Hello, I was not able to find any information on this in the FAQ so I put the question here: Is there any known problem running a vmware inside Xen? I need to set up a new Linux server where i want to seperate some services by putting them in different domains. Now I got the idea to save an extra windows server (which is under very low load) by also putting a vmware with windows inside a Xen domain. Does anyone know whether this will work (it should)? Can I also run the vmware inside domain 0 or should i put it in a new domain? Which aproach is better? Thanks for your help, Claus _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> I was not able to find any information on this in the FAQ so I put the > question here: Is there any known problem running a vmware inside Xen?It''s not possible, at least for now: guest systems (things which run on top of Xen) need to be modified. The only ways this could work are: 1. VMware release a special version of their software which can run on Xen; not that likely I''d guess, though obviously up to them. 2. You use the new hardware features announced by Intel ("VT-x") or AMD ("Pacifica") to fully virtualize VMware. This will probably work just fine, but you''ll need to wait until you can get your hands on the new chips... In the meantime, you might try using ''wine'' under xenlinux, or else trying ''qemu''. cheers, S. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Am Sonntag 29 Mai 2005 14:31 schrieb Steven Hand:> > I was not able to find any information on this in the FAQ so I put the > > question here: Is there any known problem running a vmware inside Xen? > > It''s not possible, at least for now: guest systems (things which run > on top of Xen) need to be modified.Ok, I thought it might run if I run a modified linux. Inside this linux i run the vmware? But the hardware on which a vmware runs needs to be x86 which it is not for a Xen domain, right? How about domain 0 then? Does it run there? Or does domain0 alo run on the Xen architecture?> The only ways this could work are: > > 1. VMware release a special version of their software which can > run on Xen; not that likely I''d guess, though obviously up to > them.Ack, very unlikely, I think.> 2. You use the new hardware features announced by Intel ("VT-x") or > AMD ("Pacifica") to fully virtualize VMware. This will probably > work just fine, but you''ll need to wait until you can get your > hands on the new chips...Ok, I need it soon, so this won''t work.> In the meantime, you might try using ''wine'' under xenlinux, or else > trying ''qemu''.Wine will probably not work nicly (easily) for an IIS and .net stuff? (_They_ need that, not me ;-) ) The qemu accelerator will not run in Xen? So this is probably quite slow? So as a conclusion there are these options for me: 1. vmware can run in domain 0 ??? (Does this work?) 2. I install user mode linux with one vmware in the host system. 3. Install a linux with several vmware systems on it. 4. Xen with one domain running qemu (From the quemu website I read that this might not run well (stable) with some Windows versions?) The performance will be quite low, I guess. 5. Same as 4 but use bochs instead of qemu. Which is better? Is there any other solution (I would like one with Xen in it, as i found the Demo CD rather cool)? The question comes down to: What is the best (easiest, most stable, best performing) way to have virtual linux and windows servers on one x86 machine. Thanks for your help, Yours Claus _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Sun, 29 May 2005 15:20:14 +0200 "Claus R. F. Overbeck" <xen@clausrfoverbeck.de> wrote:> Am Sonntag 29 Mai 2005 14:31 schrieb Steven Hand: > > > I was not able to find any information on this in the FAQ so I put the > > > question here: Is there any known problem running a vmware inside Xen? > > > > It''s not possible, at least for now: guest systems (things which run > > on top of Xen) need to be modified. > > Ok, I thought it might run if I run a modified linux. Inside this linux i run > the vmware? But the hardware on which a vmware runs needs to be x86 which it > is not for a Xen domain, right? > How about domain 0 then? Does it run there? Or does domain0 alo run on the Xen > > architecture? > > > The only ways this could work are: > > > > 1. VMware release a special version of their software which can > > run on Xen; not that likely I''d guess, though obviously up to > > them. > > Ack, very unlikely, I think. > > > 2. You use the new hardware features announced by Intel ("VT-x") or > > AMD ("Pacifica") to fully virtualize VMware. This will probably > > work just fine, but you''ll need to wait until you can get your > > hands on the new chips... > > Ok, I need it soon, so this won''t work. > > > In the meantime, you might try using ''wine'' under xenlinux, or else > > trying ''qemu''. > > Wine will probably not work nicly (easily) for an IIS and .net stuff? > (_They_ need that, not me ;-) ) > > The qemu accelerator will not run in Xen? So this is probably quite slow? > > So as a conclusion there are these options for me: > 1. vmware can run in domain 0 ??? (Does this work?) > 2. I install user mode linux with one vmware in the host system. > 3. Install a linux with several vmware systems on it. > 4. Xen with one domain running qemu (From the quemu website I read that this > might not run well (stable) with some Windows versions?) The performance will > be quite low, I guess. > 5. Same as 4 but use bochs instead of qemu. Which is better? > > Is there any other solution (I would like one with Xen in it, as i found the > Demo CD rather cool)?Win4LinPro runs in userspace now, it can run under Xen: http://www.win4lin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=125 Tim _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Am Sonntag 29 Mai 2005 18:14 schrieb Tim Freeman:> On Sun, 29 May 2005 15:20:14 +0200 > Win4LinPro runs in userspace now, it can run under Xen: > > http://www.win4lin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid>125Sounds interesting (thanks for the link). But it is just a special version of qemu? So it will have the same performance issues, right? Yours Claus _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:37:40 +0200 "Claus R. F. Overbeck" <xen@clausrfoverbeck.de> wrote:> Am Sonntag 29 Mai 2005 18:14 schrieb Tim Freeman: > > On Sun, 29 May 2005 15:20:14 +0200 > > Win4LinPro runs in userspace now, it can run under Xen: > > > > http://www.win4lin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid> >125 > > Sounds interesting (thanks for the link). But it is just a special version of > qemu? So it will have the same performance issues, right? >Yeah, it will not be native speed. Depending on what''s in the Windows server, it should do ok if it''s unloaded (like you say).> 1. vmware can run in domain 0 ??? (Does this work?)That does not work, btw. If you''re concerned with performance, I hate to say it :-), but be sure to evalute your #3 vs. your #4 and #3 vs. #4/Win4Lin. It sounds like you are just setting up one computer, in which case, I wouldn''t go to all this trouble if you are looking for more performance, I''d just buy another computer (this method does not scale well ;-). Tim _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 5/29/05, Steven Hand <Steven.Hand@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:> > > I was not able to find any information on this in the FAQ so I put the > > question here: Is there any known problem running a vmware inside Xen? > > It''s not possible, at least for now: guest systems (things which run > on top of Xen) need to be modified. > > The only ways this could work are: > > 1. VMware release a special version of their software which can > run on Xen; not that likely I''d guess, though obviously up to > them.I don''t see why VMware (a program that runs under linux) wouldn''t be able to run under a linux domain in Xen. I haven''t used VMware for several years, but as far as I remember it is completely in userspace. Is there a specific reason why it would not work? Has anyone tested this? -- boundary n. :: In political geography, an imaginary line between two nations, separating the imaginary rights of one from the imaginary rights of the other. -Ambrose Bierce, The Devil''s Dictionary _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
PacketCollision wrote:> I don''t see why VMware (a program that runs under linux) wouldn''t be > able to run under a linux domain in Xen. I haven''t used VMware for > several years, but as far as I remember it is completely in userspace. > Is there a specific reason why it would not work? Has anyone tested > this?VMWare doesn''t run completely in userspace; it needs a kernel module to work. I suppose this is necessary for VMWare to run guest code destined to be in ring 0 (i.e. OS code). As Xen OSen run in ring 1 this won''t work. Thomas _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
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I am sorry, something in Kmail is very broken... Here my original message: I am not an expert on this but I think the reason is that most of the machine code that runs inside the vmware ist passed straight to the cpu instead of simulating a x86 cpu (this is good for speed). Therefore vmware expects to run on a x86 cpu which Xen does not provide. This brings me to the (probably stupid) question: Do I need to recompile every package that I want to run inside Xen because the architecture is different? (I think the answer is "no" but why?) Yours Claus _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> I am not an expert on this but I think the reason is that > most of the machine > code that runs inside the vmware ist passed straight to the > cpu instead of > simulating a x86 cpu (this is good for speed). Therefore > vmware expects to > run on a x86 cpu which Xen does not provide.Hi Claus. Xen _does_ provide an x86 CPU, but direct access to the hardware and memory management is not allowed - it must go through the Xen hypervisor. When running machine code in user space you are running directly on the CPU just as if you were running VMware. Kernel code runs more efficiently on Xen since the kernel knows that it is virtualized and the processor thus does not have to trap hardware access as when running VMware.> This brings me to the (probably stupid) question: Do I need > to recompile every > package that I want to run inside Xen because the > architecture is different? > (I think the answer is "no" but why?)No - user space applications won''t (or at least shouldn''t) know the difference. As long as you are in user space you see a normal CPU on a seemingly normal OS kernel. Cheers -- Jan Holst Jensen, Novo Nordisk A/S, Denmark _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Of course you dont need to recompile every package you gonna use. The "only" difference at xenU is: these domains cant access hardware directly, and at xen0 you can. If you are talking about other "kind" of package, like kernel modules, you would need to make them fully supported to xen cause they need hardware access. So basically a package that runs under userspace doesnt need changes to run under xen. On Mon, 2005-05-30 at 13:49 +0200, Claus R. F. Overbeck wrote:> I am sorry, something in Kmail is very broken... > Here my original message: > > I am not an expert on this but I think the reason is that most of the machine > code that runs inside the vmware ist passed straight to the cpu instead of > simulating a x86 cpu (this is good for speed). Therefore vmware expects to > run on a x86 cpu which Xen does not provide. > > This brings me to the (probably stupid) question: Do I need to recompile every > package that I want to run inside Xen because the architecture is different? > (I think the answer is "no" but why?) > > Yours Claus > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Am Montag 30 Mai 2005 23:49 schrieb Guilherme H. Polo G.:> Of course you dont need to recompile every package you gonna use. The > "only" difference at xenU is: these domains cant access hardware > directly, and at xen0 you can.This means I can run vmware in xen0 ? Yours Claus _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>Am Montag 30 Mai 2005 23:49 schrieb Guilherme H. Polo G.: >> Of course you dont need to recompile every package you gonna use. The >> "only" difference at xenU is: these domains cant access hardware >> directly, and at xen0 you can. >This means I can run vmware in xen0 ?No. vmware (workstation) includes a linux kernel module - this runs inside the linux kernel in "ring 0" and uses this fact to provide its virtualization functionality. With Xen, only Xen itself runs in ring 0 - even dom0 runs in ring 1, and so cannot provide this functionality. cheers, S. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users