On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 05:07:04PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote:> On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 11:06:58AM +0200, Ady wrote: > > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:21:32PM -0800, Patrick Masotta wrote: > > > > [ ... Failed to build gnu-efi. ... ] > > > > For some reason I have not received the original email from Patrick > > Masotta in my inbox, so I am using the first reply sent by Geert in > > order to actually reply to the OP... > > > What is visible in the log files of the mail server > of the Syslinux mailinglist? > > Could the mailinglist mail server deliver to the hotmail mail server > that Ady is using? > > > The idea behind those questions is to find out where > the e-mail got lost for 'Ady <ady-sf AT hotmail DOT com>' > > > Additional information of the "lost" e-mail > Message-ID: <1419193292.37517.YahooMailBasic at web161706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > > Received: from terminus.zytor.com (terminus.zytor.com [IPv6:2001:1868:205::10]) > by gpm.stappers.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80F313040F7 > for <stappers at stappers.nl>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:43:35 +0100 (CET) > Received: from terminus.zytor.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) > by terminus.zytor.com (8.14.8/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sBLKLk6j024306; > Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:22:37 -0800 > Received: from nm5-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com > (nm5-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.150]) > by terminus.zytor.com (8.14.8/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sBLKLcnR024278 > for <syslinux at zytor.com>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:21:43 -0800 > >Addtional information: On 2014-12-30 got I as moderator of this ML bounce notification with text as ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <***@lnds.dk> (reason: 550 5.7.1 The messages violates the DMARC policy of yahoo.com (83c3fcea-9015-11e4-95e4-b82a72d0454d)) <***@xs4all.nl> (reason: 550 5.7.1 DMARC failure for domain yahoo.com, policy reject) <***@yahoo.co.id> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) <***@yahoo.co.in> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) <***@yahoo.co.kr> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) <**0 at yahoo.co.uk> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) <**1 at yahoo.co.uk> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) <**0 at yahoo.de> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) <**1 at yahoo.de> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) <**0 at yahoo.fr> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) For those who have the power to change it: Please do! Groeten Geert Stappers -- Leven en laten leven
> On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 05:07:04PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 11:06:58AM +0200, Ady wrote: > > > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:21:32PM -0800, Patrick Masotta wrote: > > > > > [ ... Failed to build gnu-efi. ... ] > > > > > > For some reason I have not received the original email from Patrick > > > Masotta in my inbox, so I am using the first reply sent by Geert in > > > order to actually reply to the OP... > > > > > > What is visible in the log files of the mail server > > of the Syslinux mailinglist? > > > > Could the mailinglist mail server deliver to the hotmail mail server > > that Ady is using? > > > > > > The idea behind those questions is to find out where > > the e-mail got lost for 'Ady <ady-sf AT hotmail DOT com>' > > > > > > Additional information of the "lost" e-mail > > Message-ID: <1419193292.37517.YahooMailBasic at web161706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > > > > Received: from terminus.zytor.com (terminus.zytor.com [IPv6:2001:1868:205::10]) > > by gpm.stappers.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80F313040F7 > > for <stappers at stappers.nl>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:43:35 +0100 (CET) > > Received: from terminus.zytor.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) > > by terminus.zytor.com (8.14.8/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sBLKLk6j024306; > > Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:22:37 -0800 > > Received: from nm5-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com > > (nm5-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.150]) > > by terminus.zytor.com (8.14.8/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sBLKLcnR024278 > > for <syslinux at zytor.com>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:21:43 -0800 > > > > > > Addtional information: > > On 2014-12-30 got I as moderator of this ML bounce notification > with text as > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > <***@lnds.dk> > (reason: 550 5.7.1 The messages violates the DMARC policy of yahoo.com (83c3fcea-9015-11e4-95e4-b82a72d0454d)) > <***@xs4all.nl> > (reason: 550 5.7.1 DMARC failure for domain yahoo.com, policy reject) > <***@yahoo.co.id> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <***@yahoo.co.in> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <***@yahoo.co.kr> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <**0 at yahoo.co.uk> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <**1 at yahoo.co.uk> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <**0 at yahoo.de> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <**1 at yahoo.de> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <**0 at yahoo.fr> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > > > > For those who have the power to change it: Please do! > > > > Groeten > Geert Stappers > -- > Leven en laten leven > _______________________________________________ > Syslinux mailing list > Submissions to Syslinux at zytor.com > Unsubscribe or set options at: > http://www.zytor.com/mailman/listinfo/syslinux >Thank you Geert for taking a look at this. FWIW, I have seen the same issue (seeing a new email in the Syslinux Mailing List public archives but not being received in my inbox) back in August 2014. Coincidentally (or not), the original sender was also using yahoo. I don't know whether there is something that we, (potential) recipients, can do so to improve this situation for the future. I also don't know whether this issue is happening to any other subscribers, or to subscribers using a particular provider, or... Thank you, Ady.
On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Geert Stappers <stappers at stappers.nl> wrote:> On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 05:07:04PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote: >> On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 11:06:58AM +0200, Ady wrote: >> > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:21:32PM -0800, Patrick Masotta wrote: >> > > > [ ... Failed to build gnu-efi. ... ] >> > >> > For some reason I have not received the original email from Patrick >> > Masotta in my inbox, so I am using the first reply sent by Geert in >> > order to actually reply to the OP... >> >> >> What is visible in the log files of the mail server >> of the Syslinux mailinglist? >> >> Could the mailinglist mail server deliver to the hotmail mail server >> that Ady is using? >> >> >> The idea behind those questions is to find out where >> the e-mail got lost for 'Ady <ady-sf AT hotmail DOT com>' >> >> >> Additional information of the "lost" e-mail >> Message-ID: <1419193292.37517.YahooMailBasic at web161706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >> >> Received: from terminus.zytor.com (terminus.zytor.com [IPv6:2001:1868:205::10]) >> by gpm.stappers.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80F313040F7 >> for <stappers at stappers.nl>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:43:35 +0100 (CET) >> Received: from terminus.zytor.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) >> by terminus.zytor.com (8.14.8/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sBLKLk6j024306; >> Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:22:37 -0800 >> Received: from nm5-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com >> (nm5-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.150]) >> by terminus.zytor.com (8.14.8/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sBLKLcnR024278 >> for <syslinux at zytor.com>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:21:43 -0800 >> >> > > Addtional information: > > On 2014-12-30 got I as moderator of this ML bounce notification > with text as > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > <***@lnds.dk> > (reason: 550 5.7.1 The messages violates the DMARC policy of yahoo.com (83c3fcea-9015-11e4-95e4-b82a72d0454d)) > <***@xs4all.nl> > (reason: 550 5.7.1 DMARC failure for domain yahoo.com, policy reject) > <***@yahoo.co.id> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <***@yahoo.co.in> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <***@yahoo.co.kr> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <**0 at yahoo.co.uk> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <**1 at yahoo.co.uk> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <**0 at yahoo.de> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <**1 at yahoo.de> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > <**0 at yahoo.fr> > (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) > > > > For those who have the power to change it: Please do!Reading over it, a simple TXT record for SPF might suffice: v=spf1 +mx ~all My presumption is that Yahoo! spam policy now rates neutral responses as spam and rejects (instead of rating them neutral and delivering to a user's spam/junk mail folder). In my opinion, it's a llittle absurd for Yahoo! to take this approach but I also recognize that times are evolving and it's a reactive security measure to a historically insecure system. -- -Gene
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Gene Cumm <gene.cumm at gmail.com> wrote:> On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Geert Stappers <stappers at stappers.nl> wrote: >> On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 05:07:04PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote: >>> On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 11:06:58AM +0200, Ady wrote: >>> > > On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:21:32PM -0800, Patrick Masotta wrote: >>> > > > [ ... Failed to build gnu-efi. ... ] >>> > >>> > For some reason I have not received the original email from Patrick >>> > Masotta in my inbox, so I am using the first reply sent by Geert in >>> > order to actually reply to the OP... >>> >>> >>> What is visible in the log files of the mail server >>> of the Syslinux mailinglist? >>> >>> Could the mailinglist mail server deliver to the hotmail mail server >>> that Ady is using? >>> >>> >>> The idea behind those questions is to find out where >>> the e-mail got lost for 'Ady <ady-sf AT hotmail DOT com>' >>> >>> >>> Additional information of the "lost" e-mail >>> Message-ID: <1419193292.37517.YahooMailBasic at web161706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >>> >>> Received: from terminus.zytor.com (terminus.zytor.com [IPv6:2001:1868:205::10]) >>> by gpm.stappers.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80F313040F7 >>> for <stappers at stappers.nl>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:43:35 +0100 (CET) >>> Received: from terminus.zytor.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) >>> by terminus.zytor.com (8.14.8/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sBLKLk6j024306; >>> Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:22:37 -0800 >>> Received: from nm5-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com >>> (nm5-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.150]) >>> by terminus.zytor.com (8.14.8/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sBLKLcnR024278 >>> for <syslinux at zytor.com>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:21:43 -0800 >>> >>> >> >> Addtional information: >> >> On 2014-12-30 got I as moderator of this ML bounce notification >> with text as >> >> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >> <***@lnds.dk> >> (reason: 550 5.7.1 The messages violates the DMARC policy of yahoo.com (83c3fcea-9015-11e4-95e4-b82a72d0454d)) >> <***@xs4all.nl> >> (reason: 550 5.7.1 DMARC failure for domain yahoo.com, policy reject) >> <***@yahoo.co.id> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <***@yahoo.co.in> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <***@yahoo.co.kr> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <**0 at yahoo.co.uk> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <**1 at yahoo.co.uk> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <**0 at yahoo.de> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <**1 at yahoo.de> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <**0 at yahoo.fr> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> >> >> >> For those who have the power to change it: Please do! > > Reading over it, a simple TXT record for SPF might suffice: > > v=spf1 +mx ~all > > My presumption is that Yahoo! spam policy now rates neutral responses > as spam and rejects (instead of rating them neutral and delivering to > a user's spam/junk mail folder). In my opinion, it's a llittle absurd > for Yahoo! to take this approach but I also recognize that times are > evolving and it's a reactive security measure to a historically > insecure system. > > -- > -GeneAlternatively, rewrite the mailing list's config to move the sender to the "Reply-To:" and set "From:" as syslinux at zytor.com (which feels uglier and a little more work). I'm not sure about others but I personally use the "From:" field for searching instead of doing a full text search if I want a message _from_ a certain person. Geert, do you get any reject messages from yahoo.com addresses or is it only domains in Europe? For more fun, I see a TXT record for SPF on yahoo.com but not one on yahoo.de or yahoo.co.uk. -- -Gene
On 01/03/2015 08:56 AM, Gene Cumm wrote:> On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Geert Stappers <stappers at stappers.nl> wrote: >> On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 05:07:04PM +0100, Geert Stappers wrote: >>> On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 11:06:58AM +0200, Ady wrote: >>>>> On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:21:32PM -0800, Patrick Masotta wrote: >>>>>> [ ... Failed to build gnu-efi. ... ] >>>> >>>> For some reason I have not received the original email from Patrick >>>> Masotta in my inbox, so I am using the first reply sent by Geert in >>>> order to actually reply to the OP... >>> >>> >>> What is visible in the log files of the mail server >>> of the Syslinux mailinglist? >>> >>> Could the mailinglist mail server deliver to the hotmail mail server >>> that Ady is using? >>> >>> >>> The idea behind those questions is to find out where >>> the e-mail got lost for 'Ady <ady-sf AT hotmail DOT com>' >>> >>> >>> Additional information of the "lost" e-mail >>> Message-ID: <1419193292.37517.YahooMailBasic at web161706.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >>> >>> Received: from terminus.zytor.com (terminus.zytor.com [IPv6:2001:1868:205::10]) >>> by gpm.stappers.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80F313040F7 >>> for <stappers at stappers.nl>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:43:35 +0100 (CET) >>> Received: from terminus.zytor.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) >>> by terminus.zytor.com (8.14.8/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sBLKLk6j024306; >>> Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:22:37 -0800 >>> Received: from nm5-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com >>> (nm5-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [98.139.213.150]) >>> by terminus.zytor.com (8.14.8/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sBLKLcnR024278 >>> for <syslinux at zytor.com>; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 12:21:43 -0800 >>> >>> >> >> Addtional information: >> >> On 2014-12-30 got I as moderator of this ML bounce notification >> with text as >> >> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >> <***@lnds.dk> >> (reason: 550 5.7.1 The messages violates the DMARC policy of yahoo.com (83c3fcea-9015-11e4-95e4-b82a72d0454d)) >> <***@xs4all.nl> >> (reason: 550 5.7.1 DMARC failure for domain yahoo.com, policy reject) >> <***@yahoo.co.id> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <***@yahoo.co.in> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <***@yahoo.co.kr> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <**0 at yahoo.co.uk> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <**1 at yahoo.co.uk> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <**0 at yahoo.de> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <**1 at yahoo.de> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> <**0 at yahoo.fr> >> (reason: 554 5.7.9 Message not accepted for policy reasons. See http://postmaster.yahoo.com/errors/postmaster-28.html) >> >> >> >> For those who have the power to change it: Please do! > > Reading over it, a simple TXT record for SPF might suffice: > > v=spf1 +mx ~all > > My presumption is that Yahoo! spam policy now rates neutral responses > as spam and rejects (instead of rating them neutral and delivering to > a user's spam/junk mail folder). In my opinion, it's a llittle absurd > for Yahoo! to take this approach but I also recognize that times are > evolving and it's a reactive security measure to a historically > insecure system. >The problem isn't one that the mailing list operator can fix "well", and it's mainly based on the fact that DMARC was designed in a vacuum of anyone who actually understands mailing lists and/or anyone who uses or cares about them. http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=17891458 The summary here is that the DNSKEY that Yahoo signs the message with (and has nothing to do with SPF as was suggested above) is invalidated by the mailing list's need to comply with legalities of needing a footer with unsubscribe information, etc. By altering the message (as sent by yahoo) the checksum no longer matches and when a compliant receiver gets it, it looks at Yahoo's DMARC policy and by spec rejects the message entirely. Thus Hotmail throwing e-mails from Yahoo in the trash. SPF / DNS keys / DMARC are more problem than fix at this point, and I'd actually recommend not enabling any of them. The best answer is to stop using a mail provider (yahoo, aol, etc) that has such spectacularly bad DMARC rules if you are going to do things on mailing lists. - John 'Warthog9' Hawley