Syslinux - Nov 2013 - Sysinux 6 will not boot ISOs on BIOS (i.e. pre-UEFI) systems

-- Re-sent as original may be stuck at awaiting "authorisation"
(originally
sent before I joined the mailing list)

Hi All,

It is impossible to boot Linux-based ISOs that use Syslinux 6.02 via CD or
DVD on older - non-UEFI - systems. Any attempt to do so will result in the
following error message: ISOLINUX 6.02 ETCDisolinux: Disk error 01, AX 4279,
drive FE

It is still possible to boot / install via USB data-stick, and in a Virtual
Machine. Where using a newer PC with UEFI, even in Legacy mode (and with
the UEFI partition completely removed), ISOs using Syslinux 6.02 will still
go through the UEFI menu.

I also noticed that (at least some) OSs not using syslinux 6.02 won't
recognise ISOs that do. For example, the file managers of Mint 13, Windows
7, and Windows 8 all wrongly "see" blank discs).

As a consequence, I am aware that the Manjaro Linux team have reverted to
using syslinux 4 for their ISOs.

This is certainly not an issue with corrupted downloads, burning, or dodgy
computer disc-drives.

Best Wishes,
Carl Duff

Hi,

Carl Duff wrote:
> (at least some) OSs not using syslinux 6.02 won't
> recognise ISOs that do. For example, the file managers of Mint 13, Windows
> 7, and Windows 8 all wrongly "see" blank discs).
> [...]
> This is certainly not an issue with corrupted downloads, burning, or dodgy
> computer disc-drives.
You mean real CD or DVD with operating systems on real iron ?
If such systems really report blank media, and not unknown
data on the media, then it should be a media-drive issue.

A bad ISO image properly burned should at least mark the
medium as used and (rawly) readable.

Can you point me to an ISO image which shows the problems ?
I have an AMD 64 bit system with BIOS-only.
(A small image would be convenient, of course.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Thanks for the reply. Yes, real CDs / DVDs being run on systems with an
existing OS.

The latest Arch ISO should get you the results I mentioned:
https://www.archlinux.org/download/

The Manjaro Project Lead, Phil Muller, had the same results (he doesn't
have any UEFI systems).

Yes, interesting about the FMs not showing anything on the CDs. Same ISOs
did show up on my own system. This may be a separate issue. though.

Carl


On 23 November 2013 13:10, Thomas Schmitt <scdbackup at gmx.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Carl Duff wrote:
> > (at least some) OSs not using syslinux 6.02 won't
> > recognise ISOs that do. For example, the file managers of Mint 13,
> Windows
> > 7, and Windows 8 all wrongly "see" blank discs).
> > [...]
> > This is certainly not an issue with corrupted downloads, burning, or
> dodgy
> > computer disc-drives.
>
> You mean real CD or DVD with operating systems on real iron ?
> If such systems really report blank media, and not unknown
> data on the media, then it should be a media-drive issue.
>
> A bad ISO image properly burned should at least mark the
> medium as used and (rawly) readable.
>
> Can you point me to an ISO image which shows the problems ?
> I have an AMD 64 bit system with BIOS-only.
> (A small image would be convenient, of course.)
>
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas
>
>

> It is impossible to boot Linux-based ISOs that use Syslinux 6.02 via CD or
> DVD on older - non-UEFI - systems. Any attempt to do so will result in the
> following error message: ISOLINUX 6.02 ETCDisolinux: Disk error 01, AX >
4279, drive FE
 
Is this happening on "every" system? Or are we talking about specific 
models or with specific characteristics? Is this behavior seen by any 
chance in a Dell? Or only in some specific brand?

I am assuming that all c32 files where updated too, and that at least 
ldlinux.c32 is included in the ISO together in the same location as 
isolinux.bin, right?

Are you testing with Syslinux 6.02 from kernel.org? Or is this from 
latest Arch Linux [testing]?
 
> 
> It is still possible to boot / install via USB data-stick, and in a Virtual
> Machine. Where using a newer PC with UEFI, even in Legacy mode (and with
> the UEFI partition completely removed), ISOs using Syslinux 6.02 will still
> go through the UEFI menu.
> 
> I also noticed that (at least some) OSs not using syslinux 6.02 won't
> recognise ISOs that do. For example, the file managers of Mint 13, Windows
> 7, and Windows 8 all wrongly "see" blank discs).
 
Are you sure that seeing blank discs is related to the version of 
Syslinux? That behavior seems more related to optical media, the 
specific optical drive, the burning software, or the tool to build 
the ISO image, or...

I wonder if perhaps there is some issue regarding isohibrid.

Regarding file / archive managers reading ISO files, I don't see how 
it could be related to the version of Syslinux, but perhaps I am 
missing something here.

Regards,
Ady.

It occured with every BIOS system I tested on (none of them Dell):

1. HP G62 laptop (i3)
2. Samsung  RV520 (i3)

Don't know what system Philip Muller uses; have copied him in as he has far
more technical knowledge than I do. Syslinux tested from Arch and Manjaro
(an Arch derivative). Basically found then when creating latest ISO images.

I may be missing something as well about the FMs. Just didn't have this
problem with Syslinux 4...

Carl




On 23 November 2013 13:49, Ady <ady-sf at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > It is impossible to boot Linux-based ISOs that use Syslinux 6.02 via
CD
> or
> > DVD on older - non-UEFI - systems. Any attempt to do so will result in
> the
> > following error message: ISOLINUX 6.02 ETCDisolinux: Disk error 01, AX
> > 4279, drive FE
>
> Is this happening on "every" system? Or are we talking about
specific
> models or with specific characteristics? Is this behavior seen by any
> chance in a Dell? Or only in some specific brand?
>
> I am assuming that all c32 files where updated too, and that at least
> ldlinux.c32 is included in the ISO together in the same location as
> isolinux.bin, right?
>
> Are you testing with Syslinux 6.02 from kernel.org? Or is this from
> latest Arch Linux [testing]?
>
> >
> > It is still possible to boot / install via USB data-stick, and in a
> Virtual
> > Machine. Where using a newer PC with UEFI, even in Legacy mode (and
with
> > the UEFI partition completely removed), ISOs using Syslinux 6.02 will
> still
> > go through the UEFI menu.
> >
> > I also noticed that (at least some) OSs not using syslinux 6.02
won't
> > recognise ISOs that do. For example, the file managers of Mint 13,
> Windows
> > 7, and Windows 8 all wrongly "see" blank discs).
>
> Are you sure that seeing blank discs is related to the version of
> Syslinux? That behavior seems more related to optical media, the
> specific optical drive, the burning software, or the tool to build
> the ISO image, or...
>
> I wonder if perhaps there is some issue regarding isohibrid.
>
> Regarding file / archive managers reading ISO files, I don't see how
> it could be related to the version of Syslinux, but perhaps I am
> missing something here.
>
> Regards,
> Ady.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syslinux mailing list
> Submissions to Syslinux at zytor.com
> Unsubscribe or set options at:
> http://www.zytor.com/mailman/listinfo/syslinux
> Please do not send private replies to mailing list traffic.
>
>

Hi,

well, my oldish non-UEFI system boots by 6.02 from CD-RW:
  CPU:  AMD Athlon II X4 620 Quad-Core
  Mainboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2H AM2 GLAN RAID.
  Award BIOS v6.00 PC
There must be some other ingredients needed for failure.

> https://www.archlinux.org/download/
This leads me to e.g.
 
http://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/archlinux/iso/2013.11.01/archlinux-2013.11.01-dual.iso

Put on CD-RW the image boots for me to a menu, where i select
"x86_64". Then a kernel comes up with normal messages and
finally i get a shell prompt for root.

"ISOLINUX 6.02 ETCD" shows up swiftly before i get the menu.


-------------------------------------------------------------
Details about the image:

It bears El Torito with BIOS boot image
  /isolinux/isolinux.bin
and EFI boot image
  /EFI/archiso/efiboot.img

MBR marks the whole image as partition 1 and the EFI boot image
as partition 2 (i.e. inside partition 1).
There is also a GPT.

I brought it onto CD-RW by:
  $ xorriso -as cdrecord \
        -v dev=/dev/sr2 blank=as_needed \
        archlinux-2013.11.01-dual.iso

The CD-RW is mountable and all file content is readable without
i/o errors. MD5 matches 2013.11.01/md5sums.txt 
  $ dd if=/dev/sr2 bs=2048 count=264192 | md5sum
  2535d1308fcc4f12420433dba039b3b6

  $ strings /mnt/isolinux/isolinux.bin | grep ISOLINUX
  ISOLINUX 6.02  

-------------------------------------------------------------

Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Hi,

Ady wrote:
> seeing blank discs [...] seems more related to optical media,
I would assume so, too.
If there is a system where the problem shows up, and an
operator who is willing to do some userland experiments,
then we can explore this down to the level of SCSI commands.
E.g. by
  xorriso -scsi_log on -indev /dev/sr0 -toc | tee -i lengthy.log

(The hope for new SCSI pitfalls lured me into this thread.)

> I wonder if perhaps there is some issue regarding isohibrid.
I would not assume so. The MBR aspect should be ignored by
BIOS when it gets presented on CD or DVD.

Nevertheless, one may erase the MBR and (main) GPT stuff by:

  dd if=/dev/zero bs=32768 count=1 conv=notrunc \
     of=archlinux-2013.11.01-dual.iso

Option conv=notrunc is important. It saves the rest of the image.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

On 11/23/2013 09:35 AM, Carl Duff wrote:
> -- Re-sent as original may be stuck at awaiting "authorisation"
(originally
> sent before I joined the mailing list)
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> It is impossible to boot Linux-based ISOs that use Syslinux 6.02 via CD or
> DVD on older - non-UEFI - systems. Any attempt to do so will result in the
> following error message: ISOLINUX 6.02 ETCDisolinux: Disk error 01, AX >
4279, drive FE
> 
> It is still possible to boot / install via USB data-stick, and in a Virtual
> Machine. Where using a newer PC with UEFI, even in Legacy mode (and with
> the UEFI partition completely removed), ISOs using Syslinux 6.02 will still
> go through the UEFI menu.
> 
> I also noticed that (at least some) OSs not using syslinux 6.02 won't
> recognise ISOs that do. For example, the file managers of Mint 13, Windows
> 7, and Windows 8 all wrongly "see" blank discs).
> 
> As a consequence, I am aware that the Manjaro Linux team have reverted to
> using syslinux 4 for their ISOs.
> 
> This is certainly not an issue with corrupted downloads, burning, or dodgy
> computer disc-drives.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> Carl Duff
> _______________________________________________
> Syslinux mailing list
> Submissions to Syslinux at zytor.com
> Unsubscribe or set options at:
> http://www.zytor.com/mailman/listinfo/syslinux
> Please do not send private replies to mailing list traffic.
> 
> 
Hello guys,

I am the maintainer of archiso (live-iso creator for Arch Linux).

Originally, I was not able to reproduce the issue on my machine. But now
I can do. I made an ISO image that fails to boot.

The weird thing is: that under the same conditions, trying to
simplify/reduce the iso, doing some tests (ie, removing isohybrid-mbr,
eltorito-alt-boot for EFI, etc..) I can not recreate the bad ISO again!

So I have two ISO images with same contents, same versions, same version
of program to generate it, but one works and other does not work!.

Note that the image that does not work on my real hardware works fine
under qemu and VirtualBox! (both using ISO and real dvd-rw device).

When trying to boot the bad iso, I can see the isolinux welcome message
but not complete "ISOLINUX 6.02 ETCD", then reboot inmediatelly.


Comparing the output of dumpet the only relevant diference is:
< 2013.11.23 = BAD
> 2013.11.24 = OK
$ diff <(dumpet -i archlinux-2013.11.23-dual.iso) <(dumpet -i
archlinux-2013.11.24-dual.iso)
13c13
<       Load LBA: 136026 (0x0002135a)
---
>       Load LBA: 22792 (0x00005908)
25c25
<       Load LBA: 136154 (0x000213da)
---
>       Load LBA: 23301 (0x00005b05)
Maybe too high?

Here is the command that mkarchiso uses for make the iso [#1]

https://projects.archlinux.org/archiso.git/tree/archiso/mkarchiso#n373


-------------------------------------------------------------------

My machine is:

Motherboard: Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe (Firmware: 1603)
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ [ADA5200IAA6CS]
RAM: 4 x 1GB OCZ DDR2 800MHz Platinum Rev 2 (4-4-4-15) [OCZ2P800R21G]
Optical Drive: LG DVD-RW SATA Dual Layer (Fimware IL00) [GH20NS15]

-------------------------------------------------------------------

$ dumpet -i archlinux-2013.11.24-dual.iso
Validation Entry:
        Header Indicator: 0x01 (Validation Entry)
        PlatformId: 0x00 (80x86)
        ID: ""
        Checksum: 0x55aa
        Key bytes: 0x55aa
Boot Catalog Default Entry:
        Entry is bootable
        Boot Media emulation type: no emulation
        Media load segment: 0x0 (0000:7c00)
        System type: 0 (0x00)
        Load Sectors: 4 (0x0004)
        Load LBA: 22792 (0x00005908)
Section Header Entry:
        Header Indicator: 0x91 (Final Section Header Entry)
        PlatformId: 0xef (EFI)
        Section Entries: 1
        ID: ""
Boot Catalog Section Entry:
        Entry is bootable
        Boot Media emulation type: no emulation
        Media load address: 0 (0x0000)
        System type: 0 (0x00)
        Load Sectors: 63488 (0xf800)
        Load LBA: 23301 (0x00005b05)

$ dumpet -i archlinux-2013.10.03-dual.iso
Validation Entry:
        Header Indicator: 0x01 (Validation Entry)
        PlatformId: 0x00 (80x86)
        ID: ""
        Checksum: 0x55aa
        Key bytes: 0x55aa
Boot Catalog Default Entry:
        Entry is bootable
        Boot Media emulation type: no emulation
        Media load segment: 0x0 (0000:7c00)
        System type: 0 (0x00)
        Load Sectors: 4 (0x0004)
        Load LBA: 23079 (0x00005a27)
Section Header Entry:
        Header Indicator: 0x91 (Final Section Header Entry)
        PlatformId: 0xef (EFI)
        Section Entries: 1
        ID: ""
Boot Catalog Section Entry:
        Entry is bootable
        Boot Media emulation type: no emulation
        Media load address: 0 (0x0000)
        System type: 0 (0x00)
        Load Sectors: 63488 (0xf800)
        Load LBA: 23185 (0x00005a91)


-- 
Gerardo Exequiel Pozzi
\cos^2\alpha + \sin^2\alpha = 1

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Hi,
> I am the maintainer of archiso (live-iso creator for Arch Linux).
Thank you, too, for flying xorriso. :)

> So I have two ISO images with same contents, same versions, same version
> of program to generate it, but one works and other does not work!.
So the size of the boot image alone cannot be the problem.

>  < 2013.11.23 = BAD
>  > 2013.11.24 = OK
>  <       Load LBA: 136026 (0x0002135a)
>  ---
>  >       Load LBA: 22792 (0x00005908)
>  Maybe too high?
A high boot image address once was the reason for a boot
failure of Debian ia64. (Itanium, not x86_64. EFI, not BIOS.)

You may influence the address of the boot image by
   --sort-weight 2 /isolinux/isolinux.bin
or
   --sort-weight -1 /isolinux/isolinux.bin

The former pushes it to a low address, the latter to a high one.

For medium addresses you'd have to assign higher sort weights
to some data files or directory trees, and lower weights to some
others. So that the boot image sits in the middle.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

On 11/24/2013 09:23 PM, Gerardo Exequiel Pozzi wrote:
> On 11/23/2013 09:35 AM, Carl Duff wrote:
>> -- Re-sent as original may be stuck at awaiting
"authorisation" (originally
>> sent before I joined the mailing list)
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> It is impossible to boot Linux-based ISOs that use Syslinux 6.02 via CD
or
>> DVD on older - non-UEFI - systems. Any attempt to do so will result in
the
>> following error message: ISOLINUX 6.02 ETCDisolinux: Disk error 01, AX
>> 4279, drive FE
>>
>> It is still possible to boot / install via USB data-stick, and in a
Virtual
>> Machine. Where using a newer PC with UEFI, even in Legacy mode (and
with
>> the UEFI partition completely removed), ISOs using Syslinux 6.02 will
still
>> go through the UEFI menu.
>>
>> I also noticed that (at least some) OSs not using syslinux 6.02
won't
>> recognise ISOs that do. For example, the file managers of Mint 13,
Windows
>> 7, and Windows 8 all wrongly "see" blank discs).
>>
>> As a consequence, I am aware that the Manjaro Linux team have reverted
to
>> using syslinux 4 for their ISOs.
>>
>> This is certainly not an issue with corrupted downloads, burning, or
dodgy
>> computer disc-drives.
>>
>> Best Wishes,
>> Carl Duff
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syslinux mailing list
>> Submissions to Syslinux at zytor.com
>> Unsubscribe or set options at:
>> http://www.zytor.com/mailman/listinfo/syslinux
>> Please do not send private replies to mailing list traffic.
>>
>>
> 
> Hello guys,
> 
> I am the maintainer of archiso (live-iso creator for Arch Linux).
> 
> Originally, I was not able to reproduce the issue on my machine. But now
> I can do. I made an ISO image that fails to boot.
> 
> The weird thing is: that under the same conditions, trying to
> simplify/reduce the iso, doing some tests (ie, removing isohybrid-mbr,
> eltorito-alt-boot for EFI, etc..) I can not recreate the bad ISO again!
> 
> So I have two ISO images with same contents, same versions, same version
> of program to generate it, but one works and other does not work!.
> 
> Note that the image that does not work on my real hardware works fine
> under qemu and VirtualBox! (both using ISO and real dvd-rw device).
> 
> When trying to boot the bad iso, I can see the isolinux welcome message
> but not complete "ISOLINUX 6.02 ETCD", then reboot inmediatelly.
> 
> 
> Comparing the output of dumpet the only relevant diference is:
> < 2013.11.23 = BAD
>> 2013.11.24 = OK
> 
> $ diff <(dumpet -i archlinux-2013.11.23-dual.iso) <(dumpet -i
> archlinux-2013.11.24-dual.iso)
> 13c13
> <       Load LBA: 136026 (0x0002135a)
> ---
>>       Load LBA: 22792 (0x00005908)
> 25c25
> <       Load LBA: 136154 (0x000213da)
> ---
>>       Load LBA: 23301 (0x00005b05)
> 
> Maybe too high?
> 
> Here is the command that mkarchiso uses for make the iso [#1]
> 
> https://projects.archlinux.org/archiso.git/tree/archiso/mkarchiso#n373
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> My machine is:
> 
> Motherboard: Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe (Firmware: 1603)
> CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ [ADA5200IAA6CS]
> RAM: 4 x 1GB OCZ DDR2 800MHz Platinum Rev 2 (4-4-4-15) [OCZ2P800R21G]
> Optical Drive: LG DVD-RW SATA Dual Layer (Fimware IL00) [GH20NS15]
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> $ dumpet -i archlinux-2013.11.24-dual.iso
> Validation Entry:
>         Header Indicator: 0x01 (Validation Entry)
>         PlatformId: 0x00 (80x86)
>         ID: ""
>         Checksum: 0x55aa
>         Key bytes: 0x55aa
> Boot Catalog Default Entry:
>         Entry is bootable
>         Boot Media emulation type: no emulation
>         Media load segment: 0x0 (0000:7c00)
>         System type: 0 (0x00)
>         Load Sectors: 4 (0x0004)
>         Load LBA: 22792 (0x00005908)
> Section Header Entry:
>         Header Indicator: 0x91 (Final Section Header Entry)
>         PlatformId: 0xef (EFI)
>         Section Entries: 1
>         ID: ""
> Boot Catalog Section Entry:
>         Entry is bootable
>         Boot Media emulation type: no emulation
>         Media load address: 0 (0x0000)
>         System type: 0 (0x00)
>         Load Sectors: 63488 (0xf800)
>         Load LBA: 23301 (0x00005b05)
> 
> $ dumpet -i archlinux-2013.10.03-dual.iso
> Validation Entry:
>         Header Indicator: 0x01 (Validation Entry)
>         PlatformId: 0x00 (80x86)
>         ID: ""
>         Checksum: 0x55aa
>         Key bytes: 0x55aa
> Boot Catalog Default Entry:
>         Entry is bootable
>         Boot Media emulation type: no emulation
>         Media load segment: 0x0 (0000:7c00)
>         System type: 0 (0x00)
>         Load Sectors: 4 (0x0004)
>         Load LBA: 23079 (0x00005a27)
> Section Header Entry:
>         Header Indicator: 0x91 (Final Section Header Entry)
>         PlatformId: 0xef (EFI)
>         Section Entries: 1
>         ID: ""
> Boot Catalog Section Entry:
>         Entry is bootable
>         Boot Media emulation type: no emulation
>         Media load address: 0 (0x0000)
>         System type: 0 (0x00)
>         Load Sectors: 63488 (0xf800)
>         Load LBA: 23185 (0x00005a91)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Syslinux mailing list
> Submissions to Syslinux at zytor.com
> Unsubscribe or set options at:
> http://www.zytor.com/mailman/listinfo/syslinux
> Please do not send private replies to mailing list traffic.
> 
Good I catched!

The problem is the load LBA too high.

How to reproduce (minimal case):

mkdir -p /tmp/test/isolinux
cp /usr/lib/syslinux/bios/isolinux.bin /tmp/test/isolinux
truncate -s 200M /tmp/test/coco
xorriso -as mkisofs \
        -eltorito-boot isolinux/isolinux.bin \
        -eltorito-catalog isolinux/boot.cat \
        -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table \
        --sort-weight -1 isolinux/isolinux.bin \
        --sort-weight +1 coco \
        -output "/tmp/test.iso" \
        "/tmp/test/"

I added --sort-weight, to force the location of isolinux.bin in a high
LBA address, otherwise in a low addres works fine (just swap +1/-1).

Note that if using isolinux.bin from syslinux-4.07 works fine in both
cases (under high LBA addreses and low).

And yes, again, this only fails on my real hardware, under Qemu and
VirtualBox works fine.





-- 
Gerardo Exequiel Pozzi
\cos^2\alpha + \sin^2\alpha = 1

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