Dear all, I hope you will forgive me for posting without lurking, and indeed, without even being subscribed to the list. Let me first say that efforts such as Ogg shows there is still a lot of good in mankind, this is truly a great effort! While I haven't been lurking, I've been looking through the archives to see if this stuff has been discussed before, and I have also tried to read the docs, but a few files aren't there yet. That's OK. My primary reason for writing, is a really mindblowing lecture I attended a few weeks ago, given by Professor Jaan Pelt of Tartu Observatory in Estonia. Professor Pelt argued "don't sample regularily!" If you sample regularily, you are limited by the Nyquist theorem, but you're not if you don't, so given a finite number of sampling points, you should sample here and there instead of regularily. Research has also been done to figure out an optimal sampling strategy. I have very little training in signal processing, but it occured to me that this should have applications in sound compression. He said that the mathematical basis for this has been known for a few decades but that the principles has seen surprisingly little use in astronomy, physics, computer science and so on (himself (and I) being an astronomer). I thought I'd pass on the idea, just in case... I guess many Vorbis streams have been sampled long before a Vorbis encoder sees them, either being WAV files, or ripping from CDs. In that case, I thought that one might compress by actually using an irregular subset of the samples, and yet be able restore the sound with good quality. Just a thought. I've been reading a few posts on MIME types in the archives, and I wonder if it has been discussed registering the MIME type with IANA? It seems a natural thing to do at this stage...? So, instead of application/x-ogg, get application/ogg for it. I found some useful information about registering at <URL:http://www.alvestrand.no/harald/ietf/media-types.html> I understand there is a great discussion on whether multiple MIME types should be used... Well, I like the sound of audio/vorbis.... :-) Finally, has any thought been given to the possibility of getting the W3C to recommend Vorbis like they did with PNG? Well, it doesn't seem to have helped the adoption of PNG a lot, but it's a thought. Keep up the great work! Best, Kjetil -- Kjetil Kjernsmo Graduate astronomy-student Problems worthy of attack University of Oslo, Norway Prove their worth by hitting back E-mail: kjetikj@astro.uio.no - Piet Hein Homepage <URL:http://www.astro.uio.no/~kjetikj/> Webmaster@skepsis.no --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
> Let me first say that efforts such as Ogg shows there is still a lot of > good in mankind, this is truly a great effort!Agree eith 2nd, disagree with 1st, I'm afraid. Never has been, either.> While I haven't been lurking, I've been looking through the archives to > see if this stuff has been discussed before, and I have also tried to read"delayed lurking"? :-)> the docs, but a few files aren't there yet. That's OK. > > My primary reason for writing, is a really mindblowing lecture I attended > a few weeks ago, given by Professor Jaan Pelt of Tartu Observatory in > Estonia. Professor Pelt argued "don't sample regularily!" If you sample > regularily, you are limited by the Nyquist theorem, but you're not if > you don't, so given a finite number of sampling points, you should sampleMy ears are limited by hardware, uh, wetware.> here and there instead of regularily. Research has also been done to > figure out an optimal sampling strategy. I have very little training in > signal processing, but it occured to me that this should have applications > in sound compression. He said that the mathematical basis for this has > been known for a few decades but that the principles has seen surprisingly > little use in astronomy, physics, computer science and so on (himself (and > I) being an astronomer). I thought I'd pass on the idea, just in case...Taking the same number of samples as in uniform sampling, but instead uniformly random sampled, will increase the Nyquist freq. to at most double the normal frequency.> I guess many Vorbis streams have been sampled long before a Vorbis encoder > sees them, either being WAV files, or ripping from CDs. In that case, I > thought that one might compress by actually using an irregular subset of > the samples, and yet be able restore the sound with good quality. Just a > thought.Problem is, only random sampling will help us, and then we will have to include the sample points in our bitstream. I will try to find some stuff about this ireegular sampling, 'cause it's a need idea, anyway. Do you have any pointers to papers etc.?> Finally, has any thought been given to the possibility of getting the W3C > to recommend Vorbis like they did with PNG? Well, it doesn't seem to have > helped the adoption of PNG a lot, but it's a thought.Not Vorbis, but Ogg. Sounds great :-) Maybe they even will do it, 'cause ogg is a container format, i.e. anything can be inside (like in png).> Keep up the great work!Ok, ok, I'll send some useful stuff soon. Been a while... Dag dag, Segher --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-dev-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.