Hi all! I've read http://reactor-core.org/ogg-tagging.html and http://www.vorbis.com/ot/20030303.html#id2726753 about the goals and non-goals of vorbis comments, but I'm still unsure: 1) Is it by purpose to forget about CDA's index feature because it's so rarely used or did nobody here ever thought about it? -> Add an INDEXNUMER field? 2) If "Vorbis comments are the equivalent of a quick note scribbled on the bottom of a CDR", it would be nice to know the total number of items in a series to be shure to have all parts together (at least I note the total number of disks on the bottom of a CDR). So what about the conceptually same: -> Add a TRACKTOTAL, DISKTOTAL and INDEXMAX (not INDEXTOTAL for disambiguation, since indeces count from zero in the red book standard) 3) Or would you consider it wiser reusing (abusing) existing standard vorbis fields and note the total number of disks/tracks/indeces inside the very same field like TRACKNUMBER=3/15 or would this break more things since apps expect a number in there? Or even stuff the indices in there too, like TRACKNUMBER=3/15.2/5? Or maybe also the disk number TRACKNUMBER=1/3-3/15.2/5?! I personally dislike 3) and have currently coded it with seperate new fields. But since I'm free to change the application in any way I want, some guidance on this topic would be really appreciated! Thanks in advance, Mark.
This was discussed a couple of years ago and a few of us decided to use TRACKTOTAL for storing the total number of tracks in an album. It's not an official tag but I implemented this in WinVorbis. http://winvorbis.stationplaylist.com Regards, Ross. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Doll" <doll@tm.uka.de> To: <vorbis@xiph.org> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 11:35 AM Subject: [Vorbis] Indices and totals Hi all! I've read http://reactor-core.org/ogg-tagging.html and http://www.vorbis.com/ot/20030303.html#id2726753 about the goals and non-goals of vorbis comments, but I'm still unsure: 1) Is it by purpose to forget about CDA's index feature because it's so rarely used or did nobody here ever thought about it? -> Add an INDEXNUMER field? 2) If "Vorbis comments are the equivalent of a quick note scribbled on the bottom of a CDR", it would be nice to know the total number of items in a series to be shure to have all parts together (at least I note the total number of disks on the bottom of a CDR). So what about the conceptually same: -> Add a TRACKTOTAL, DISKTOTAL and INDEXMAX (not INDEXTOTAL for disambiguation, since indeces count from zero in the red book standard) 3) Or would you consider it wiser reusing (abusing) existing standard vorbis fields and note the total number of disks/tracks/indeces inside the very same field like TRACKNUMBER=3/15 or would this break more things since apps expect a number in there? Or even stuff the indices in there too, like TRACKNUMBER=3/15.2/5? Or maybe also the disk number TRACKNUMBER=1/3-3/15.2/5?! I personally dislike 3) and have currently coded it with seperate new fields. But since I'm free to change the application in any way I want, some guidance on this topic would be really appreciated! Thanks in advance, Mark. _______________________________________________ Vorbis mailing list Vorbis@xiph.org http://lists.xiph.org/mailman/listinfo/vorbis
On Mon, 2005-07-11 at 11:35, Mark Doll wrote:> Hi all! > > I've read http://reactor-core.org/ogg-tagging.html and > http://www.vorbis.com/ot/20030303.html#id2726753 about the goals and > non-goals of vorbis comments, but I'm still unsure:> (etc)> I personally dislike 3) and have currently coded it with seperate new > fields. But since I'm free to change the application in any way I want, > some guidance on this topic would be really appreciated!There's pretty much nothing stopping you from doing as you please. Need a tag? Make it up. Mine are full of PRODUCER and NATION_OF_ORIGIN tags, because I care about that stuff, and it's not exactly going to hurt anyone else. Of course, it does make sense to find out if anyone else out there has the same needs that you do, so you can standardise on something and implement software to take advantage of it. John
Hi Ross! Ross Levis wrote:> This was discussed a couple of years ago and a few of us decided to use > TRACKTOTAL for storing the total number of tracks in an album. It's not > an official tag but I implemented this in WinVorbis. > http://winvorbis.stationplaylist.comOK. Thanks for the hint! But I'm still unsure about how to handle indices: Mark Doll wrote:> 1) Is it by purpose to forget about CDA's index feature because it's so > rarely used or did nobody here ever thought about it? > -> Add an INDEXNUMER field?I still own two standalone CDA players which show (and can skip to) idices within a track, but I've noticed that most of the new players omit this feature, that's why I've asked. I would like to adopt this feature to the brave new computer/internet world by introducing INDEXNUMBER (and INDEXMAX). Is there anybody out there who had the same need and maybe had implemented this in a different way? At least CDs are still manufactured with this feature. I bought my last CD with indices only a few weeks ago. Mark. Mark Doll wrote:> 2) If "Vorbis comments are the equivalent of a quick note scribbled on > the bottom of a CDR", it would be nice to know the total number of items > in a series to be shure to have all parts together (at least I note the > total number of disks on the bottom of a CDR). So what about the > conceptually same: > -> Add a TRACKTOTAL, DISKTOTAL and INDEXMAX (not INDEXTOTAL for > disambiguation, since indeces count from zero in the red book standard) > > 3) Or would you consider it wiser reusing (abusing) existing standard > vorbis fields and note the total number of disks/tracks/indeces inside > the very same field like TRACKNUMBER=3/15 or would this break more > things since apps expect a number in there? Or even stuff the indices in > there too, like TRACKNUMBER=3/15.2/5? Or maybe also the disk number > TRACKNUMBER=1/3-3/15.2/5?! > > I personally dislike 3) and have currently coded it with seperate new > fields. But since I'm free to change the application in any way I want, > some guidance on this topic would be really appreciated! > > Thanks in advance, > > Mark. >
On 7/11/05, Mark Doll <doll@tm.uka.de> wrote:> Hi all! > > I've read http://reactor-core.org/ogg-tagging.html and > http://www.vorbis.com/ot/20030303.html#id2726753 about the goals and > non-goals of vorbis comments, but I'm still unsure:You should note that the reactor-core document is from a single guy unaffiliated with xiph, and we mostly disagree with him. We've basically taken a conservative approach with adding 'official' tags - because the system is flexible, people can use unofficial ones with no problems at all. If they become really widespread and seem to have real usefulness to them, of course, we'd adopt them.> > 1) Is it by purpose to forget about CDA's index feature because it's so > rarely used or did nobody here ever thought about it? > -> Add an INDEXNUMER field?As you've noted, it's rarely used - care to explain what it actually is/does?> > 2) If "Vorbis comments are the equivalent of a quick note scribbled on > the bottom of a CDR", it would be nice to know the total number of items > in a series to be shure to have all parts together (at least I note the > total number of disks on the bottom of a CDR). So what about the > conceptually same: > -> Add a TRACKTOTAL, DISKTOTAL and INDEXMAX (not INDEXTOTAL for > disambiguation, since indeces count from zero in the red book standard) > > 3) Or would you consider it wiser reusing (abusing) existing standard > vorbis fields and note the total number of disks/tracks/indeces inside > the very same field like TRACKNUMBER=3/15 or would this break more > things since apps expect a number in there? Or even stuff the indices in > there too, like TRACKNUMBER=3/15.2/5? Or maybe also the disk number > TRACKNUMBER=1/3-3/15.2/5?!Remember, all these fields are just text - you should put in whatever you find useful! I'm not suggesting that this discussion shouldn't happen - it's useful to talk about what tags people actually find important to use, just that you shouldn't feel that you absolutely _need_ consensus about this sort of thing before you start using your tags. Mike
Hi Alex! Alex Mauer wrote:> Speaking of indexes, do you happen to know of any software > players/rippers that can handle them? Or any CD burning software that > can create/work with these?EAC (http://exactaudiocopy.de/, Windows only) can read out indices and can create appropriate cuesheets. And EAC should be able to burn indices according to those self-created cuesheets (never tried it, though). I personally use EAC only for ripping. It supports ripping a track into the several parts based on indices (Alt-X/Alt-Shift-X) but the current support is somehow limited: no CRC check, no automatic tagging, only automatic naming of the created files (i.e. 06.02 Track Title). Since it's closed source I've asked Andre (the author of EAC) about his opinion about improving the index support, but until now I havn't got an answer from him. So currently I keep on manually adding the index tag according to the file name. For playback I use the Slimserver (http://slimdevices.com/, Perl/Multiplatform). Since this is open source, I've done a very rudimentary support for indices (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1749). The current status of this "bug" is "for future enhancement", so I thought, now is the right time to check if there's somebody else out there who might be interested in this feature, too. If not, no problem, I will keep on maintaining my personal patch and won't care anymore. Mark. P.S.: If index support is of greater interest: The second piece of software I personally use and that I'd like to add index support to is amaroK (http://amarok.kde.org/). -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 264 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/vorbis/attachments/20050711/1aa26d14/signature.pgp