Howdy gang - any idea if I could use Xen on my Mac Pro to run Windows in parallel to OSX and use both such that graphics apps have access to the actual graphics hardware? Thanks, James _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
> Howdy gang - any idea if I could use Xen on my Mac Pro to run Windows in > parallel to OSX and use both such that graphics apps have access to the > actual graphics hardware?Uhhh, the answer is probably "Mostly no" ;-) I''ve recently seen some support committed to Xen to allow you to pass a graphics adaptor to a domU, which is a step in the right direction for what you''re trying to achieve. I don''t believe it has support for run time switching which domain has access to the graphics card, though, which you would also seem to require. Also, MacOS X isn''t going to boot under Xen without some hacking, I think, since Xen''s HVM mode emulates a conventional PC without EFI, etc. You could possibly make a hacked version of OS X work. I think somebody might have got OS X running in a Xen domain but I imagine the graphical performance of the virtualised framebuffer would detract from the "Mac experience" somewhat :-( Cheers, Mark -- Push Me Pull You - Distributed SCM tool (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~maw48/pmpu/) _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 12:52 PM, James Thomas Snell <james@dawning.ca> wrote:> Howdy gang - any idea if I could use Xen on my Mac Pro to run Windows in > parallel to OSX and use both such that graphics apps have access to the > actual graphics hardware?Nope... but you may want to check out Parallels (http://www.parallels.com/en/) and VMWare... _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
> Indeed, that''d make sense... > > Well, I''d imagine that if one could pass ctrl of a video card to a DomU > machine, then that could open up a lot of fun possiblities not just for > OSX.Indeed, we live in interesting times. Even more awesome would be to be able to pass multiple video cards to different guests but I believe this is not currently supported.> The way I''d control the rid is get a VNC server running on the Dom0 > machine and then remotely just control things through that - heck, it''d be > especially fun as one could use VNC''s webserver to control things. :)Would be cool, yes. I assume the current solution assumes that the user somehow net-logins to dom0. I''ve not looked at it, just saw the changeset comments.> I wonder exactly what else stands in the way of getting OSX to see a the > native apple hardware from the DomU perspective? I''d imagine if there was > EFI support for DomUs as well as control of whatever hardware addresses > that must be contacted to verify the machine is "genuine" - then the DomU > should be happy with unhacked osx. Though the osx86 project really has come > a very long way.Quite possibly true. EFI support isn''t available for domU as far as I know. I expect it will be, one day. Beyond that I don''t know how much of the hardware provided by default is supported by OS X out of the box. There are obvious licensing issues and I doubt Apple would be particularly helpful support-wise about OS X running in a Xen VM, even on an Apple branded box. Back in the old days, before x86 support in OS X, there was talk of porting the Darwin kernel to run as a Xen PV guest. The PPC Xen project is, as far as I know, dead now and PPC Macs are fading into the past :-( Possibly you could port Darwin x86 to run as a PV guest but I don''t know who''d have the motivation to do that these days. Cheers, Mark> Anyway, I''d work on it if I had the time, but no dice for now. > > Cheers friends. > > On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 1:09 PM, Mark Williamson < > > mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote: > > > Howdy gang - any idea if I could use Xen on my Mac Pro to run Windows > > > in parallel to OSX and use both such that graphics apps have access to > > > the actual graphics hardware? > > > > Uhhh, the answer is probably "Mostly no" ;-) > > > > I''ve recently seen some support committed to Xen to allow you to pass a > > graphics adaptor to a domU, which is a step in the right direction for > > what you''re trying to achieve. I don''t believe it has support for run > > time switching which domain has access to the graphics card, though, > > which you would also seem to require. > > > > Also, MacOS X isn''t going to boot under Xen without some hacking, I > > think, since Xen''s HVM mode emulates a conventional PC without EFI, etc. > > You could > > possibly make a hacked version of OS X work. I think somebody might have > > got > > OS X running in a Xen domain but I imagine the graphical performance of > > the virtualised framebuffer would detract from the "Mac experience" > > somewhat > > > > :-( > > > > Cheers, > > Mark > > > > -- > > Push Me Pull You - Distributed SCM tool ( > > http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~maw48/pmpu/<http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/%7Emaw48/pmp > >u/> )-- Push Me Pull You - Distributed SCM tool (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~maw48/pmpu/) _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
> Yeah, just occurs to me that if OpenGL and hopefully DirectX (though I''m > less optimistic about it) add some kind of hardware specification for > virtualization support, then this problem could be reduced in complexity a > reasonable amount.Various people have done work on supporting virtualisation of OpenGL already. Search for VMGL for instance. I know of some people who have hopes for virtualising both OpenGL and DirectX on Xen but their work is in the planning stages only and I don''t know if it''ll be feasible to achieve all their goals and support 3D too.> Apple MAY not be that helpful in virtualizing OSX even on their hardware, > but I''d bet the osx86 team(s) would be insanely helpful.That''s true. ISTR Apple talking about MacOS virtual machines at some point but I don''t know what their stance is. I''d have thought they they''ll have to support it eventually, on their own hardware at least.> At any rate - this is all guess work on my part. Who knows for certain.Indeed. Time will reveal all to us, I suspect. Cheers, Mark> On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Mark Williamson < > > mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote: > > > Indeed, that''d make sense... > > > > > > Well, I''d imagine that if one could pass ctrl of a video card to a DomU > > > machine, then that could open up a lot of fun possiblities not just for > > > OSX. > > > > Indeed, we live in interesting times. Even more awesome would be to be > > able > > to pass multiple video cards to different guests but I believe this is > > not currently supported. > > > > > The way I''d control the rid is get a VNC server running on the Dom0 > > > machine and then remotely just control things through that - heck, it''d > > > > be > > > > > especially fun as one could use VNC''s webserver to control things. :) > > > > Would be cool, yes. I assume the current solution assumes that the user > > somehow net-logins to dom0. I''ve not looked at it, just saw the > > changeset comments. > > > > > I wonder exactly what else stands in the way of getting OSX to see a > > > the native apple hardware from the DomU perspective? I''d imagine if > > > there was EFI support for DomUs as well as control of whatever hardware > > > addresses that must be contacted to verify the machine is "genuine" - > > > then the DomU should be happy with unhacked osx. Though the osx86 > > > project really has > > > > come > > > > > a very long way. > > > > Quite possibly true. EFI support isn''t available for domU as far as I > > know. I > > expect it will be, one day. Beyond that I don''t know how much of the > > hardware provided by default is supported by OS X out of the box. > > > > There are obvious licensing issues and I doubt Apple would be > > particularly helpful support-wise about OS X running in a Xen VM, even on > > an Apple branded > > box. > > > > Back in the old days, before x86 support in OS X, there was talk of > > porting the Darwin kernel to run as a Xen PV guest. The PPC Xen project > > is, as far as I know, dead now and PPC Macs are fading into the past :-( > > Possibly you could port Darwin x86 to run as a PV guest but I don''t know > > who''d have the motivation to do that these days. > > > > Cheers, > > Mark > > > > > Anyway, I''d work on it if I had the time, but no dice for now. > > > > > > Cheers friends. > > > > > > On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 1:09 PM, Mark Williamson < > > > > > > mark.williamson@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote: > > > > > Howdy gang - any idea if I could use Xen on my Mac Pro to run > > > > > Windows in parallel to OSX and use both such that graphics apps > > > > > have access > > > > to > > > > > > > the actual graphics hardware? > > > > > > > > Uhhh, the answer is probably "Mostly no" ;-) > > > > > > > > I''ve recently seen some support committed to Xen to allow you to pass > > > > a graphics adaptor to a domU, which is a step in the right direction > > > > for what you''re trying to achieve. I don''t believe it has support > > > > for run time switching which domain has access to the graphics card, > > > > though, which you would also seem to require. > > > > > > > > Also, MacOS X isn''t going to boot under Xen without some hacking, I > > > > think, since Xen''s HVM mode emulates a conventional PC without EFI, > > > > etc. > > > > > > You could > > > > possibly make a hacked version of OS X work. I think somebody might > > > > have > > > > > > got > > > > OS X running in a Xen domain but I imagine the graphical performance > > > > of the virtualised framebuffer would detract from the "Mac > > > > experience" somewhat > > > > > > > > :-( > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Push Me Pull You - Distributed SCM tool ( > > > > http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~maw48/pmpu/<http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/%7Emaw48 > > > >/pmpu/> > > > > <http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/%7Emaw48/pmp > > > > > >u/> ) > > > > -- > > Push Me Pull You - Distributed SCM tool ( > > http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~maw48/pmpu/<http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/%7Emaw48/pmp > >u/> )-- Push Me Pull You - Distributed SCM tool (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~maw48/pmpu/) _______________________________________________ Xen-devel mailing list Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel