With all due respect to you Tom, I have been on this list for the last 2.5 years, and i have seen you giving support thru tough times, rough times, my memomory is still good, i can recall those though times... When your mom or a relative was sick, and u had to leave for a while When u were stress out, and needed rest, u said you''ll be gone for a while, and but before we knew it you were back.. I don''t know how to understand your message, when you say happy supporting folks...etc...etc. but please correct my thaughts if i''m wrong. for me, i seeing this, as you got upset because of statements made, and you said to hell with it (pls correct me if i''m wrong) It''s hard to see u varnished off this list, your expertize is still needed on the list, Someone posted a brilliant idea, i think it was Franchisca, where u can remain on this list, but create a list for newbies where all the newbies would be posting and u remain on this list. I''m not a developer, and don''t thihk i should be in that list, i''m also not a newbie to shorewall, but still not a pro, so i do monitor this list every day, to learn from others, lots of my issues i solved, was base on other questions with out even posting a note. Sometimes i do understand that the newbies questions can be a little agreevating, hell yes, i was a user of Smootwall Firewal before using shorewall, reason i left that list and the application, was because the founder/moderator, had no flipping manners, use to insult use obscene languages at anyone that posted the most stupid question, and that i can''t tolerate, i''m in the pc field for a small little 15 years, and of that i''m in the linux world for 3 years, and still learning, my expertise from microsoft, is on very high level, but i do see those newbies to pc''s come asking me wako questions, which kills the hell out of me, but i stil must accept that it''s not them fault.. One thing i respected of you, is that u give you apologies when u go on the wrong side.. Your support is prompt, there is hardly a question that goes un-answered... When u were gone, about a year or so a-back, the folks here did great job at holding the fort, but i think you are still needed here. So far i think franchisca''s idea about that newbie list is great, create that, let the others experiment their skills there, hell, i might be even glad to copy/paste some answers over, even though i might not know much about shorewall, but atleast check the faq''s for those that are scared, and copy/paste for them but it''s hard to see a good man leave permanantly.. so think about it..... and tom, no offence meant, \ regards reggie> Hello, > > Hardly .. I put my money where my mouth is .. > > Tom is a busy person .. And we need to support this project more .. > > I am excited .. Because through teaching comes knowledge .. and Tom is my > Zen Master .. > > Francesca > At 09:08 PM 12/2/2003, you wrote: > >Oh no, you''ve scared Tom away! > >Well heck, i''ll put in my two bits... > > "No Problems Only Solutions" > Francesca C. Smith > Lady Linux Internet Services > fsmith@ladylinux.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Shorewall-users mailing list > Post: Shorewall-users@lists.shorewall.net > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: https://lists.shorewall.net/mailman/listinfo/shorewall-users > Support: http://www.shorewall.net/support.htm > FAQ: http://www.shorewall.net/FAQ.htm----------------------------------------------------------- ~~ The Science of Doing it Right ~~ -----------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Reginald Richardson wrote:> With all due respect to you Tom, > > > I don''t know how to understand your message, when you say happy > supporting folks...etc...etc. but please correct my thaughts if i''m > wrong. for me, i seeing this, as you got upset because of statements > made, and you said to hell with it (pls correct me if i''m wrong) >It means that Shorewall is at a point where the project either has to grow or it will die because it has reached the maximum size where one person can do everything and still maintain his/her sanity. Community-based support is one of the ways that will allow the project to grow.> It''s hard to see u varnished off this list, your expertize is still needed on the list,Let''s see how it goes.> Someone posted a brilliant idea, i think it was Franchisca, where u can > remain on this list, but create a list for newbies where all the newbies > would be posting and u remain on this list. >I''ll do that if I think it''s necessary. I''m not particularly internested in having another mailing list to administer.> I''m not a developer, and don''t thihk i should be in that list, i''m also > not a newbie to shorewall, but still not a pro, so i do monitor this > list every day, to learn from others, lots of my issues i solved, was > base on other questions with out even posting a note. >It is VERY rare that a truly new question is posted on the list. Take this morning''s crop: a) We have a guy reporting that modules won''t load on Mandrake. I posted a message to that effect last week and there''s a large essay on the topic at the top of http://www.shorewall.net/FTP.html. b) We have another person who can''t get Squid running as a transparent proxy in his local zone and who has "discovered" that there''s a way to do it without policy routing. The archives are full of people whining that the miracle that he has discovered makes all requests to the proxy look like they came from the firewall. Those prior posters were able to make it work without resorting to running iptables directly (FAQ 2 contains most of what''s needed). c) We have a guy who is trying to make RealPlayer work but who hasn''t yet discovered that RealPlayer can be configured to use specific UDP ports. While I think that''s probably a new problem, if it takes my involvement to solve it then the project is already doomed.> > and tom, no offence meant, \ >None taken. -Tom -- Tom Eastep \ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ teastep@shorewall.net
If you are looking for community support I do think that there are many people that would like to help. I really don''t understand why you can''t have a webpage for all of this. I know you said in the past that the phpbb2 thing did''nt work cause of ppl posting configs and such, however there are many options about allowing what ppl post, and lenth of posts, etc. This way you can have 2-3 forum mods that handle the look, in this FAQ , for that answer 1st. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Eastep [mailto:teastep@shorewall.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 10:17 AM To: Shorewall Users Subject: Re: [Shorewall-users] Re: Shorewall For Dummies On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Reginald Richardson wrote:> With all due respect to you Tom, > > > I don''t know how to understand your message, when you say happy > supporting folks...etc...etc. but please correct my thaughts if i''m > wrong. for me, i seeing this, as you got upset because of statements > made, and you said to hell with it (pls correct me if i''m wrong) >It means that Shorewall is at a point where the project either has to grow or it will die because it has reached the maximum size where one person can do everything and still maintain his/her sanity. Community-based support is one of the ways that will allow the project to grow.> It''s hard to see u varnished off this list, your expertize is still neededon the list, Let''s see how it goes.> Someone posted a brilliant idea, i think it was Franchisca, where u can > remain on this list, but create a list for newbies where all the newbies > would be posting and u remain on this list. >I''ll do that if I think it''s necessary. I''m not particularly internested in having another mailing list to administer.> I''m not a developer, and don''t thihk i should be in that list, i''m also > not a newbie to shorewall, but still not a pro, so i do monitor this > list every day, to learn from others, lots of my issues i solved, was > base on other questions with out even posting a note. >It is VERY rare that a truly new question is posted on the list. Take this morning''s crop: a) We have a guy reporting that modules won''t load on Mandrake. I posted a message to that effect last week and there''s a large essay on the topic at the top of http://www.shorewall.net/FTP.html. b) We have another person who can''t get Squid running as a transparent proxy in his local zone and who has "discovered" that there''s a way to do it without policy routing. The archives are full of people whining that the miracle that he has discovered makes all requests to the proxy look like they came from the firewall. Those prior posters were able to make it work without resorting to running iptables directly (FAQ 2 contains most of what''s needed). c) We have a guy who is trying to make RealPlayer work but who hasn''t yet discovered that RealPlayer can be configured to use specific UDP ports. While I think that''s probably a new problem, if it takes my involvement to solve it then the project is already doomed.> > and tom, no offence meant, \ >None taken. -Tom -- Tom Eastep \ Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool Shoreline, \ http://shorewall.net Washington USA \ teastep@shorewall.net _______________________________________________ Shorewall-users mailing list Post: Shorewall-users@lists.shorewall.net Subscribe/Unsubscribe: https://lists.shorewall.net/mailman/listinfo/shorewall-users Support: http://www.shorewall.net/support.htm FAQ: http://www.shorewall.net/FAQ.htm
On Wed, 2003-12-03 at 08:27, Troy Arnold wrote:> If you are looking for community support I do think that there are many > people that would like to help. I really don''t understand why you can''t > have a webpage for all of this. I know you said in the past that the phpbb2 > thing did''nt work cause of ppl posting configs and such, however there are > many options about allowing what ppl post, and lenth of posts, etc. This > way you can have 2-3 forum mods that handle the look, in this FAQ , for that > answer 1st.Troy, Web based discussion systems (phpBB, Invision, etc.) are poor at handling complex technical discussion/support. They also require a lot more admin work, and network resources to maintain than a mailing list does. Note: most web based discussion boards are working on nntp gateways. Nntp was designed for discussion, but it has always been an administration nightmare. Example: SF.net forums <-> nntp.sourceforge.net -- Mike Noyes <mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net> http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs
Mike, I guess I see your point, but I have been on so many of them guess I''m just used to using them =) Since I''ve been on the list, not very long, I have yet to see something so complex that it can''t be done on a board. Just my two cents and will drop it there. In any regard, I will help out in anyway I can. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Noyes [mailto:mhnoyes@users.sourceforge.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 11:24 AM To: ''Shorewall Users Mailing List'' Subject: RE: [Shorewall-users] Re: Shorewall For Dummies On Wed, 2003-12-03 at 08:27, Troy Arnold wrote:> If you are looking for community support I do think that there are many > people that would like to help. I really don''t understand why you can''t > have a webpage for all of this. I know you said in the past that thephpbb2> thing did''nt work cause of ppl posting configs and such, however there are > many options about allowing what ppl post, and lenth of posts, etc. This > way you can have 2-3 forum mods that handle the look, in this FAQ , forthat> answer 1st.Troy, Web based discussion systems (phpBB, Invision, etc.) are poor at handling complex technical discussion/support. They also require a lot more admin work, and network resources to maintain than a mailing list does. Note: most web based discussion boards are working on nntp gateways. Nntp was designed for discussion, but it has always been an administration nightmare. Example: SF.net forums <-> nntp.sourceforge.net -- Mike Noyes <mhnoyes at users.sourceforge.net> http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs _______________________________________________ Shorewall-users mailing list Post: Shorewall-users@lists.shorewall.net Subscribe/Unsubscribe: https://lists.shorewall.net/mailman/listinfo/shorewall-users Support: http://www.shorewall.net/support.htm FAQ: http://www.shorewall.net/FAQ.htm
> b) We have another person who can''t get Squid running as a > transparent proxy in his local zone and who has "discovered" that > there''s a way to do it without policy routing. The archives are full > of people whining that the miracle that he has discovered makes all > requests to the proxy look like they came from the firewall. Those > prior posters were able to make it work without resorting to running > iptables directly (FAQ 2 contains most of what''s needed).ok, first of all, i am sorry for spaming you with known stuff ! i was just so euphoric getting it work ! (searching the doc and the web, i have forgotten to look in the faq, which now gave me the missing peace to avoid the last iptable-thing) so if i got this conversation wright, you don''t have the time to answer dump newbie questions, i think, if you ask on the list: if someone got the time to moderate a newbie-mailinglist; there will be someone !! or maybe a wicki-page, or this phpbb2-thing but also managed by someone else ! mike -- a woman can fake an orgasm, but it takes a man to fake an entire relationship :-)