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Chris

2018-Dec-17 00:19 UTC

[Samba] NT_STATUS_NETWORK_SESSION_EXPIRED Domain member

All,

using Samba as an AD (2k12) domain member in Stretch
(2:4.5.12+dfsg-2+deb9u4) with tdb as default and rid as domain backend.
No overlapping. Everything works fine. Setup was done as in the wiki
[1].

If you're connecting from a Windows 10 client and do not add

   dedicated keytab file = /etc/krb5.keytab
   kerberos method = secrets and keytab
   winbind refresh tickets = Yes

to smb.conf, the SMB3_11 connection is closed, as soon as the service
ticket expires.

1. Some websites say, service tickets are only verified when connecting
to a server. Is this still true? Why is the connection timing out then?
Which tickets does the server renew? Machine account? Is this because of
mutual authentication or encryption? I thought tickets were handled by
the client?

2. Is this related to bug 13197 [2]? That's the only thing I could find
about this status code and it seems it's not fixed in version 4.5 in
Debian.

3. Default kerberos method is secrets only - use only the secrets.tdb
for ticket verification. Why is this not sufficient? Why is
the /etc/krb5.keytab needed? It's not mentioned in the wiki [1], but in
[3].

- Chris




[1] https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Setting_up_Samba_as_a_Domain_Member
[2] https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13197
[3] https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Samba_Member_Server_Troubleshooting

Marco Gaiarin

2018-Dec-17 13:29 UTC

head link

[Samba] NT_STATUS_NETWORK_SESSION_EXPIRED Domain member

Mandi! Chris via samba
  In chel di` si favelave...
> 3. Default kerberos method is secrets only - use only the secrets.tdb
> for ticket verification. Why is this not sufficient? Why is
> the /etc/krb5.keytab needed? It's not mentioned in the wiki [1], but in
> [3].
> [3] https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Samba_Member_Server_Troubleshooting
Seems strange also to me. reading the manpage:

	dedicated keytab file = /etc/krb5.keytab
	kerberos method = secrets and keytab

are a bit incoherent settings; 'dedicated keytab file' is used if an
only if 'kerberos method = dedicated keytab'.

The page have to be cleanded up a bit?

-- 
dott. Marco Gaiarin				        GNUPG Key ID: 240A3D66
  Associazione ``La Nostra Famiglia''         
http://www.lanostrafamiglia.it/
  Polo FVG   -   Via della Bontà, 7 - 33078   -   San Vito al Tagliamento (PN)
  marco.gaiarin(at)lanostrafamiglia.it   t +39-0434-842711   f +39-0434-842797

		Dona il 5 PER MILLE a LA NOSTRA FAMIGLIA!
      http://www.lanostrafamiglia.it/index.php/it/sostienici/5x1000
	(cf 00307430132, categoria ONLUS oppure RICERCA SANITARIA)

L.P.H. van Belle

2018-Dec-17 14:38 UTC

head link

[Samba] NT_STATUS_NETWORK_SESSION_EXPIRED Domain member

Hm,, 

Good question Marco, now after re-reading it, i understand what you trying to
say.
How i did read it and understand it. 

dedicated keytab file (G)
   Specifies the absolute path to the kerberos keytab file when `kerberos
method` is set to "dedicated keytab".
	When the kerberos method is in "dedicated keytab" mode, dedicated
keytab file must be set to specify the location of the keytab file.

So you options are
	kerberos method = secret only	( the default.)  so no changes in smb.conf by
default.
	kerberos method = system keytab   	assumes the system default (
/etc/krb5.keytab )
	kerberos method = dedicated keytab   can be : AnyPath/to/keytabfile.
	kerberos method = secrets and keytab - use the secrets.tdb first, then the
system keytab

I think we should define "system keytab" a bit beter in smb.conf. 

So yeah, you might say, `kerberos method = secrets and keytab` should work fine
without the setting : dedicated keytab file
If thats not the case then we need 2 of these : kerberos method = secrets and
keytab
kerberos method = secrets and system-keytab
kerberos method = secrets and dedicate-keytab

What i think, but i cant see it in the code, maybe Rowland can tell this. 

If we use : kerberos method = secrets and keytab 
system keytab and dedicated keytab are providing the same thing, the location to
the keytab file.

And (from man smb.conf )
The major difference between "system keytab" and "dedicated
keytab" is that the latter
Method relies on kerberos to find the correct keytab entry instead of filtering
based on expected principals.



Greetz, 

Louis


> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: samba [mailto:samba-bounces at lists.samba.org] Namens 
> Marco Gaiarin via samba
> Verzonden: maandag 17 december 2018 14:29
> Aan: samba at lists.samba.org
> Onderwerp: Re: [Samba] NT_STATUS_NETWORK_SESSION_EXPIRED Domain member
> 
> Mandi! Chris via samba
>   In chel di` si favelave...
> 
> > 3. Default kerberos method is secrets only - use only the 
> secrets.tdb
> > for ticket verification. Why is this not sufficient? Why is
> > the /etc/krb5.keytab needed? It's not mentioned in the wiki 
> [1], but in
> > [3].
> > [3] 
> https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Samba_Member_Server_Troubleshooting
> 
> Seems strange also to me. reading the manpage:
> 
> 	dedicated keytab file = /etc/krb5.keytab
> 	kerberos method = secrets and keytab
> 
> are a bit incoherent settings; 'dedicated keytab file' is used if
an
> only if 'kerberos method = dedicated keytab'.
> 
> The page have to be cleanded up a bit?
> 
> -- 
> dott. Marco Gaiarin				        GNUPG 
> Key ID: 240A3D66
>   Associazione ``La Nostra Famiglia''          
> http://www.lanostrafamiglia.it/
>   Polo FVG   -   Via della Bontà, 7 - 33078   -   San Vito al 
> Tagliamento (PN)
>   marco.gaiarin(at)lanostrafamiglia.it   t +39-0434-842711   
> f +39-0434-842797
> 
> 		Dona il 5 PER MILLE a LA NOSTRA FAMIGLIA!
>       http://www.lanostrafamiglia.it/index.php/it/sostienici/5x1000
> 	(cf 00307430132, categoria ONLUS oppure RICERCA SANITARIA)
> 
> -- 
> To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the
> instructions:  https://lists.samba.org/mailman/options/samba
>

Rowland Penny

2018-Dec-17 15:08 UTC

head link

[Samba] NT_STATUS_NETWORK_SESSION_EXPIRED Domain member

On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 15:38:02 +0100
"L.P.H. van Belle via samba" <samba at lists.samba.org> wrote:
> Hm,, 
> 
> Good question Marco, now after re-reading it, i understand what you
> trying to say. How i did read it and understand it. 
> 
> dedicated keytab file (G)
>    Specifies the absolute path to the kerberos keytab file when
> `kerberos method` is set to "dedicated keytab". When the kerberos
> method is in "dedicated keytab" mode, dedicated keytab file must
be
> set to specify the location of the keytab file.
> 
> So you options are
> 	kerberos method = secret only	( the default.)
>           so no changes in smb.conf by default.
>       kerberos method = system keytab
>         assumes the system default ( /etc/krb5.keytab )
Sorry, but no it doesn't ;-), the 'system keytab' is by default in
memory.
> kerberos method = dedicated keytab
>   can be : AnyPath/to/keytabfile.
> kerberos method = secrets and keytab - use the secrets.tdb first,
> then the system keytab
> 
> I think we should define "system keytab" a bit beter in smb.conf.
You are probably right Louis, want to make this your first patch as a
Samba team member ?
  > 
> So yeah, you might say, `kerberos method = secrets and keytab` should
> work fine without the setting :
Yes it will, but anything else that needs an actual keytab wont.

> dedicated keytab file If thats not
> the case then we need 2 of these : kerberos method = secrets and
> keytab kerberos method = secrets and system-keytab kerberos method >
secrets and dedicate-keytab
> 
> What i think, but i cant see it in the code, maybe Rowland can tell
> this.
Just did ;-)
 
Rowland

L.P.H. van Belle

2018-Dec-17 15:54 UTC

head link

[Samba] NT_STATUS_NETWORK_SESSION_EXPIRED Domain member

Hai guys, 
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: samba [mailto:samba-bounces at lists.samba.org] Namens 
> Rowland Penny via samba
> Verzonden: maandag 17 december 2018 16:08
> Aan: samba at lists.samba.org
> Onderwerp: Re: [Samba] NT_STATUS_NETWORK_SESSION_EXPIRED Domain member
> 
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 15:38:02 +0100
> "L.P.H. van Belle via samba" <samba at lists.samba.org>
wrote:
> 
> > Hm,, 
> > 
> > Good question Marco, now after re-reading it, i understand what you
> > trying to say. How i did read it and understand it. 
> > 
> > dedicated keytab file (G)
> >    Specifies the absolute path to the kerberos keytab file when
> > `kerberos method` is set to "dedicated keytab". When the
kerberos
> > method is in "dedicated keytab" mode, dedicated keytab file
must be
> > set to specify the location of the keytab file.
> > 
> > So you options are
> > 	kerberos method = secret only	( the default.)
> >           so no changes in smb.conf by default.
> >       kerberos method = system keytab
> >         assumes the system default ( /etc/krb5.keytab )
> 
> Sorry, but no it doesn't ;-), the 'system keytab' is by default
in memory.
Ok, but then, with the setting, `kerberos method = secrets and keytab` it's
only more confusing.

A small re-cap.
secrets only - use only the secrets.tdb for ticket verification (default)  
- this is clear how its used. 

system keytab - use only the system keytab for ticket verification	
- this description here might be better off with something like this. 
system keytab - use only the system (in memory) keytab for ticket verification.

dedicated keytab - use a dedicated keytab for ticket verification (preffered the
OS default)
	- ( for debian/ubuntu /etc/krb5.keytab )

secrets and keytab - use the secrets.tdb first, then the system (in memory)
keytab
But now i can't explain the mix of  `dedicated keytab` and `secrets and
keytab`  anymore.

Here : secrets and keytab 
Keytab points to in-memory and/or file keytab?? , at least thats how i thought
it did work.
> 
> > kerberos method = dedicated keytab
> >   can be : AnyPath/to/keytabfile.
> > kerberos method = secrets and keytab - use the secrets.tdb first,
> > then the system keytab
> > 
> > I think we should define "system keytab" a bit beter in
smb.conf.
> 
> You are probably right Louis, want to make this your first patch as a
> Samba team member ?Well thats maybe a bit too early..  ;-) learn about gitlab more first. 
And if its happens, you be the first to review my typos. :-)) 
>   
> > 
> > So yeah, you might say, `kerberos method = secrets and keytab` should
work fine without the setting :
> 
> Yes it will, but anything else that needs an actual keytab wont.
In this line "method = secrets and keytab"
The word `keytab` referres to ? Memory keytab or file, or both. 

Because it looks like only memory but it does use the /etc/krb5.keytab also. 
So this is not correctly defined..  and since im not not sure anymore how it
uses the combination of the settings,
i need to understand the combination better for before i can describe it. 
Following that part of code is to hard for me. 
> 
> 
> > dedicated keytab file If thats not
> > the case then we need 2 of these : kerberos method = secrets and
> > keytab kerberos method = secrets and system-keytab kerberos method
> > secrets and dedicate-keytab
> > 
> > What i think, but i cant see it in the code, maybe Rowland can tell
> > this.
> 
> Just did ;-)
Thanks, must helpfull for me at least. ;-) >  
> Rowland
> 

Louis

Chris

2018-Dec-23 05:25 UTC

head link

[Samba] NT_STATUS_NETWORK_SESSION_EXPIRED Domain member

On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 01:19:54 +0100
Chris via samba wrote:
> If you're connecting from a Windows 10 client and do not add
> 
>    dedicated keytab file = /etc/krb5.keytab
>    kerberos method = secrets and keytab
>    winbind refresh tickets = Yes
> 
> to smb.conf, the SMB3_11 connection is closed, as soon as the service
> ticket expires.
They're also closed with those lines.

Louis' stable stretch 4.8 package isn't affected.

I'll use NTLM now. It's still supported by Win10.

Keep it simple stupid.

Peter Eriksson

2018-Dec-24 01:05 UTC

head link

[Samba] NT_STATUS_NETWORK_SESSION_EXPIRED Domain member

I’m not sure if it will help you but we’re seeing something similar that I call
the “10 hours problem” here. On any Samba - after 4.7.6 (we’re currently trying
out 4.9.4 but still no go) - at 10 hours after it (smbd & winbindd) was
restarted it new connections often (but not 100% all the time, but we think it
is related to the number of connections, or active connections, or how many are
encrypted or something, since we’re not seeing it on the test servers with zero
or just one or two connections).

We are running a monitoring system that tries to connect to the Samba server
24h/day every minute and we graph the response times. For 4.7.6 and earlier we
see a short period (0-30seconds) where connections are denied, but any later
version we see at least multi-minute login denials.

So I wrote a monitoring script that we run regularly (and every 2 minute around
the time when we most often see this happeningen) and if it detects three failed
connects (timeout of 20s and then sleep 5s before testing again) then it simply
kills all winbindd daemons and restart them - and then things start to work
again.

Please find our watchdog script included (as an unencoded file just for some
historical fun, use “uudecode” to decode :). We currently run it from cron like
this since we always restart both smbd & winbindd at 07:00 every day, we
normally see these problems at 17:00 and 03:00...
> 1,5,10 * * * * /liu/sbin/samba-watchdog -v
You want to create a /liu/etc/samba-watchdog.ini file containing lines sort of
like:
> username = testuser
> password = somesecretpasswod
> domain = YOURADDOMAIN
It by default will try to connect using NTLM authentication (but could be
modified to also try Kerberos) and then connect to a share on
//localhost/testuser (the username) using smbclient.

It will send emails to root on the local machine (via cron) that will look
something like this:
> /liu/sbin/samba-watchdog: Notice: SMB connection to //hostname/testuser
timed out
> Sun Dec 23 17:01:00 CET 2018
> /liu/sbin/samba-watchdog: Notice: SMB connection to //hostname/testuser
timed out
> Sun Dec 23 17:01:20 CET 2018
> /liu/sbin/samba-watchdog: Notice: SMB connection to //hostname/testuser
timed out
> Sun Dec 23 17:01:40 CET 2018
> /liu/sbin/samba-watchdog: Notice: Terminating winbindd processes: 71208
71202 71196 71193 71190 71189
> /liu/sbin/samba-watchdog: Notice: Forcibly (SIGKILL) terminating remaining
winbindd processes: 71196
> /liu/sbin/samba-watchdog: Notice: Starting winbindd daemons
(Originally we restarted after the first attempt failed but we wanted to really
make sure things we “down” (in case of something temporarily happening) before
killing winbindd and restarting those).

- Peter

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end

> On 23 Dec 2018, at 06:25, Chris via samba <samba at lists.samba.org>
wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 01:19:54 +0100
> Chris via samba wrote:
> 
>> If you're connecting from a Windows 10 client and do not add
>> 
>>   dedicated keytab file = /etc/krb5.keytab
>>   kerberos method = secrets and keytab
>>   winbind refresh tickets = Yes
>> 
>> to smb.conf, the SMB3_11 connection is closed, as soon as the service
>> ticket expires.
> 
> They're also closed with those lines.
> 
> Louis' stable stretch 4.8 package isn't affected.
> 
> I'll use NTLM now. It's still supported by Win10.
> 
> Keep it simple stupid.
> 
> -- 
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> instructions:  https://lists.samba.org/mailman/options/samba
>

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