shorting it out). If you want the easy option, go > for a GTX480 and BIOS mod it (or a GTX470 -> Quadro 5000 or a > GTS450 (make sure you get a 1GB GDDR5 one) -> Quadro 2000 I have > used all of the above extensively without any issues). > > Thanks Gordon, I probably wasn't clear in my question, but when you > convert it from a standard Geforce => Quadro, what is changing at the > card level to make it more compatible with PCI Passthrough and Xen?GeForce drivers don't implement support for various quirks and side-effects of running in a VM. Quadro drivers do. You change the PCI ID of the card by modifying the straps. That makes the card get detected as a Quadro rather than a GeForce, and the Quadro driver deals with the quirkyness and side-effects of running in a VM (e.g. the fact that the physical BARs differ from the virtual BARs). The hardware between the GeForce and the Quadro is by and large the same. The reason for the modification is to convince the Quadro driver the card really is a Quadro and that you paid an extra pile of cash for the privilege of running it in VGA passthrough.> Is it some feature of the new firmware that is being flashed to the > card?No, it's a hack to facilitate the use a driver that can handle running in a VM.> And do Geforce cards just absolutely not work at all prior to > being converted to Quadros?GeForce cards absolutely do not work with VGA passthrough without modifications; at least not without an additional, unsupported patch set which doesn't work for recent cards (4xx cards work, not sure about the more recent ones), recent drivers (more recent than 275.xx), and recent OS-es (more recent than XP). And unless your time really is worthless, getting a GeForce 4xx series card and modifying it once with no other side effects is a lot less effort than maintaining your own build of Xen packages with the extra patches, even if they do work for your specific use-case. Gordan _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Gordan Bobic <gordan@bobich.net> wrote:> On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 09:20:51 -0700, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Gordan Bobic wrote: >> On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 00:04:33 -0700, David Erickson wrote: >> >> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Gordan Bobic wrote: >> >> On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote: >> Hi All- >> Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the >> primary >> VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA >> etc), >> >> Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? IME this >> doesn''t gain you anything other than being able to see the BIOS >> splash >> screen and boot animation on the external monitor (which in itself >> isn''t worth the extra effort). >> >> Primarily it is for htpc functionality like Blu-ray playback software >> and Digital Cablecard based playback using devices like a HDHR >> Prime. I believe the code that tests for playready (or equivalent) >> compatibility always looks at the primary video card and finds it >> totally missing any of these features and refuses to play back >> properly. I need to verify that having a passed through card as the >> primary actually solves these issues, but I think it is a reasonable >> hunch (unless anyone else has already tried this and proved it >> wrong). >> >> I never used it so cannot comment on it. David Techer maintains a >> patch set for Nvidia cards that include primary passthrough support. >> The one in particular you will need is the one that gives the VBIOS >> loading supprot in domU. Between that and a GTX480 modified to a >> Quadro 6000 (VBIOS editing required) you _might_ just be able >> to get it to work. I never tried primary passthrough since secondary >> passthrough has always worked for all of my requirements. >> >> without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when >> resetting the guest? >> >> It works fine with Nvidia Quadro cards (real or modified GeForce), >> provided your hardware works properly (e.g. no dodgy PCI bridges >> (such >> as Nvidia NF200) bypassing the IOMMU). The latter is, it turns out, >> quite rare - an awful lot of hardware seems to have IOMMU support >> broken to some extent. >> >> Is there something special in the bios/firmware that is enabled when >> converting these to Quadros? >> >> You have to modify the strap bits. This can be done with a BIOS edit >> on cards up to GTX480, or with some soldering on a GTX680 (you will >> need good eyes, steady hands, high quality soldering paste and some >> pro grade soldering kit (hot air or oven - you might be able to >> get away with a really tiny soldering tip, but bear in mind that >> you will be looking at soldering both ends of a resistor that is 1mm >> long, without shorting it out). If you want the easy option, go >> for a GTX480 and BIOS mod it (or a GTX470 -> Quadro 5000 or a >> GTS450 (make sure you get a 1GB GDDR5 one) -> Quadro 2000 I have >> used all of the above extensively without any issues). >> >> Thanks Gordon, I probably wasn''t clear in my question, but when you >> convert it from a standard Geforce => Quadro, what is changing at the >> card level to make it more compatible with PCI Passthrough and Xen? >> > > GeForce drivers don''t implement support for various quirks and > side-effects of running in a VM. Quadro drivers do. You change the > PCI ID of the card by modifying the straps. That makes the card get > detected as a Quadro rather than a GeForce, and the Quadro driver > deals with the quirkyness and side-effects of running in a VM (e.g. > the fact that the physical BARs differ from the virtual BARs). > > The hardware between the GeForce and the Quadro is by and large > the same. The reason for the modification is to convince the Quadro > driver the card really is a Quadro and that you paid an extra pile > of cash for the privilege of running it in VGA passthrough. > > > Is it some feature of the new firmware that is being flashed to the >> card? >> > > No, it''s a hack to facilitate the use a driver that can handle running > in a VM. > > > And do Geforce cards just absolutely not work at all prior to >> being converted to Quadros? >> > > GeForce cards absolutely do not work with VGA passthrough without > modifications; at least not without an additional, unsupported patch > set which doesn''t work for recent cards (4xx cards work, not sure > about the more recent ones), recent drivers (more recent than 275.xx), > and recent OS-es (more recent than XP). > > And unless your time really is worthless, getting a GeForce 4xx series > card and modifying it once with no other side effects is a lot less > effort than maintaining your own build of Xen packages with the extra > patches, even if they do work for your specific use-case. >Thanks that made it very clear, and I totally agree on the time point. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
Gordan is right. In the past patches maintenance for NVIDIA was a real pain. That''s the reason why I stopped to maintain those patches in February, 2013. 1) Soft-moding a GTX 480 to a Quadro 6000 aims at unlocking the expected feature on the card http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-soft-moded-to-quadro-6000 I tested on two GTX 480 cards and it works very well. Just a bios to edit/update. Check the checksum and updates straps bits 2) Hard-moding a GTX 680 to a 1/2 GRID K2 works very well too. I tested it on a Gigabyte GV-N680OC-2GD...it works like a charm 3) Hard-moding a GTX 670 to a 1/2 GRID K2 works very well too. I tested it on the MSI N670GTX-PM2D2GD5/OC...it works like a charm (just a few resistors to remove) http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-successfully-hard-moded-to-grid-k2 This card has a similar PCB than Asus card provided/tested on the eevblog forum http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534 ________________________________ De : David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> À : Gordan Bobic <gordan@bobich.net> Cc : "xen-users@lists.xen.org" <xen-users@lists.xen.org> Envoyé le : Mardi 8 octobre 2013 20h56 Objet : Re: [Xen-users] Primary VGA Passthrough Status On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Gordan Bobic <gordan@bobich.net> wrote: On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 09:20:51 -0700, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> wrote:> >On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Gordan Bobic wrote: >> On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 00:04:33 -0700, David Erickson wrote: >> >> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Gordan Bobic wrote: >> >> On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote: >> Hi All- >> Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the >>primary >> VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA >> etc), >> >> Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? IME this >> doesn''t gain you anything other than being able to see the BIOS >>splash >> screen and boot animation on the external monitor (which in itself >> isn''t worth the extra effort). >> >> Primarily it is for htpc functionality like Blu-ray playback software >> and Digital Cablecard based playback using devices like a HDHR >> Prime. I believe the code that tests for playready (or equivalent) >> compatibility always looks at the primary video card and finds it >> totally missing any of these features and refuses to play back >> properly. I need to verify that having a passed through card as the >> primary actually solves these issues, but I think it is a reasonable >> hunch (unless anyone else has already tried this and proved it >>wrong). >> >> I never used it so cannot comment on it. David Techer maintains a >> patch set for Nvidia cards that include primary passthrough support. >> The one in particular you will need is the one that gives the VBIOS >> loading supprot in domU. Between that and a GTX480 modified to a >> Quadro 6000 (VBIOS editing required) you _might_ just be able >> to get it to work. I never tried primary passthrough since secondary >> passthrough has always worked for all of my requirements. >> >> without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when >> resetting the guest? >> >> It works fine with Nvidia Quadro cards (real or modified GeForce), >> provided your hardware works properly (e.g. no dodgy PCI bridges >>(such >> as Nvidia NF200) bypassing the IOMMU). The latter is, it turns out, >> quite rare - an awful lot of hardware seems to have IOMMU support >> broken to some extent. >> >> Is there something special in the bios/firmware that is enabled when >> converting these to Quadros? >> >> You have to modify the strap bits. This can be done with a BIOS edit >> on cards up to GTX480, or with some soldering on a GTX680 (you will >> need good eyes, steady hands, high quality soldering paste and some >> pro grade soldering kit (hot air or oven - you might be able to >> get away with a really tiny soldering tip, but bear in mind that >> you will be looking at soldering both ends of a resistor that is 1mm >> long, without shorting it out). If you want the easy option, go >> for a GTX480 and BIOS mod it (or a GTX470 -> Quadro 5000 or a >> GTS450 (make sure you get a 1GB GDDR5 one) -> Quadro 2000 I have >> used all of the above extensively without any issues). >> >>Thanks Gordon, I probably wasn''t clear in my question, but when you >>convert it from a standard Geforce => Quadro, what is changing at the >>card level to make it more compatible with PCI Passthrough and Xen? >> >GeForce drivers don''t implement support for various quirks and >side-effects of running in a VM. Quadro drivers do. You change the >PCI ID of the card by modifying the straps. That makes the card get >detected as a Quadro rather than a GeForce, and the Quadro driver >deals with the quirkyness and side-effects of running in a VM (e.g. >the fact that the physical BARs differ from the virtual BARs). > >The hardware between the GeForce and the Quadro is by and large >the same. The reason for the modification is to convince the Quadro >driver the card really is a Quadro and that you paid an extra pile >of cash for the privilege of running it in VGA passthrough. > > > >Is it some feature of the new firmware that is being flashed to the >>card? >> >No, it''s a hack to facilitate the use a driver that can handle running>in a VM. > > > >And do Geforce cards just absolutely not work at all prior to >>being converted to Quadros? >> >GeForce cards absolutely do not work with VGA passthrough without>modifications; at least not without an additional, unsupported patch >set which doesn''t work for recent cards (4xx cards work, not sure >about the more recent ones), recent drivers (more recent than 275.xx), >and recent OS-es (more recent than XP). > >And unless your time really is worthless, getting a GeForce 4xx series >card and modifying it once with no other side effects is a lot less >effort than maintaining your own build of Xen packages with the extra >patches, even if they do work for your specific use-case. >Thanks that made it very clear, and I totally agree on the time point. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
David or Gordon have you tried this on lower end cards like a GT 640? (Maybe there isn''t a Quadro even close to flash it to). These cards are major overkill for a non-gaming HTPC. Thanks! David On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 3:22 PM, David TECHER <davidtecher@yahoo.fr> wrote:> Gordan is right. > > In the past patches maintenance for NVIDIA was a real pain. That''s the > reason why I stopped to maintain those patches in February, 2013. > > 1) Soft-moding a GTX 480 to a Quadro 6000 aims at unlocking the expected > feature on the card > > > http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-soft-moded-to-quadro-6000 > > I tested on two GTX 480 cards and it works very well. Just a bios to > edit/update. Check the checksum and updates straps bits > > 2) Hard-moding a GTX 680 to a 1/2 GRID K2 works very well too. I tested it > on a Gigabyte GV-N680OC-2GD...it works like a charm > > 3) Hard-moding a GTX 670 to a 1/2 GRID K2 works very well too. I tested it > on the MSI N670GTX-PM2D2GD5/OC...it works like a charm (just a few > resistors to remove) > > > http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-successfully-hard-moded-to-grid-k2 > > This card has a similar PCB than Asus card provided/tested on the eevblog > forum > > > http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *De :* David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> > *À :* Gordan Bobic <gordan@bobich.net> > *Cc :* "xen-users@lists.xen.org" <xen-users@lists.xen.org> > *Envoyé le :* Mardi 8 octobre 2013 20h56 > *Objet :* Re: [Xen-users] Primary VGA Passthrough Status > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Gordan Bobic <gordan@bobich.net> wrote: > > On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 09:20:51 -0700, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> > wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Gordan Bobic wrote: > On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 00:04:33 -0700, David Erickson wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Gordan Bobic wrote: > > On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote: > Hi All- > Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the > primary > VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there (DXVA > etc), > > Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? IME this > doesn''t gain you anything other than being able to see the BIOS > splash > screen and boot animation on the external monitor (which in itself > isn''t worth the extra effort). > > Primarily it is for htpc functionality like Blu-ray playback software > and Digital Cablecard based playback using devices like a HDHR > Prime. I believe the code that tests for playready (or equivalent) > compatibility always looks at the primary video card and finds it > totally missing any of these features and refuses to play back > properly. I need to verify that having a passed through card as the > primary actually solves these issues, but I think it is a reasonable > hunch (unless anyone else has already tried this and proved it > wrong). > > I never used it so cannot comment on it. David Techer maintains a > patch set for Nvidia cards that include primary passthrough support. > The one in particular you will need is the one that gives the VBIOS > loading supprot in domU. Between that and a GTX480 modified to a > Quadro 6000 (VBIOS editing required) you _might_ just be able > to get it to work. I never tried primary passthrough since secondary > passthrough has always worked for all of my requirements. > > without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when > resetting the guest? > > It works fine with Nvidia Quadro cards (real or modified GeForce), > provided your hardware works properly (e.g. no dodgy PCI bridges > (such > as Nvidia NF200) bypassing the IOMMU). The latter is, it turns out, > quite rare - an awful lot of hardware seems to have IOMMU support > broken to some extent. > > Is there something special in the bios/firmware that is enabled when > converting these to Quadros? > > You have to modify the strap bits. This can be done with a BIOS edit > on cards up to GTX480, or with some soldering on a GTX680 (you will > need good eyes, steady hands, high quality soldering paste and some > pro grade soldering kit (hot air or oven - you might be able to > get away with a really tiny soldering tip, but bear in mind that > you will be looking at soldering both ends of a resistor that is 1mm > long, without shorting it out). If you want the easy option, go > for a GTX480 and BIOS mod it (or a GTX470 -> Quadro 5000 or a > GTS450 (make sure you get a 1GB GDDR5 one) -> Quadro 2000 I have > used all of the above extensively without any issues). > > Thanks Gordon, I probably wasn''t clear in my question, but when you > convert it from a standard Geforce => Quadro, what is changing at the > card level to make it more compatible with PCI Passthrough and Xen? > > > GeForce drivers don''t implement support for various quirks and > side-effects of running in a VM. Quadro drivers do. You change the > PCI ID of the card by modifying the straps. That makes the card get > detected as a Quadro rather than a GeForce, and the Quadro driver > deals with the quirkyness and side-effects of running in a VM (e.g. > the fact that the physical BARs differ from the virtual BARs). > > The hardware between the GeForce and the Quadro is by and large > the same. The reason for the modification is to convince the Quadro > driver the card really is a Quadro and that you paid an extra pile > of cash for the privilege of running it in VGA passthrough. > > > Is it some feature of the new firmware that is being flashed to the > card? > > > No, it''s a hack to facilitate the use a driver that can handle running > in a VM. > > > And do Geforce cards just absolutely not work at all prior to > being converted to Quadros? > > > GeForce cards absolutely do not work with VGA passthrough without > modifications; at least not without an additional, unsupported patch > set which doesn''t work for recent cards (4xx cards work, not sure > about the more recent ones), recent drivers (more recent than 275.xx), > and recent OS-es (more recent than XP). > > And unless your time really is worthless, getting a GeForce 4xx series > card and modifying it once with no other side effects is a lot less > effort than maintaining your own build of Xen packages with the extra > patches, even if they do work for your specific use-case. > > > > Thanks that made it very clear, and I totally agree on the time point. > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xen.org > http://lists.xen.org/xen-users > > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
If you are after a low end card, you might as well just buy a genuine Quadro 2000. It's single-slot, powered from the slot (no auxiliary power required), should be ample for a HTPC, and will "just work". And they are cheap enough on ebay that it's not worth trying to cut a corner. On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 17:49:35 -0700, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> wrote:> David or Gordon have you tried this on lower end cards like a GT > 640? (Maybe there isn't a Quadro even close to flash it to). These > cards are major overkill for a non-gaming HTPC. > > Thanks! > David > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 3:22 PM, David TECHER wrote: > > Gordan is right. > > In the past patches maintenance for NVIDIA was a real pain. That's > the > reason why I stopped to maintain those patches in February, 2013. > > 1) Soft-moding a GTX 480 to a Quadro 6000 aims at unlocking the > expected feature on the card > > > http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-soft-moded-to-quadro-6000 > [2] > > I tested on two GTX 480 cards and it works very well. Just a bios to > edit/update. Check the checksum and updates straps bits > > 2) Hard-moding a GTX 680 to a 1/2 GRID K2 works very well too. I > tested it on a Gigabyte GV-N680OC-2GD...it works like a charm > > 3) Hard-moding a GTX 670 to a 1/2 GRID K2 works very well too. I > tested it on the MSI N670GTX-PM2D2GD5/OC...it works like a charm > (just > a few resistors to remove) > > > http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-successfully-hard-moded-to-grid-k2 > [3] > > This card has a similar PCB than Asus card provided/tested on the > eevblog forum > > > http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534 > [4] > > ------------------------- > DE : David Erickson > À : Gordan Bobic > CC : "xen-users@lists.xen.org [7]" > ENVOYÉ LE : Mardi 8 octobre 2013 20h56 > OBJET : Re: [Xen-users] Primary VGA Passthrough Status > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Gordan Bobic wrote: > On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 09:20:51 -0700, David Erickson wrote: > On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Gordan Bobic wrote: > On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 00:04:33 -0700, David Erickson wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Gordan Bobic wrote: > > On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote: > Hi All- > Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the > primary > VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there > (DXVA > etc), > > Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? IME this > doesn't gain you anything other than being able to see the BIOS > splash > screen and boot animation on the external monitor (which in itself > isn't worth the extra effort). > > Primarily it is for htpc functionality like Blu-ray playback > software > and Digital Cablecard based playback using devices like a HDHR > Prime. I believe the code that tests for playready (or > equivalent) > compatibility always looks at the primary video card and finds it > totally missing any of these features and refuses to play back > properly. I need to verify that having a passed through card as > the > primary actually solves these issues, but I think it is a > reasonable > hunch (unless anyone else has already tried this and proved it > wrong). > > I never used it so cannot comment on it. David Techer maintains a > patch set for Nvidia cards that include primary passthrough > support. > The one in particular you will need is the one that gives the VBIOS > loading supprot in domU. Between that and a GTX480 modified to a > Quadro 6000 (VBIOS editing required) you _might_ just be able > to get it to work. I never tried primary passthrough since > secondary > passthrough has always worked for all of my requirements. > > without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when > resetting the guest? > > It works fine with Nvidia Quadro cards (real or modified > GeForce), > provided your hardware works properly (e.g. no dodgy PCI bridges > (such > as Nvidia NF200) bypassing the IOMMU). The latter is, it turns out, > quite rare - an awful lot of hardware seems to have IOMMU support > broken to some extent. > > Is there something special in the bios/firmware that is enabled > when > converting these to Quadros? > > You have to modify the strap bits. This can be done with a BIOS > edit > on cards up to GTX480, or with some soldering on a GTX680 (you will > need good eyes, steady hands, high quality soldering paste and some > pro grade soldering kit (hot air or oven - you might be able to > get away with a really tiny soldering tip, but bear in mind that > you will be looking at soldering both ends of a resistor that is > 1mm > long, without shorting it out). If you want the easy option, go > for a GTX480 and BIOS mod it (or a GTX470 -> Quadro 5000 or a > GTS450 (make sure you get a 1GB GDDR5 one) -> Quadro 2000 I have > used all of the above extensively without any issues). > > Thanks Gordon, I probably wasn't clear in my question, but when you > convert it from a standard Geforce => Quadro, what is changing at > the > card level to make it more compatible with PCI Passthrough and Xen? > > GeForce drivers don't implement support for various quirks and > side-effects of running in a VM. Quadro drivers do. You change the > PCI ID of the card by modifying the straps. That makes the card get > detected as a Quadro rather than a GeForce, and the Quadro driver > deals with the quirkyness and side-effects of running in a VM (e.g. > the fact that the physical BARs differ from the virtual BARs). > > The hardware between the GeForce and the Quadro is by and large > the same. The reason for the modification is to convince the Quadro > driver the card really is a Quadro and that you paid an extra pile > of cash for the privilege of running it in VGA passthrough. > > Is it some feature of the new firmware that is being flashed to the > card? > > No, it's a hack to facilitate the use a driver that can handle > running > in a VM. > > And do Geforce cards just absolutely not work at all prior to > being converted to Quadros? > > GeForce cards absolutely do not work with VGA passthrough without > modifications; at least not without an additional, unsupported patch > set which doesn't work for recent cards (4xx cards work, not sure > about the more recent ones), recent drivers (more recent than > 275.xx), > and recent OS-es (more recent than XP). > > And unless your time really is worthless, getting a GeForce 4xx > series > card and modifying it once with no other side effects is a lot less > effort than maintaining your own build of Xen packages with the > extra > patches, even if they do work for your specific use-case. > > > > Thanks that made it very clear, and I totally agree on the time > point. > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xen.org [11] > http://lists.xen.org/xen-users [12] > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] mailto:davidtecher@yahoo.fr > [2] > > http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-soft-moded-to-quadro-6000 > [3] > > http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-successfully-hard-moded-to-grid-k2 > [4] > > http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534 > [5] mailto:halcyon1981@gmail.com > [6] mailto:gordan@bobich.net > [7] mailto:xen-users@lists.xen.org > [8] mailto:xen-users@lists.xen.org > [9] mailto:gordan@bobich.net > [10] mailto:halcyon1981@gmail.com > [11] mailto:Xen-users@lists.xen.org > [12] http://lists.xen.org/xen-users_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
Thanks Gordan- I took a look, none of the 2000s seem to have native HDMI out. This is actually an important point to me, when you flash from GeForce -> Quadro (or are using a native Quadro like the 2k), is there also a functioning pass through HDMI audio device? And in the case of the Quadro 2000, would I be able to get video and audio out of the displayport and convert it to HDMI? On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:54 AM, Gordan Bobic <gordan@bobich.net> wrote:> If you are after a low end card, you might as well just > buy a genuine Quadro 2000. It''s single-slot, powered from > the slot (no auxiliary power required), should be ample > for a HTPC, and will "just work". And they are cheap > enough on ebay that it''s not worth trying to cut a > corner. > > > > > On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 17:49:35 -0700, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> David or Gordon have you tried this on lower end cards like a GT >> 640? (Maybe there isn''t a Quadro even close to flash it to). These >> cards are major overkill for a non-gaming HTPC. >> >> Thanks! >> David >> >> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 3:22 PM, David TECHER wrote: >> >> >> Gordan is right. >> >> In the past patches maintenance for NVIDIA was a real pain. That''s the >> reason why I stopped to maintain those patches in February, 2013. >> >> 1) Soft-moding a GTX 480 to a Quadro 6000 aims at unlocking the >> expected feature on the card >> >> >> http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/**index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-** >> 430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-**soft-moded-to-quadro-6000<http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-soft-moded-to-quadro-6000> >> [2] >> >> >> I tested on two GTX 480 cards and it works very well. Just a bios to >> edit/update. Check the checksum and updates straps bits >> >> 2) Hard-moding a GTX 680 to a 1/2 GRID K2 works very well too. I >> tested it on a Gigabyte GV-N680OC-2GD...it works like a charm >> >> 3) Hard-moding a GTX 670 to a 1/2 GRID K2 works very well too. I >> tested it on the MSI N670GTX-PM2D2GD5/OC...it works like a charm (just >> a few resistors to remove) >> >> >> http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/**index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-** >> 430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-**msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-** >> successfully-hard-moded-to-**grid-k2<http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-successfully-hard-moded-to-grid-k2> >> [3] >> >> >> This card has a similar PCB than Asus card provided/tested on the >> eevblog forum >> >> >> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/**chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-** >> into-their-professional-**counterparts/msg217534/#**msg217534<http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534> >> [4] >> >> ------------------------- >> DE : David Erickson >> À : Gordan Bobic >> CC : "xen-users@lists.xen.org [7]" >> ENVOYÉ LE : Mardi 8 octobre 2013 20h56 >> OBJET : Re: [Xen-users] Primary VGA Passthrough Status >> >> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Gordan Bobic wrote: >> On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 09:20:51 -0700, David Erickson wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Gordan Bobic wrote: >> On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 00:04:33 -0700, David Erickson wrote: >> >> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Gordan Bobic wrote: >> >> On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote: >> Hi All- >> Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the >> primary >> VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there >> (DXVA >> etc), >> >> Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? IME this >> doesn''t gain you anything other than being able to see the BIOS >> splash >> screen and boot animation on the external monitor (which in itself >> isn''t worth the extra effort). >> >> Primarily it is for htpc functionality like Blu-ray playback >> software >> and Digital Cablecard based playback using devices like a HDHR >> Prime. I believe the code that tests for playready (or >> equivalent) >> compatibility always looks at the primary video card and finds it >> totally missing any of these features and refuses to play back >> properly. I need to verify that having a passed through card as >> the >> primary actually solves these issues, but I think it is a >> reasonable >> hunch (unless anyone else has already tried this and proved it >> wrong). >> >> I never used it so cannot comment on it. David Techer maintains a >> patch set for Nvidia cards that include primary passthrough >> support. >> The one in particular you will need is the one that gives the VBIOS >> loading supprot in domU. Between that and a GTX480 modified to a >> Quadro 6000 (VBIOS editing required) you _might_ just be able >> to get it to work. I never tried primary passthrough since >> secondary >> passthrough has always worked for all of my requirements. >> >> without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when >> resetting the guest? >> >> It works fine with Nvidia Quadro cards (real or modified >> GeForce), >> provided your hardware works properly (e.g. no dodgy PCI bridges >> (such >> as Nvidia NF200) bypassing the IOMMU). The latter is, it turns out, >> quite rare - an awful lot of hardware seems to have IOMMU support >> broken to some extent. >> >> Is there something special in the bios/firmware that is enabled >> when >> converting these to Quadros? >> >> You have to modify the strap bits. This can be done with a BIOS >> edit >> on cards up to GTX480, or with some soldering on a GTX680 (you will >> need good eyes, steady hands, high quality soldering paste and some >> pro grade soldering kit (hot air or oven - you might be able to >> get away with a really tiny soldering tip, but bear in mind that >> you will be looking at soldering both ends of a resistor that is >> 1mm >> long, without shorting it out). If you want the easy option, go >> for a GTX480 and BIOS mod it (or a GTX470 -> Quadro 5000 or a >> GTS450 (make sure you get a 1GB GDDR5 one) -> Quadro 2000 I have >> used all of the above extensively without any issues). >> >> Thanks Gordon, I probably wasn''t clear in my question, but when you >> convert it from a standard Geforce => Quadro, what is changing at the >> card level to make it more compatible with PCI Passthrough and Xen? >> >> GeForce drivers don''t implement support for various quirks and >> side-effects of running in a VM. Quadro drivers do. You change the >> PCI ID of the card by modifying the straps. That makes the card get >> detected as a Quadro rather than a GeForce, and the Quadro driver >> deals with the quirkyness and side-effects of running in a VM (e.g. >> the fact that the physical BARs differ from the virtual BARs). >> >> The hardware between the GeForce and the Quadro is by and large >> the same. The reason for the modification is to convince the Quadro >> driver the card really is a Quadro and that you paid an extra pile >> of cash for the privilege of running it in VGA passthrough. >> >> Is it some feature of the new firmware that is being flashed to the >> card? >> >> No, it''s a hack to facilitate the use a driver that can handle >> running >> in a VM. >> >> And do Geforce cards just absolutely not work at all prior to >> being converted to Quadros? >> >> GeForce cards absolutely do not work with VGA passthrough without >> modifications; at least not without an additional, unsupported patch >> set which doesn''t work for recent cards (4xx cards work, not sure >> about the more recent ones), recent drivers (more recent than >> 275.xx), >> and recent OS-es (more recent than XP). >> >> And unless your time really is worthless, getting a GeForce 4xx >> series >> card and modifying it once with no other side effects is a lot less >> effort than maintaining your own build of Xen packages with the extra >> patches, even if they do work for your specific use-case. >> >> >> >> Thanks that made it very clear, and I totally agree on the time point. >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> Xen-users mailing list >> Xen-users@lists.xen.org [11] >> http://lists.xen.org/xen-users [12] >> >> >> >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] mailto:davidtecher@yahoo.fr >> [2] >> >> http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/**index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-** >> 430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-**soft-moded-to-quadro-6000<http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-soft-moded-to-quadro-6000> >> [3] >> >> http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/**index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-** >> 430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-**msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-** >> successfully-hard-moded-to-**grid-k2<http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-successfully-hard-moded-to-grid-k2> >> [4] >> >> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/**chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-** >> into-their-professional-**counterparts/msg217534/#**msg217534<http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534> >> [5] mailto:halcyon1981@gmail.com >> [6] mailto:gordan@bobich.net >> [7] mailto:xen-users@lists.xen.org >> [8] mailto:xen-users@lists.xen.org >> [9] mailto:gordan@bobich.net >> [10] mailto:halcyon1981@gmail.com >> [11] mailto:Xen-users@lists.xen.org >> [12] http://lists.xen.org/xen-users >> > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
Just found it claims to be supported on the spec list of the 2000 cards, but I am curious if everything still works normally on the converted Quadros. Thanks, David On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 9:36 AM, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com>wrote:> Thanks Gordan- > I took a look, none of the 2000s seem to have native HDMI out. This is > actually an important point to me, when you flash from GeForce -> Quadro > (or are using a native Quadro like the 2k), is there also a functioning > pass through HDMI audio device? And in the case of the Quadro 2000, would > I be able to get video and audio out of the displayport and convert it to > HDMI? > > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:54 AM, Gordan Bobic <gordan@bobich.net> wrote: > >> If you are after a low end card, you might as well just >> buy a genuine Quadro 2000. It''s single-slot, powered from >> the slot (no auxiliary power required), should be ample >> for a HTPC, and will "just work". And they are cheap >> enough on ebay that it''s not worth trying to cut a >> corner. >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 17:49:35 -0700, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> David or Gordon have you tried this on lower end cards like a GT >>> 640? (Maybe there isn''t a Quadro even close to flash it to). These >>> cards are major overkill for a non-gaming HTPC. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> David >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 3:22 PM, David TECHER wrote: >>> >>> >>> Gordan is right. >>> >>> In the past patches maintenance for NVIDIA was a real pain. That''s the >>> reason why I stopped to maintain those patches in February, 2013. >>> >>> 1) Soft-moding a GTX 480 to a Quadro 6000 aims at unlocking the >>> expected feature on the card >>> >>> >>> http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/**index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-** >>> 430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-**soft-moded-to-quadro-6000<http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-soft-moded-to-quadro-6000> >>> [2] >>> >>> >>> I tested on two GTX 480 cards and it works very well. Just a bios to >>> edit/update. Check the checksum and updates straps bits >>> >>> 2) Hard-moding a GTX 680 to a 1/2 GRID K2 works very well too. I >>> tested it on a Gigabyte GV-N680OC-2GD...it works like a charm >>> >>> 3) Hard-moding a GTX 670 to a 1/2 GRID K2 works very well too. I >>> tested it on the MSI N670GTX-PM2D2GD5/OC...it works like a charm (just >>> a few resistors to remove) >>> >>> >>> http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/**index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-** >>> 430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-**msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-** >>> successfully-hard-moded-to-**grid-k2<http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-successfully-hard-moded-to-grid-k2> >>> [3] >>> >>> >>> This card has a similar PCB than Asus card provided/tested on the >>> eevblog forum >>> >>> >>> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/**chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-** >>> into-their-professional-**counterparts/msg217534/#**msg217534<http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534> >>> [4] >>> >>> ------------------------- >>> DE : David Erickson >>> À : Gordan Bobic >>> CC : "xen-users@lists.xen.org [7]" >>> ENVOYÉ LE : Mardi 8 octobre 2013 20h56 >>> OBJET : Re: [Xen-users] Primary VGA Passthrough Status >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Gordan Bobic wrote: >>> On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 09:20:51 -0700, David Erickson wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Gordan Bobic wrote: >>> On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 00:04:33 -0700, David Erickson wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Gordan Bobic wrote: >>> >>> On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote: >>> Hi All- >>> Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU as the >>> primary >>> VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there >>> (DXVA >>> etc), >>> >>> Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? IME this >>> doesn''t gain you anything other than being able to see the BIOS >>> splash >>> screen and boot animation on the external monitor (which in itself >>> isn''t worth the extra effort). >>> >>> Primarily it is for htpc functionality like Blu-ray playback >>> software >>> and Digital Cablecard based playback using devices like a HDHR >>> Prime. I believe the code that tests for playready (or >>> equivalent) >>> compatibility always looks at the primary video card and finds it >>> totally missing any of these features and refuses to play back >>> properly. I need to verify that having a passed through card as >>> the >>> primary actually solves these issues, but I think it is a >>> reasonable >>> hunch (unless anyone else has already tried this and proved it >>> wrong). >>> >>> I never used it so cannot comment on it. David Techer maintains a >>> patch set for Nvidia cards that include primary passthrough >>> support. >>> The one in particular you will need is the one that gives the VBIOS >>> loading supprot in domU. Between that and a GTX480 modified to a >>> Quadro 6000 (VBIOS editing required) you _might_ just be able >>> to get it to work. I never tried primary passthrough since >>> secondary >>> passthrough has always worked for all of my requirements. >>> >>> without crashing the guest or the host during operation or when >>> resetting the guest? >>> >>> It works fine with Nvidia Quadro cards (real or modified >>> GeForce), >>> provided your hardware works properly (e.g. no dodgy PCI bridges >>> (such >>> as Nvidia NF200) bypassing the IOMMU). The latter is, it turns out, >>> quite rare - an awful lot of hardware seems to have IOMMU support >>> broken to some extent. >>> >>> Is there something special in the bios/firmware that is enabled >>> when >>> converting these to Quadros? >>> >>> You have to modify the strap bits. This can be done with a BIOS >>> edit >>> on cards up to GTX480, or with some soldering on a GTX680 (you will >>> need good eyes, steady hands, high quality soldering paste and some >>> pro grade soldering kit (hot air or oven - you might be able to >>> get away with a really tiny soldering tip, but bear in mind that >>> you will be looking at soldering both ends of a resistor that is >>> 1mm >>> long, without shorting it out). If you want the easy option, go >>> for a GTX480 and BIOS mod it (or a GTX470 -> Quadro 5000 or a >>> GTS450 (make sure you get a 1GB GDDR5 one) -> Quadro 2000 I have >>> used all of the above extensively without any issues). >>> >>> Thanks Gordon, I probably wasn''t clear in my question, but when you >>> convert it from a standard Geforce => Quadro, what is changing at the >>> card level to make it more compatible with PCI Passthrough and Xen? >>> >>> GeForce drivers don''t implement support for various quirks and >>> side-effects of running in a VM. Quadro drivers do. You change the >>> PCI ID of the card by modifying the straps. That makes the card get >>> detected as a Quadro rather than a GeForce, and the Quadro driver >>> deals with the quirkyness and side-effects of running in a VM (e.g. >>> the fact that the physical BARs differ from the virtual BARs). >>> >>> The hardware between the GeForce and the Quadro is by and large >>> the same. The reason for the modification is to convince the Quadro >>> driver the card really is a Quadro and that you paid an extra pile >>> of cash for the privilege of running it in VGA passthrough. >>> >>> Is it some feature of the new firmware that is being flashed to the >>> card? >>> >>> No, it''s a hack to facilitate the use a driver that can handle >>> running >>> in a VM. >>> >>> And do Geforce cards just absolutely not work at all prior to >>> being converted to Quadros? >>> >>> GeForce cards absolutely do not work with VGA passthrough without >>> modifications; at least not without an additional, unsupported patch >>> set which doesn''t work for recent cards (4xx cards work, not sure >>> about the more recent ones), recent drivers (more recent than >>> 275.xx), >>> and recent OS-es (more recent than XP). >>> >>> And unless your time really is worthless, getting a GeForce 4xx >>> series >>> card and modifying it once with no other side effects is a lot less >>> effort than maintaining your own build of Xen packages with the extra >>> patches, even if they do work for your specific use-case. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks that made it very clear, and I totally agree on the time point. >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> Xen-users mailing list >>> Xen-users@lists.xen.org [11] >>> http://lists.xen.org/xen-users [12] >>> >>> >>> >>> Links: >>> ------ >>> [1] mailto:davidtecher@yahoo.fr >>> [2] >>> >>> http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/**index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-** >>> 430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-**soft-moded-to-quadro-6000<http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-soft-moded-to-quadro-6000> >>> [3] >>> >>> http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/**index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-** >>> 430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-**msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-** >>> successfully-hard-moded-to-**grid-k2<http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-successfully-hard-moded-to-grid-k2> >>> [4] >>> >>> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/**chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-** >>> into-their-professional-**counterparts/msg217534/#**msg217534<http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534> >>> [5] mailto:halcyon1981@gmail.com >>> [6] mailto:gordan@bobich.net >>> [7] mailto:xen-users@lists.xen.org >>> [8] mailto:xen-users@lists.xen.org >>> [9] mailto:gordan@bobich.net >>> [10] mailto:halcyon1981@gmail.com >>> [11] mailto:Xen-users@lists.xen.org >>> [12] http://lists.xen.org/xen-users >>> >> >> >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xen.org http://lists.xen.org/xen-users
I can confirm that a HDMI HD audio device does show up on the bus both before and after the modification, but I never tried using it and none of my Nvidia cards have HDMI ports so I am not sure how it works. Gordan On 10/09/2013 06:20 PM, David Erickson wrote:> Just found it claims to be supported on the spec list of the 2000 cards, > but I am curious if everything still works normally on the converted > Quadros. > > Thanks, > David > > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 9:36 AM, David Erickson <halcyon1981@gmail.com > <mailto:halcyon1981@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Thanks Gordan- > I took a look, none of the 2000s seem to have native HDMI out. This > is actually an important point to me, when you flash from GeForce -> > Quadro (or are using a native Quadro like the 2k), is there also a > functioning pass through HDMI audio device? And in the case of the > Quadro 2000, would I be able to get video and audio out of the > displayport and convert it to HDMI? > > > On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:54 AM, Gordan Bobic <gordan@bobich.net > <mailto:gordan@bobich.net>> wrote: > > If you are after a low end card, you might as well just > buy a genuine Quadro 2000. It''s single-slot, powered from > the slot (no auxiliary power required), should be ample > for a HTPC, and will "just work". And they are cheap > enough on ebay that it''s not worth trying to cut a > corner. > > > > > On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 17:49:35 -0700, David Erickson > <halcyon1981@gmail.com <mailto:halcyon1981@gmail.com>> wrote: > > David or Gordon have you tried this on lower end cards like a GT > 640? (Maybe there isn''t a Quadro even close to flash it > to). These > cards are major overkill for a non-gaming HTPC. > > Thanks! > David > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 3:22 PM, David TECHER wrote: > > > Gordan is right. > > In the past patches maintenance for NVIDIA was a real pain. > That''s the > reason why I stopped to maintain those patches in February, > 2013. > > 1) Soft-moding a GTX 480 to a Quadro 6000 aims at unlocking the > expected feature on the card > > > http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/__index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-__430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-__soft-moded-to-quadro-6000 > <http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-soft-moded-to-quadro-6000> > [2] > > > I tested on two GTX 480 cards and it works very well. Just a > bios to > edit/update. Check the checksum and updates straps bits > > 2) Hard-moding a GTX 680 to a 1/2 GRID K2 works very well too. I > tested it on a Gigabyte GV-N680OC-2GD...it works like a charm > > 3) Hard-moding a GTX 670 to a 1/2 GRID K2 works very well too. I > tested it on the MSI N670GTX-PM2D2GD5/OC...it works like a > charm (just > a few resistors to remove) > > > http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/__index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-__430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-__msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-__successfully-hard-moded-to-__grid-k2 > <http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-successfully-hard-moded-to-grid-k2> > [3] > > > This card has a similar PCB than Asus card provided/tested > on the > eevblog forum > > > http://www.eevblog.com/forum/__chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-__into-their-professional-__counterparts/msg217534/#__msg217534 > <http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534> > [4] > > ------------------------- > DE : David Erickson > À : Gordan Bobic > CC : "xen-users@lists.xen.org > <mailto:xen-users@lists.xen.org> [7]" > ENVOYÉ LE : Mardi 8 octobre 2013 20h56 > OBJET : Re: [Xen-users] Primary VGA Passthrough Status > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Gordan Bobic wrote: > On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 09:20:51 -0700, David Erickson wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Gordan Bobic wrote: > On Tue, 8 Oct 2013 00:04:33 -0700, David Erickson wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Gordan Bobic wrote: > > On 10/07/2013 09:33 PM, David Erickson wrote: > Hi All- > Is it possible yet to pass through a ATI or Nvidia GPU > as the > primary > VGA card to a Win 7/8 VM, and have it fully functional there > (DXVA > etc), > > Why exactly do you need the card to be primary in domU? > IME this > doesn''t gain you anything other than being able to see > the BIOS > splash > screen and boot animation on the external monitor (which > in itself > isn''t worth the extra effort). > > Primarily it is for htpc functionality like Blu-ray playback > software > and Digital Cablecard based playback using devices like a > HDHR > Prime. I believe the code that tests for playready (or > equivalent) > compatibility always looks at the primary video card and > finds it > totally missing any of these features and refuses to play > back > properly. I need to verify that having a passed through > card as > the > primary actually solves these issues, but I think it is a > reasonable > hunch (unless anyone else has already tried this and > proved it > wrong). > > I never used it so cannot comment on it. David Techer > maintains a > patch set for Nvidia cards that include primary passthrough > support. > The one in particular you will need is the one that gives > the VBIOS > loading supprot in domU. Between that and a GTX480 > modified to a > Quadro 6000 (VBIOS editing required) you _might_ just be able > to get it to work. I never tried primary passthrough since > secondary > passthrough has always worked for all of my requirements. > > without crashing the guest or the host during > operation or when > resetting the guest? > > It works fine with Nvidia Quadro cards (real or modified > GeForce), > provided your hardware works properly (e.g. no dodgy PCI > bridges > (such > as Nvidia NF200) bypassing the IOMMU). The latter is, it > turns out, > quite rare - an awful lot of hardware seems to have IOMMU > support > broken to some extent. > > Is there something special in the bios/firmware that is > enabled > when > converting these to Quadros? > > You have to modify the strap bits. This can be done with > a BIOS > edit > on cards up to GTX480, or with some soldering on a GTX680 > (you will > need good eyes, steady hands, high quality soldering > paste and some > pro grade soldering kit (hot air or oven - you might be > able to > get away with a really tiny soldering tip, but bear in > mind that > you will be looking at soldering both ends of a resistor > that is > 1mm > long, without shorting it out). If you want the easy > option, go > for a GTX480 and BIOS mod it (or a GTX470 -> Quadro 5000 or a > GTS450 (make sure you get a 1GB GDDR5 one) -> Quadro 2000 > I have > used all of the above extensively without any issues). > > Thanks Gordon, I probably wasn''t clear in my question, but > when you > convert it from a standard Geforce => Quadro, what is > changing at the > card level to make it more compatible with PCI Passthrough > and Xen? > > GeForce drivers don''t implement support for various quirks and > side-effects of running in a VM. Quadro drivers do. You > change the > PCI ID of the card by modifying the straps. That makes the > card get > detected as a Quadro rather than a GeForce, and the Quadro > driver > deals with the quirkyness and side-effects of running in a > VM (e.g. > the fact that the physical BARs differ from the virtual BARs). > > The hardware between the GeForce and the Quadro is by and > large > the same. The reason for the modification is to convince > the Quadro > driver the card really is a Quadro and that you paid an > extra pile > of cash for the privilege of running it in VGA passthrough. > > Is it some feature of the new firmware that is being > flashed to the > card? > > No, it''s a hack to facilitate the use a driver that can handle > running > in a VM. > > And do Geforce cards just absolutely not work at all prior to > being converted to Quadros? > > GeForce cards absolutely do not work with VGA passthrough > without > modifications; at least not without an additional, > unsupported patch > set which doesn''t work for recent cards (4xx cards work, > not sure > about the more recent ones), recent drivers (more recent than > 275.xx), > and recent OS-es (more recent than XP). > > And unless your time really is worthless, getting a > GeForce 4xx > series > card and modifying it once with no other side effects is a > lot less > effort than maintaining your own build of Xen packages > with the extra > patches, even if they do work for your specific use-case. > > > > Thanks that made it very clear, and I totally agree on the > time point. > > _________________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xen.org <mailto:Xen-users@lists.xen.org> [11] > http://lists.xen.org/xen-users [12] > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] mailto:davidtecher@yahoo.fr <mailto:davidtecher@yahoo.fr> > [2] > > http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/__index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-__430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-__soft-moded-to-quadro-6000 > <http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/09/18/969-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-480-soft-moded-to-quadro-6000> > [3] > > http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/__index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-__430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-__msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-__successfully-hard-moded-to-__grid-k2 > <http://www.davidgis.fr/blog/index.php?2013/10/04/971-xen-430-vga-passthrough-gtx-670-msi-n670gtx-pm2d2gd5-successfully-hard-moded-to-grid-k2> > [4] > > http://www.eevblog.com/forum/__chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-__into-their-professional-__counterparts/msg217534/#__msg217534 > <http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hacking-nvidia-cards-into-their-professional-counterparts/msg217534/#msg217534> > [5] mailto:halcyon1981@gmail.com <mailto:halcyon1981@gmail.com> > [6] mailto:gordan@bobich.net <mailto:gordan@bobich.net> > [7] mailto:xen-users@lists.xen.org > <mailto:xen-users@lists.xen.org> > [8] mailto:xen-users@lists.xen.org > <mailto:xen-users@lists.xen.org> > [9] mailto:gordan@bobich.net <mailto:gordan@bobich.net> > [10] mailto:halcyon1981@gmail.com <mailto:halcyon1981@gmail.com> > [11] mailto:Xen-users@lists.xen.org > <mailto:Xen-users@lists.xen.org> > [12] http://lists.xen.org/xen-users > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xen.org > http://lists.xen.org/xen-users >
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