jim burns
2011-Sep-22 01:06 UTC
[Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
Pls cc: me as I am not subscribed.>From http://www.itworld.com/it-managementstrategy/205255/windows-8-oem-specs-may-block-linux-booting : Quote: Red Hat''s Matthew Garrett was one of the first to notice that according to the new logo rules, all Windows 8 machines will need to be have the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) instead of the venerable BIOS firmware layer. BIOS has been pretty much the sole firmware interface for PCs for a long time. The EFI system has slowly been making headway in recent years, and right now EFI firmware is compatible with Windows supporting the GUID Partition Table (GPT), OS X/Intel, and Linux 2.6 and beyond machines. EFI is seen as a better hardware/software interface than BIOS, since it is platform-agnostic, runs in 32- or 64-bit mode, and GPT machines can handle boot partitions of up to 9.4 zettabytes. (That''s 9.5 billion terabytes to you and me.) EFI, and the later UEFI specification, is not the problem for Linux. The problem is Microsoft''s other requirement for any Windows 8-certified client: the system must support secure booting. This hardened boot means that "all firmware and software in the boot process must be signed by a trusted Certificate Authority (CA)," according to slides from a recent presentation on the UEFI boot process made by Arie van der Hoeven, Microsoft Principal Lead Program Manager. :End Quote Putting aside the signing problem for now, the immediate problem is qemu-dm as the emulator for hvm guests, since it provides an emulated *bios*. I''ve always been curious about this, as I''ve wanted to look forward to the day when I can boot an Apple OS/X hvm guest. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
chris
2011-Sep-22 03:25 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
>From what I know the issue with OS X is not technical, it is simply thatapple''s EULA explicitly forbids their OS on non-apple hardware. I have seen a few vmware and virtual box os x images which seemed to work fairly ok, but no one is really working hard to make it work "well" because of the legal issues. I think that it will be a much bigger issue for windows though especially with windows 8 not too far away hopefully xen will be able to boot it :) On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 9:06 PM, jim burns <jim_burn@bellsouth.net> wrote:> Pls cc: me as I am not subscribed. > > >From > http://www.itworld.com/it-managementstrategy/205255/windows-8-oem-specs- > may-block-linux-booting : > > Quote: > > Red Hat''s Matthew Garrett was one of the first to notice that according to > the > new logo rules, all Windows 8 machines will need to be have the Unified > Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) instead of the venerable BIOS firmware > layer. BIOS has been pretty much the sole firmware interface for PCs for a > long time. > > The EFI system has slowly been making headway in recent years, and right > now > EFI firmware is compatible with Windows supporting the GUID Partition Table > (GPT), OS X/Intel, and Linux 2.6 and beyond machines. EFI is seen as a > better > hardware/software interface than BIOS, since it is platform-agnostic, runs > in > 32- or 64-bit mode, and GPT machines can handle boot partitions of up to > 9.4 > zettabytes. (That''s 9.5 billion terabytes to you and me.) > > EFI, and the later UEFI specification, is not the problem for Linux. The > problem is Microsoft''s other requirement for any Windows 8-certified > client: > the system must support secure booting. This hardened boot means that "all > firmware and software in the boot process must be signed by a trusted > Certificate Authority (CA)," according to slides from a recent presentation > on > the UEFI boot process made by Arie van der Hoeven, Microsoft Principal Lead > Program Manager. > > :End Quote > > Putting aside the signing problem for now, the immediate problem is qemu-dm > as > the emulator for hvm guests, since it provides an emulated *bios*. I''ve > always > been curious about this, as I''ve wanted to look forward to the day when I > can > boot an Apple OS/X hvm guest. > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
jim burns
2011-Sep-24 21:34 UTC
[Xen-users] Re: Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
On Wed September 21 2011, 9:06:38 PM, jim burns wrote:> Pls cc: me as I am not subscribed.[...]> Putting aside the signing problem for now, the immediate problem is qemu-dm > as the emulator for hvm guests, since it provides an emulated *bios*. I''ve > always been curious about this, as I''ve wanted to look forward to the day > when I can boot an Apple OS/X hvm guest.http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps has been reworked recently. Not sure if this was there before: "Add EFI support in Linux pv-ops. Jan Beulich wrote patches to make Xen hypervisor be able to compile as an EFI application. "Build xen.efi, write up a config file for it to read (most importantly so it knows what Dom0 kernel and initrd to use), and you should be good to go (provided the EFI implementation isn''t too flawed). This being an EFI application you can simply run it from the shell prompt. Parameter for Xen.efi is -cfg <file>, and <file> has: kernel=, ramdisk=, options=, video=gfx-x. The Linux pv-ops needs at least to parse XEN_VGATYPE_EFI_LFB data, E820 parsed (should be working) and give the ACPI subsystem a pointer to the ACPI DSDT without consulting EBDA." This doesn''t solve the Windows 8 hvm problem, but at least EFI is being considered. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
chris
2011-Sep-24 21:37 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Re: Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
what windows 8 hvm problem? im running the developer preview as a xen hvm, it works fine? On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 5:34 PM, jim burns <jim_burn@bellsouth.net> wrote:> On Wed September 21 2011, 9:06:38 PM, jim burns wrote: > > Pls cc: me as I am not subscribed. > [...] > > Putting aside the signing problem for now, the immediate problem is > qemu-dm > > as the emulator for hvm guests, since it provides an emulated *bios*. > I''ve > > always been curious about this, as I''ve wanted to look forward to the day > > when I can boot an Apple OS/X hvm guest. > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps has been reworked > recently. > Not sure if this was there before: > > "Add EFI support in Linux pv-ops. Jan Beulich wrote patches to make Xen > hypervisor be able to compile as an EFI application. "Build xen.efi, write > up > a config file for it to read (most importantly so it knows what Dom0 kernel > and initrd to use), and you should be good to go (provided the EFI > implementation isn''t too flawed). This being an EFI application you can > simply > run it from the shell prompt. Parameter for Xen.efi is -cfg <file>, and > <file> > has: kernel=, ramdisk=, options=, video=gfx-x. The Linux pv-ops needs at > least > to parse XEN_VGATYPE_EFI_LFB data, E820 parsed (should be working) and give > the ACPI subsystem a pointer to the ACPI DSDT without consulting EBDA." > > This doesn''t solve the Windows 8 hvm problem, but at least EFI is being > considered. > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
jim burns
2011-Sep-24 21:47 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Re: Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
On Sat September 24 2011, 5:37:14 PM, chris wrote:> what windows 8 hvm problem? im running the developer preview as a xen hvm, > it works fine?Go back to the first post in this thread, where I quote an article: "Red Hat''s Matthew Garrett was one of the first to notice that according to the new logo rules, all Windows 8 machines will need to be have the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) instead of the venerable BIOS firmware layer. BIOS has been pretty much the sole firmware interface for PCs for a long time." And as I said, putting aside the problem mentioned further down in the article that the EFI components need to be signed, that means that qemu-dm / hvmloader need to support the EFI way of booting. This is a roadmap requirement of Microsoft, and perhaps doesn''t affect "developer preview"s? _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
chris
2011-Sep-24 21:59 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Re: Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
we will have to see how the official win8 release plays out, but as it is now it is working with the current preview release of the os and atleast it looks like there is activity on the xen/efi front On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 5:47 PM, jim burns <jim_burn@bellsouth.net> wrote:> On Sat September 24 2011, 5:37:14 PM, chris wrote: > > what windows 8 hvm problem? im running the developer preview as a xen > hvm, > > it works fine? > > Go back to the first post in this thread, where I quote an article: > > "Red Hat''s Matthew Garrett was one of the first to notice that according to > the new logo rules, all Windows 8 machines will need to be have the Unified > Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) instead of the venerable BIOS firmware > layer. BIOS has been pretty much the sole firmware interface for PCs for a > long time." > > And as I said, putting aside the problem mentioned further down in the > article > that the EFI components need to be signed, that means that qemu-dm / > hvmloader > need to support the EFI way of booting. > > This is a roadmap requirement of Microsoft, and perhaps doesn''t affect > "developer preview"s? >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Todd Deshane
2011-Sep-24 22:43 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Re: Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 5:34 PM, jim burns <jim_burn@bellsouth.net> wrote:> On Wed September 21 2011, 9:06:38 PM, jim burns wrote: >> Pls cc: me as I am not subscribed. > [...] > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps has been reworked recently. > Not sure if this was there before: > > "Add EFI support in Linux pv-ops. Jan Beulich wrote patches to make Xen > hypervisor be able to compile as an EFI application. "Build xen.efi, write up > a config file for it to read (most importantly so it knows what Dom0 kernel > and initrd to use), and you should be good to go (provided the EFI > implementation isn''t too flawed). This being an EFI application you can simply > run it from the shell prompt. Parameter for Xen.efi is -cfg <file>, and <file> > has: kernel=, ramdisk=, options=, video=gfx-x. The Linux pv-ops needs at least > to parse XEN_VGATYPE_EFI_LFB data, E820 parsed (should be working) and give > the ACPI subsystem a pointer to the ACPI DSDT without consulting EBDA." > > This doesn''t solve the Windows 8 hvm problem, but at least EFI is being > considered. >There was a google summer of code project around UEFI: http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2011-tianocore/downloads/detail?name=Bei_Guan.tar.gz&can=2&q I don''t know if it was submitted to xen-devel, but you can follow up with the xen-devel mailing list if you are interested. Hope that helps. Thanks, Todd -- Todd Deshane http://www.linkedin.com/in/deshantm http://www.xen.org/products/cloudxen.html http://runningxen.com/ _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
hga@ancell-ent.com
2011-Sep-24 22:51 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Re: Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
From: "jim burns" <jim_burn@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 17:47:16 -0400 On Sat September 24 2011, 5:37:14 PM, chris wrote: > what windows 8 hvm problem? im running the developer > preview as a xen hvm, it works fine? Go back to the first post in this thread, where I quote an article: "Red Hat''s Matthew Garrett was one of the first to notice that according to the new logo rules, all Windows 8 machines will need to be have the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) instead of the venerable BIOS firmware layer. BIOS has been pretty much the sole firmware interface for PCs for a long time." As I understand it, the key word in the above quote is "logo". If a hardware company wants to use the Windows 8 branding, i.e. Microsoft''s trademarked logo, they''ve got to provide a secure UEFI ... which is a reasonable hardening of the system from a security viewpoint. I can''t image Microsoft preventing Windows 8 from booting on older hardware; for one thing, it would drastically slow down the adoption rate if the people who influence it could only try it out the final version after buying a new machine. So I would expect it to have no more or less trouble running as a DomU as any other Microsoft OS has in times past. - Harold _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
jim burns
2011-Sep-25 02:17 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
On Sat September 24 2011, 6:43:42 PM, Todd Deshane wrote:> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 5:34 PM, jim burns <jim_burn@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > On Wed September 21 2011, 9:06:38 PM, jim burns wrote: > >> Pls cc: me as I am not subscribed. > > > > [...] > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps has been reworked > > recently. Not sure if this was there before: > > > > "Add EFI support in Linux pv-ops. Jan Beulich wrote patches to make Xen > > hypervisor be able to compile as an EFI application. "Build xen.efi, > > write up a config file for it to read (most importantly so it knows > > what Dom0 kernel and initrd to use), and you should be good to go > > (provided the EFI implementation isn''t too flawed). This being an EFI > > application you can simply run it from the shell prompt. Parameter for > > Xen.efi is -cfg <file>, and <file> has: kernel=, ramdisk=, options=, > > video=gfx-x. The Linux pv-ops needs at least to parse > > XEN_VGATYPE_EFI_LFB data, E820 parsed (should be working) and give the > > ACPI subsystem a pointer to the ACPI DSDT without consulting EBDA." > > > > This doesn''t solve the Windows 8 hvm problem, but at least EFI is being > > considered. > > There was a google summer of code project around UEFI: > http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2011-tianocore/downloads/deta > il?name=Bei_Guan.tar.gz&can=2&q> > I don''t know if it was submitted to xen-devel, but you can follow up > with the xen-devel mailing list if you are interested. > > Hope that helps.The article I quoted was from http://www.itworld.com/it- managementstrategy/205255/windows-8-oem-specs- may-block-linux-booting : "Red Hat''s Matthew Garrett was one of the first to notice that according to the new logo rules, all Windows 8 machines will need to be have the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) instead of the venerable BIOS firmware layer. BIOS has been pretty much the sole firmware interface for PCs for a long time. The EFI system has slowly been making headway in recent years, and right now EFI firmware is compatible with Windows supporting the GUID Partition Table (GPT), OS X/Intel, and Linux 2.6 and beyond machines. EFI is seen as a better hardware/software interface than BIOS, since it is platform-agnostic, runs in 32- or 64-bit mode, and GPT machines can handle boot partitions of up to 9.4 zettabytes. (That''s 9.5 billion terabytes to you and me.) EFI, and the later UEFI specification, is not the problem for Linux. The problem is Microsoft''s other requirement for any Windows 8-certified client: the system must support secure booting. This hardened boot means that "all firmware and software in the boot process must be signed by a trusted Certificate Authority (CA)," according to slides from a recent presentation on the UEFI boot process made by Arie van der Hoeven, Microsoft Principal Lead Program Manager." Putting aside the signing problem for now, the immediate problem is qemu-dm as the emulator for hvm guests, since it provides an emulated *bios*. Or hvmloader as the bootloader. The url Todd provides points to a project to modify ''ovmf'', an EFI bootloader, to be xen hvm aware. Windows 8 will be a game changer, if the article is right. Hope plans are being made to incorporate some sort of EFI bootloader into xen. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Paul Durrant
2011-Sep-25 14:12 UTC
RE: [Xen-devel] Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
Since I was at the presentation in question, I asked about requirements for virtual platforms. I seem to recall the response being that UEFI was not a requirement for virtual platforms as yet and moreover I don''t believe hyper-v VMs UEFI boot. That said I''m not sure about the requirements surrounding trusted boot; I guess they will become clearer as the HCK requirements are firmed up. I''d certainly like to see HVM UEFI boot sooner rather than later as I think it will speed up Windows boot (and not just for Windows 8) quite a lot but I didn''t see any need to panic just yet. Paul> -----Original Message----- > From: xen-devel-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-devel- > bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of jim burns > Sent: 25 September 2011 03:18 > To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com; xen-devel@lists.xensource.com > Cc: Todd Deshane > Subject: [Xen-devel] Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm > guests booting under UEFI? > > On Sat September 24 2011, 6:43:42 PM, Todd Deshane wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 5:34 PM, jim burns > <jim_burn@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > On Wed September 21 2011, 9:06:38 PM, jim burns wrote: > > >> Pls cc: me as I am not subscribed. > > > > > > [...] > > > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps has been > reworked > > > recently. Not sure if this was there before: > > > > > > "Add EFI support in Linux pv-ops. Jan Beulich wrote patches to > make > > > Xen hypervisor be able to compile as an EFI application. "Build > > > xen.efi, write up a config file for it to read (most importantly > so > > > it knows what Dom0 kernel and initrd to use), and you should be > good > > > to go (provided the EFI implementation isn''t too flawed). This > being > > > an EFI application you can simply run it from the shell prompt. > > > Parameter for Xen.efi is -cfg <file>, and <file> has: kernel=, > > > ramdisk=, options=, video=gfx-x. The Linux pv-ops needs at least > to > > > parse XEN_VGATYPE_EFI_LFB data, E820 parsed (should be working) > and > > > give the ACPI subsystem a pointer to the ACPI DSDT without > consulting EBDA." > > > > > > This doesn''t solve the Windows 8 hvm problem, but at least EFI > is > > > being considered. > > > > There was a google summer of code project around UEFI: > > http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2011- > tianocore/download > > s/deta > > il?name=Bei_Guan.tar.gz&can=2&q> > > > I don''t know if it was submitted to xen-devel, but you can follow > up > > with the xen-devel mailing list if you are interested. > > > > Hope that helps. > > The article I quoted was from http://www.itworld.com/it- > managementstrategy/205255/windows-8-oem-specs- > may-block-linux-booting : > > "Red Hat''s Matthew Garrett was one of the first to notice that > according to the new logo rules, all Windows 8 machines will need to > be have the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) instead of > the venerable BIOS firmware layer. BIOS has been pretty much the > sole firmware interface for PCs for a long time. > > The EFI system has slowly been making headway in recent years, and > right now EFI firmware is compatible with Windows supporting the > GUID Partition Table (GPT), OS X/Intel, and Linux 2.6 and beyond > machines. EFI is seen as a better hardware/software interface than > BIOS, since it is platform-agnostic, runs in > 32- or 64-bit mode, and GPT machines can handle boot partitions of > up to 9.4 zettabytes. (That''s 9.5 billion terabytes to you and me.) > > EFI, and the later UEFI specification, is not the problem for Linux. > The problem is Microsoft''s other requirement for any Windows 8- > certified client: > the system must support secure booting. This hardened boot means > that "all firmware and software in the boot process must be signed > by a trusted Certificate Authority (CA)," according to slides from a > recent presentation on the UEFI boot process made by Arie van der > Hoeven, Microsoft Principal Lead Program Manager." > > Putting aside the signing problem for now, the immediate problem is > qemu-dm as the emulator for hvm guests, since it provides an > emulated *bios*. Or hvmloader as the bootloader. The url Todd > provides points to a project to modify ''ovmf'', an EFI bootloader, to > be xen hvm aware. Windows 8 will be a game changer, if the article > is right. Hope plans are being made to incorporate some sort of EFI > bootloader into xen. > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-devel mailing list > Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel_______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
Keir Fraser
2011-Sep-25 14:50 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
The GSOC project student seemed to be making good progress, and there were others on the OVMF side who were giving him support. I haven''t heard anything in about a month now, though. On 25/09/2011 07:12, "Paul Durrant" <Paul.Durrant@citrix.com> wrote:> Since I was at the presentation in question, I asked about requirements for > virtual platforms. I seem to recall the response being that UEFI was not a > requirement for virtual platforms as yet and moreover I don''t believe hyper-v > VMs UEFI boot. > That said I''m not sure about the requirements surrounding trusted boot; I > guess they will become clearer as the HCK requirements are firmed up. > > I''d certainly like to see HVM UEFI boot sooner rather than later as I think it > will speed up Windows boot (and not just for Windows 8) quite a lot but I > didn''t see any need to panic just yet. > > Paul > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: xen-devel-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-devel- >> bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of jim burns >> Sent: 25 September 2011 03:18 >> To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com; xen-devel@lists.xensource.com >> Cc: Todd Deshane >> Subject: [Xen-devel] Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm >> guests booting under UEFI? >> >> On Sat September 24 2011, 6:43:42 PM, Todd Deshane wrote: >>> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 5:34 PM, jim burns >> <jim_burn@bellsouth.net> wrote: >>>> On Wed September 21 2011, 9:06:38 PM, jim burns wrote: >>>>> Pls cc: me as I am not subscribed. >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps has been >> reworked >>>> recently. Not sure if this was there before: >>>> >>>> "Add EFI support in Linux pv-ops. Jan Beulich wrote patches to >> make >>>> Xen hypervisor be able to compile as an EFI application. "Build >>>> xen.efi, write up a config file for it to read (most importantly >> so >>>> it knows what Dom0 kernel and initrd to use), and you should be >> good >>>> to go (provided the EFI implementation isn''t too flawed). This >> being >>>> an EFI application you can simply run it from the shell prompt. >>>> Parameter for Xen.efi is -cfg <file>, and <file> has: kernel=, >>>> ramdisk=, options=, video=gfx-x. The Linux pv-ops needs at least >> to >>>> parse XEN_VGATYPE_EFI_LFB data, E820 parsed (should be working) >> and >>>> give the ACPI subsystem a pointer to the ACPI DSDT without >> consulting EBDA." >>>> >>>> This doesn''t solve the Windows 8 hvm problem, but at least EFI >> is >>>> being considered. >>> >>> There was a google summer of code project around UEFI: >>> http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2011- >> tianocore/download >>> s/deta >>> il?name=Bei_Guan.tar.gz&can=2&q>>> >>> I don''t know if it was submitted to xen-devel, but you can follow >> up >>> with the xen-devel mailing list if you are interested. >>> >>> Hope that helps. >> >> The article I quoted was from http://www.itworld.com/it- >> managementstrategy/205255/windows-8-oem-specs- >> may-block-linux-booting : >> >> "Red Hat''s Matthew Garrett was one of the first to notice that >> according to the new logo rules, all Windows 8 machines will need to >> be have the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) instead of >> the venerable BIOS firmware layer. BIOS has been pretty much the >> sole firmware interface for PCs for a long time. >> >> The EFI system has slowly been making headway in recent years, and >> right now EFI firmware is compatible with Windows supporting the >> GUID Partition Table (GPT), OS X/Intel, and Linux 2.6 and beyond >> machines. EFI is seen as a better hardware/software interface than >> BIOS, since it is platform-agnostic, runs in >> 32- or 64-bit mode, and GPT machines can handle boot partitions of >> up to 9.4 zettabytes. (That''s 9.5 billion terabytes to you and me.) >> >> EFI, and the later UEFI specification, is not the problem for Linux. >> The problem is Microsoft''s other requirement for any Windows 8- >> certified client: >> the system must support secure booting. This hardened boot means >> that "all firmware and software in the boot process must be signed >> by a trusted Certificate Authority (CA)," according to slides from a >> recent presentation on the UEFI boot process made by Arie van der >> Hoeven, Microsoft Principal Lead Program Manager." >> >> Putting aside the signing problem for now, the immediate problem is >> qemu-dm as the emulator for hvm guests, since it provides an >> emulated *bios*. Or hvmloader as the bootloader. The url Todd >> provides points to a project to modify ''ovmf'', an EFI bootloader, to >> be xen hvm aware. Windows 8 will be a game changer, if the article >> is right. Hope plans are being made to incorporate some sort of EFI >> bootloader into xen. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Xen-devel mailing list >> Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com >> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-devel mailing list > Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel_______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
Ian Campbell
2011-Sep-26 08:07 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
Adding Bei Guan and Andrey Warkentin who I think were student and mentor respectively. Hi guys! On Sun, 2011-09-25 at 15:50 +0100, Keir Fraser wrote:> The GSOC project student seemed to be making good progress, and there were > others on the OVMF side who were giving him support. I haven''t heard > anything in about a month now, though.It would be very interesting to get an update (or a pointer to one) of the status/result of this particular project now that the GSoC is over. Thanks, Ian.> > > On 25/09/2011 07:12, "Paul Durrant" <Paul.Durrant@citrix.com> wrote: > > > Since I was at the presentation in question, I asked about requirements for > > virtual platforms. I seem to recall the response being that UEFI was not a > > requirement for virtual platforms as yet and moreover I don''t believe hyper-v > > VMs UEFI boot. > > That said I''m not sure about the requirements surrounding trusted boot; I > > guess they will become clearer as the HCK requirements are firmed up. > > > > I''d certainly like to see HVM UEFI boot sooner rather than later as I think it > > will speed up Windows boot (and not just for Windows 8) quite a lot but I > > didn''t see any need to panic just yet. > > > > Paul > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: xen-devel-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-devel- > >> bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of jim burns > >> Sent: 25 September 2011 03:18 > >> To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com; xen-devel@lists.xensource.com > >> Cc: Todd Deshane > >> Subject: [Xen-devel] Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm > >> guests booting under UEFI? > >> > >> On Sat September 24 2011, 6:43:42 PM, Todd Deshane wrote: > >>> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 5:34 PM, jim burns > >> <jim_burn@bellsouth.net> wrote: > >>>> On Wed September 21 2011, 9:06:38 PM, jim burns wrote: > >>>>> Pls cc: me as I am not subscribed. > >>>> > >>>> [...] > >>>> http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenParavirtOps has been > >> reworked > >>>> recently. Not sure if this was there before: > >>>> > >>>> "Add EFI support in Linux pv-ops. Jan Beulich wrote patches to > >> make > >>>> Xen hypervisor be able to compile as an EFI application. "Build > >>>> xen.efi, write up a config file for it to read (most importantly > >> so > >>>> it knows what Dom0 kernel and initrd to use), and you should be > >> good > >>>> to go (provided the EFI implementation isn''t too flawed). This > >> being > >>>> an EFI application you can simply run it from the shell prompt. > >>>> Parameter for Xen.efi is -cfg <file>, and <file> has: kernel=, > >>>> ramdisk=, options=, video=gfx-x. The Linux pv-ops needs at least > >> to > >>>> parse XEN_VGATYPE_EFI_LFB data, E820 parsed (should be working) > >> and > >>>> give the ACPI subsystem a pointer to the ACPI DSDT without > >> consulting EBDA." > >>>> > >>>> This doesn''t solve the Windows 8 hvm problem, but at least EFI > >> is > >>>> being considered. > >>> > >>> There was a google summer of code project around UEFI: > >>> http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2011- > >> tianocore/download > >>> s/deta > >>> il?name=Bei_Guan.tar.gz&can=2&q> >>> > >>> I don''t know if it was submitted to xen-devel, but you can follow > >> up > >>> with the xen-devel mailing list if you are interested. > >>> > >>> Hope that helps. > >> > >> The article I quoted was from http://www.itworld.com/it- > >> managementstrategy/205255/windows-8-oem-specs- > >> may-block-linux-booting : > >> > >> "Red Hat''s Matthew Garrett was one of the first to notice that > >> according to the new logo rules, all Windows 8 machines will need to > >> be have the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) instead of > >> the venerable BIOS firmware layer. BIOS has been pretty much the > >> sole firmware interface for PCs for a long time. > >> > >> The EFI system has slowly been making headway in recent years, and > >> right now EFI firmware is compatible with Windows supporting the > >> GUID Partition Table (GPT), OS X/Intel, and Linux 2.6 and beyond > >> machines. EFI is seen as a better hardware/software interface than > >> BIOS, since it is platform-agnostic, runs in > >> 32- or 64-bit mode, and GPT machines can handle boot partitions of > >> up to 9.4 zettabytes. (That''s 9.5 billion terabytes to you and me.) > >> > >> EFI, and the later UEFI specification, is not the problem for Linux. > >> The problem is Microsoft''s other requirement for any Windows 8- > >> certified client: > >> the system must support secure booting. This hardened boot means > >> that "all firmware and software in the boot process must be signed > >> by a trusted Certificate Authority (CA)," according to slides from a > >> recent presentation on the UEFI boot process made by Arie van der > >> Hoeven, Microsoft Principal Lead Program Manager." > >> > >> Putting aside the signing problem for now, the immediate problem is > >> qemu-dm as the emulator for hvm guests, since it provides an > >> emulated *bios*. Or hvmloader as the bootloader. The url Todd > >> provides points to a project to modify ''ovmf'', an EFI bootloader, to > >> be xen hvm aware. Windows 8 will be a game changer, if the article > >> is right. Hope plans are being made to incorporate some sort of EFI > >> bootloader into xen. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Xen-devel mailing list > >> Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com > >> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Xen-devel mailing list > > Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com > > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel > > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-devel mailing list > Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel_______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
Andrei E. Warkentin
2011-Sep-26 19:18 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
Hi Ian, Keir, others - I was the mentor for the project. We got to the point where OVMF on Xen was indistinguishable from OVMF on QEMU as far as emulated device support (Bei can confirm - is this true for network/PXE boot as well?). ACPI and DMI info published from the hvmloader is consumed by the firmware and published. I believe we could boot RedHat. Last I checked Win7 was unbootable under QEMU with OVMF (so we didn''t check) and I don''t know the status of that (if I remember correctly, it BSODs in bootvid.sys (under QEMU) due to low memory area not being reserved away, or because there is no fake IDT set up - that seems to match up with the hoops I needed to do doing similar work on Hyper-V). OVMF is aware of Xen, and work was being done on a PV block device (Bei got as far as hypercall support and xenstore). Bei, are you working on the PV block driver? I want to say we''re pretty close on that one (PV block not very hard, and neither is the block device abstraction for EFI). I/Bei had patches against hvmloader (to support booting OVMF) and Bei had patches against the management stack as well to expose the functionality of picking OVMF as the firmware. I believe all of these were sent to xen development list. Jordan Justen (Intel) had been working on integrating the OVMF changes last I checked, but I am not positive (I just changed jobs and relocated, and still am not on the TianoCore mailing list). I am adding him to the reply. A 2011/9/26 Ian Campbell <Ian.Campbell@citrix.com>:> Adding Bei Guan and Andrey Warkentin who I think were student and mentor > respectively. Hi guys! > > On Sun, 2011-09-25 at 15:50 +0100, Keir Fraser wrote: >> The GSOC project student seemed to be making good progress, and there were >> others on the OVMF side who were giving him support. I haven''t heard >> anything in about a month now, though. > > It would be very interesting to get an update (or a pointer to one) of > the status/result of this particular project now that the GSoC is over. > > Thanks, > Ian._______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Ian Campbell
2011-Sep-27 14:41 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
On Mon, 2011-09-26 at 20:18 +0100, Andrei E. Warkentin wrote:> Hi Ian, Keir, others - > > I was the mentor for the project. We got to the point where OVMF on > Xen was indistinguishable from OVMF on QEMU as far > as emulated device support (Bei can confirm - is this true for > network/PXE boot as well?). ACPI and DMI info published from > the hvmloader is consumed by the firmware and published. I believe we > could boot RedHat. Last I checked Win7 was unbootable under QEMU with > OVMF (so we didn''t check) and I don''t know the status of that (if I > remember correctly, it BSODs in bootvid.sys (under QEMU) due to low > memory area not being reserved away, or because there is no fake IDT > set up - that seems to match up with the hoops I needed to do doing > similar work on Hyper-V). > > OVMF is aware of Xen, and work was being done on a PV block device > (Bei got as far as hypercall support and xenstore). Bei, are you > working on the PV block driver? I want to say we''re pretty close on > that one (PV block not very hard, and neither is the block device > abstraction for EFI).Thanks for the update, it sounds like it''s pretty far along. The PV enhancements etc sound great but it would be nice if we could tie up the baseline stuff so that folks can start using it. Is Bei still working on the project since the end of GSoC? If not is there an archive of what he accomplished so that we can find someone to pick up on it if necessary?> I/Bei had patches against hvmloader (to support booting OVMF) and Bei > had patches against the management stack as well to expose the > functionality of picking OVMF as the firmware. I believe all of these > were sent to xen development list.I remember these. A bunch got applied after some discussion but IIRC not all of them were? Bei, are you able to resend the ones which did not? Is there a wiki page or something somewhere detailing what a user needs to do (i.e. build steps, guest cfg etc) in order to use the UEFI support? Cheers, Ian.> > Jordan Justen (Intel) had been working on integrating the OVMF changes > last I checked, but I am not positive (I just changed jobs and > relocated, and still am not on the TianoCore mailing list). I am > adding him to the reply. > > A > > > 2011/9/26 Ian Campbell <Ian.Campbell@citrix.com>: > > Adding Bei Guan and Andrey Warkentin who I think were student and mentor > > respectively. Hi guys! > > > > On Sun, 2011-09-25 at 15:50 +0100, Keir Fraser wrote: > >> The GSOC project student seemed to be making good progress, and there were > >> others on the OVMF side who were giving him support. I haven''t heard > >> anything in about a month now, though. > > > > It would be very interesting to get an update (or a pointer to one) of > > the status/result of this particular project now that the GSoC is over. > > > > Thanks, > > Ian._______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
Keir Fraser
2011-Sep-27 15:26 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
On 27/09/2011 07:41, "Ian Campbell" <Ian.Campbell@eu.citrix.com> wrote:>> OVMF is aware of Xen, and work was being done on a PV block device >> (Bei got as far as hypercall support and xenstore). Bei, are you >> working on the PV block driver? I want to say we''re pretty close on >> that one (PV block not very hard, and neither is the block device >> abstraction for EFI). > > Thanks for the update, it sounds like it''s pretty far along. > > The PV enhancements etc sound great but it would be nice if we could tie > up the baseline stuff so that folks can start using it.Yes, we''d rather get something basically working into the tree, than wait for everything to be absolutely perfect.> Is Bei still working on the project since the end of GSoC? If not is > there an archive of what he accomplished so that we can find someone to > pick up on it if necessary? > >> I/Bei had patches against hvmloader (to support booting OVMF) and Bei >> had patches against the management stack as well to expose the >> functionality of picking OVMF as the firmware. I believe all of these >> were sent to xen development list. > > I remember these. A bunch got applied after some discussion but IIRC not > all of them were? Bei, are you able to resend the ones which did not?Pretty much all the non-ovmf-specific changes went in (i.e., the most contentious bits, to existing hvmloader code, should be pretty much checked in already). -- Keir> Is there a wiki page or something somewhere detailing what a user needs > to do (i.e. build steps, guest cfg etc) in order to use the UEFI > support?_______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
Andrei E. Warkentin
2011-Oct-10 18:52 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
Hi, 2011/9/27 Keir Fraser <keir.xen@gmail.com>:> On 27/09/2011 07:41, "Ian Campbell" <Ian.Campbell@eu.citrix.com> wrote: > >>> OVMF is aware of Xen, and work was being done on a PV block device >>> (Bei got as far as hypercall support and xenstore). Bei, are you >>> working on the PV block driver? I want to say we''re pretty close on >>> that one (PV block not very hard, and neither is the block device >>> abstraction for EFI). >> >> Thanks for the update, it sounds like it''s pretty far along. >> >> The PV enhancements etc sound great but it would be nice if we could tie >> up the baseline stuff so that folks can start using it. > > Yes, we''d rather get something basically working into the tree, than wait > for everything to be absolutely perfect. > >> Is Bei still working on the project since the end of GSoC? If not is >> there an archive of what he accomplished so that we can find someone to >> pick up on it if necessary? >> >>> I/Bei had patches against hvmloader (to support booting OVMF) and Bei >>> had patches against the management stack as well to expose the >>> functionality of picking OVMF as the firmware. I believe all of these >>> were sent to xen development list. >> >> I remember these. A bunch got applied after some discussion but IIRC not >> all of them were? Bei, are you able to resend the ones which did not? > > Pretty much all the non-ovmf-specific changes went in (i.e., the most > contentious bits, to existing hvmloader code, should be pretty much checked > in already). >This is just a ping to let you know that I''m still on this. I''ll update you guys as soon as I can get Bei''s work on top of latest hg tree building and running. Thanks, A _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
Ian Campbell
2011-Oct-10 18:57 UTC
Re: [Xen-devel] Re: [Xen-users] Is xen planning to support hvm guests booting under UEFI?
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 19:52 +0100, Andrei E. Warkentin wrote:> > This is just a ping to let you know that I''m still on this. I''ll > update you guys as soon as > I can get Bei''s work on top of latest hg tree building and running.Thanks Andrei. If there''s anything I can do to help please let me know. Ian. _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel