Xen users - Apr 2005 - Re: Under the table experiment

Dude, take it to the list, I take no pleasure in discussing marketing
with you privately.

What are your actual contributions to the Xen community?  save your
big words until you get the big iron.  No one is going to do this
*FOR* you privately.  Gain some knowledge, gain some patience and gain
some respect in the process.  I hate to sound rude but... google for
RTFM and find out on your own.

huge pile of regards,
-soffi-


On Apr 5, 2005 6:12 PM, Ted Hilts <thilts@help-for-you.com>
wrote:
> Soffi
> 
> I would like to try an experiment.  There seems to be a fair number of
> people having problems of one sort or another putting together a
> properly working  Dom 0.  I am guessing but you probably have enough
> spare storage to host 1 or 2 Dom 0 distributions.  For example, Antoine
> (web master of Xen French --
> 
> XENfr.org
> 
> ) quickly put together a Debian Sarge base on Xen.
> 
> I would like Antoine, if he would be kind enough to do so, and that is
> to wrap up both the source (Debian + Xen that he used) along with the
> binary he created into a bz2 tarball so that it would unwrap where ever
> one wanted to put their Dom0.  Maybe he could also include in this
> tarball his GRUB boot file -- if helpful for install on someone
else''s
> system.  If Antoine wishes to cooperate, put his file in a directory on
> your FTP server which we will call "antoine_dom0_debian" and the
tarball
> we will call "antoine_dom0_debian.tar.bz2".  Note the
compression. When
> you get it perhaps you and someone else could try the
> "antoine_dom0_debian distribution.  If it proves successful as a dom0
> distribution then you make it available from your location (and mirror)
> until I get my facilities up an running.  You will probably encounter a
> lot of heavy traffic on your server as I have a feeling this will be
> very popular for many reasons. I would like to keep this "under the
> table" until we prove by doing, that it will be an easy task for
anyone
> to intall the "antoine_dom0_ debian" distribution and generate
DomU
> instances.  I know you already have a number of DomU builds in tarball
> form so anyone wanting to try Antoines distribution can get at least
> some DomU packages from you.
> 
> Hope you find this experiment worth while but I would very much
> appreciate your making a kind of dry run on this. This success would be
> usefull whether we set up a repository/server or the "proposed"
> repository/server were to become a reality.
> 
> Antoine:
> I hope we find you cooperative in this regard.  I think a few dry runs
> are a good idea in order to ensure success of the kind of
> repository/server we have been considering.
> 
> Thanks to the both of you who I have found to be both easy to get along
> with and very cooperative.  I wish I could participate (you guys have
> all the fun) but my satellite facilites are still several weeks down the
> road and all I have right now is 2 slow dial up lines because of my
> remote location.  I would sure like to test it myself  -- perhaps I can
> get a DVD blasted for Antoine''s Distribution from someone in the
big
> city of Edmonton who has a high speed connection.
> 
> Anyway I wish you both luck on this, let me know if you are willing to
> do this so I don''t wait for results that are never fothcoming. And
have
> a nice day or evening.  It''s late morning where I am.
> 
> Thanks -- Ted
> 
>
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Soffi

This is a very unfortunate incident but you have left me NO choice but 
to respond. You should never do this to people.

It''s amazing how you would think an experiment was marketing or some 
kind of exploitation. But it seems you do. Perhaps you did not 
understand what the experiment was about.  I did not want to trouble the 
list with an experiment as it seems you have now done. I have been on 
many lists where many people did things aside of the list. But that''s 
okay, those interested on this list will respond, those not interested 
won''t. They will make up their own mind now you have included them with
your CC.  But there is no need to start flaming away.  "1000 sorrys"
for
upsetting you so badly. If I had known your reaction I would not have 
asked. I don''t want to go through life upsetting anyone unnecessarily 
especially people that flame over nothing.  Apparently I asked the wrong 
person to assist and for that I apologize.  

FYI my expectations for this experiment (which I cannot do here on my 
LAN right now as I had explained and everyone will read for them selves) 
was to determine ahead of time how newbees and others using the 
distribution would react when Dom 0 booted up to different hardware and 
it''s configuration files had to be changed. This concern should have 
been obvious by the use of the word "experiment". This is a common 
situation on the [SLE] list when hardware changes occur (CPU board, chip 
sets, NIC etc.,) and people want to know what to do.  I need to know 
what kind of user concerns surface in order to provide a proper web page 
for each Dom 0 to be handled by the server. It was that straightforward 
and simple.  I have learned to expect the unexpected.  But I admit your 
flaming did get me unexpectedly.  You should maybe do some introspection 
and examine your attitudes and motivations behind your behavior.

It might be interesting for you to know that I have Dom 0 and DomU 
installations working on my LAN and I am not interested in getting 
someone to do my work or thinking for me.  I say what I mean so there is 
no reason to read between the lines and come to the wrong conclusions. 
 I do believe in team work and have spent many many years in Engineering 
and IT. A lot of people think because they are working with others they 
are a team.  But teamwork is far far more than a group of people. 
 Teamwork involves people with different skill sets not people with the 
same skill set.  It is the merger of skill sets and the cooperative and 
supportive environment that defines a real team. But I am also not 
ashamed to ask questions. And there are lots of others on hundreds of  
lists like this one that ask questions other people don''t ask. That is 
one of the beauties of a list. In a way a list should function as a 
team. Yes, I consider myself a newbee when it comes to Xen.  So what? I 
have no interest is presenting myself to others as something I am not. 
 I have enough credentials and achievements in life so I don''t have to 
generate more to impress people. You can run CVS and other source code 
tools from my LAN.  I have customized kernels and all sorts of things. 
As I said, I have running Xen-systems on my LAN.  So I don''t like being
presented before the list as an incompetent techie with brains less than 
a cow that no one should listen to or help. I don''t think anyone wants 
to be thought of that way.  And as life would have it people that burn 
down someone else''s house usually get their own house burned down. What
goes around comes around. But then I can''t stop you from such conduct
--
can I?  And I don''t want to be party to or engage in such conduct.  I 
could have ignored your response, you could have kept it between you and 
me, but instead you have created an unfortunate incident involving the 
entire list that most people will find offensive and newbees will be 
scared off the list for fear of being flamed.  Shame on you Soffi.

Thanks anyway, sticks and stones will break my bones but names can never 
hurt me -- I learned that in grade 2.  I will just go this whole thing 
alone and you are always welcome to download a Dom 0 or a DomU 
distribution or run a test directly from the LAN.  But remember you will 
have to register and operate with an ID so I will know that I have 
helped you -- a person that would rather insult me than be a team player 
with me.  In the future and to protect the list from more of this 
garbage I would appreciate no more correspondence on this subject (if 
there is I won''t respond and will advise the list manager) and I will 
stay away from your email and would respect that you do the same with 
mine.  

I am not leaving the list because you flamed me. This is a very 
unfortunate incident Soffi and you created it. It is the first such 
incident on this list and I apologize to everyone that it has happened. 
 I will try to be more careful when asking for any kind of help and I 
will stay off the list for a while.

Thanks -- Ted



Kristinn Soffanias Runarsson wrote:
>Dude, take it to the list, I take no pleasure in discussing marketing
>with you privately.
>
>What are your actual contributions to the Xen community?  save your
>big words until you get the big iron.  No one is going to do this
>*FOR* you privately.  Gain some knowledge, gain some patience and gain
>some respect in the process.  I hate to sound rude but... google for
>RTFM and find out on your own.
>
>huge pile of regards,
>-soffi-
>
>
>On Apr 5, 2005 6:12 PM, Ted Hilts <thilts@help-for-you.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Soffi
>>
>>I would like to try an experiment.  There seems to be a fair number of
>>people having problems of one sort or another putting together a
>>properly working  Dom 0.  I am guessing but you probably have enough
>>spare storage to host 1 or 2 Dom 0 distributions.  For example, Antoine
>>(web master of Xen French --
>>
>>XENfr.org
>>
>>) quickly put together a Debian Sarge base on Xen.
>>
>>I would like Antoine, if he would be kind enough to do so, and that is
>>to wrap up both the source (Debian + Xen that he used) along with the
>>binary he created into a bz2 tarball so that it would unwrap where ever
>>one wanted to put their Dom0.  Maybe he could also include in this
>>tarball his GRUB boot file -- if helpful for install on someone
else''s
>>system.  If Antoine wishes to cooperate, put his file in a directory on
>>your FTP server which we will call "antoine_dom0_debian" and
the tarball
>>we will call "antoine_dom0_debian.tar.bz2".  Note the
compression. When
>>you get it perhaps you and someone else could try the
>>"antoine_dom0_debian distribution.  If it proves successful as a
dom0
>>distribution then you make it available from your location (and mirror)
>>until I get my facilities up an running.  You will probably encounter a
>>lot of heavy traffic on your server as I have a feeling this will be
>>very popular for many reasons. I would like to keep this "under the
>>table" until we prove by doing, that it will be an easy task for
anyone
>>to intall the "antoine_dom0_ debian" distribution and generate
DomU
>>instances.  I know you already have a number of DomU builds in tarball
>>form so anyone wanting to try Antoines distribution can get at least
>>some DomU packages from you.
>>
>>Hope you find this experiment worth while but I would very much
>>appreciate your making a kind of dry run on this. This success would be
>>usefull whether we set up a repository/server or the
"proposed"
>>repository/server were to become a reality.
>>
>>Antoine:
>>I hope we find you cooperative in this regard.  I think a few dry runs
>>are a good idea in order to ensure success of the kind of
>>repository/server we have been considering.
>>
>>Thanks to the both of you who I have found to be both easy to get along
>>with and very cooperative.  I wish I could participate (you guys have
>>all the fun) but my satellite facilites are still several weeks down the
>>road and all I have right now is 2 slow dial up lines because of my
>>remote location.  I would sure like to test it myself  -- perhaps I can
>>get a DVD blasted for Antoine''s Distribution from someone in
the big
>>city of Edmonton who has a high speed connection.
>>
>>Anyway I wish you both luck on this, let me know if you are willing to
>>do this so I don''t wait for results that are never fothcoming.
And have
>>a nice day or evening.  It''s late morning where I am.
>>
>>Thanks -- Ted
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
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>Xen-users mailing list
>Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
>http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>
>  
>


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