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...e SAS-style partitioning variances to obtain F statistics and p-values, and I have read relevant parts of Pinhero and Bates, but how can a specify a nested random effects model that yields p-values for both the males (tested against MS for females) and females nested within males? Thanks, Dan Bolnick Section of Integrative Biology University of Texas at Austin

...lacking access to Pinhero and Bates at the moment, what is the appropriate model structure in lmer or nlme for this model (year and region fixed, group random nested within fixed region effect, and sample nested within group? 2) How can I obtain s.e(variance) to obtain Wald's Z? Thanks! -Dan Bolnick SAMPLE REGION GROUP YEAR Y 1 IngM03BS-1 mainland Mystery 3 -23.68 2 IngM03BS02 mainland Mystery 3 -23.61 3 IngM03BS-04 mainland Mystery 3 -23.76 4 IngM02BS01 mainland Mystery 2 -23.61 5 IngM02BS02 mainland Mystery 2...

...would give a default that is different from what is in SYSTAT, but part of the problem is that SYSTAT is somewhat opaque as to its calculations, so it is hard to contrast the two. I would really really welcome feedback as to what may cause this discrepancy. Thanks very much for your help, Dan Bolnick Section of Integrative Biology University of Texas at Austin [[alternative HTML version deleted]]