samba - Aug 2017 - Friendly Reminder: Would you please comment on my findings?

Hello one more time,

unfortunately, one more time, another two weeks have passed without any 
reaction from neither Jeremy in person nor the Samba team/community. I 
am quite a bit astonished, disappointed and negatively surprised indeed: 
Did I do anything wrong when raising my issue with you? Everybody else 
asking questions or raising issues on this list seems to receive great 
advice, while I no longer get any reactions at all...

Is my issue (a huge performance regression when copying a large number 
of small files both from and to a share with SMB2/3 as compared to SMB1 
using a Windows 10 client) too technical/complicated (can hardly believe 
that), too hard to understand, or simply (for whatever else reasons) 
otherwise not welcome!?

Note that - as requested by Jeremy on July 14th: "Look into it some more 
(I'm a bit busy with other stuff right now)." - I think have 
successfully tracked down the performance regression to at least one 
major root cause, which is a client-side issue in SMB2/SMB3 on the 
Windows platform - see my several posts on this list dated July 15th:

https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2017-July/209749.html
https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2017-July/209750.html
https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2017-July/209751.html

So basically at this point this analysis seems mostly done and I am 
"only" waiting for Jeremy and/or the Samba team to look into my 
assessment and provide your feedback:

a) Do you think that my analysis as laid out in this full thread, 
particularly the posts referenced above, is valid?

b) In case you think it is, how can we proceed in terms of making 
Microsoft aware of their performance regression? As I feel that it would 
be much more likely to be successful, I would like the Samba team to 
raise this issue with your Microsoft contacts, rather than me as a 
private end customer (there's no company backing me with regards to 
this) complaining about this (which will only have a very low chance of 
success)...

Eagerly looking forward to some feedback and support from the Samba 
community...

Many thanks for your understanding and support and best regards
Andreas


Am 04.08.2017 um 16:49 schrieb awl1:
> Hello again, Jeremy (and hello, fellow Samba experts - maybe someone 
> of you can comment on this, too!?),
>
> please accept my apologies in case you are on vacation - otherwise in 
> case you are still terribly busy, please at least reply very shortly 
> stating when you will finally have some time to look into this issue 
> and my findings...
>
> Sorry to still be such a pain in your neck(s), but another two weeks 
> passed, and I still did not receive any feedback on my findings (and 
> questions re making Microsoft aware of their issue in case my analysis 
> is correct).
>
> Looking forward to your assessment and proposal on how to move 
> forward... ;-)
>
> Thanks a million, best regards & have a great weekend
> Andreas
>
>
> Am 21.07.2017 um 15:56 schrieb awl1:
>> Hello Jeremy,
>>
>> Am 14.07.2017 um 23:33 schrieb Jeremy Allison:
>>> Look into it some more (I'm a bit busy with other stuff right
now).
>> when will you be available again to look into my latest findings (see 
>> previous posts) and provide your feedback?
>>
>> If you can confirm that it is Microsoft to blame, what would you 
>> propose to raise this issue with them? Wouldn't this ideally be
done
>> by somebody from the Samba team rather than me?
>>
>> Many thanks & best regards
>> Andreas
>

Hi Andreas,

Maybe somtehing you already tried but, just in case : try commenting  "hide
unreadable" or set it to "no".

Regards,


Alain DELEGLISE
Architecte Infrastructure
Responsable Avant-Vente Lille
alter way <http://www.alterway.fr/> @alterway.fr
<https://twitter.com/alterway>

EuraTechnologies, 166 bis avenue de Bretagne, 59000 LILLE



2017-08-18 12:51 GMT+02:00 awl1 via samba <samba at lists.samba.org>:
> Hello one more time,
>
> unfortunately, one more time, another two weeks have passed without any
> reaction from neither Jeremy in person nor the Samba team/community. I am
> quite a bit astonished, disappointed and negatively surprised indeed: Did I
> do anything wrong when raising my issue with you? Everybody else asking
> questions or raising issues on this list seems to receive great advice,
> while I no longer get any reactions at all...
>
> Is my issue (a huge performance regression when copying a large number of
> small files both from and to a share with SMB2/3 as compared to SMB1 using
> a Windows 10 client) too technical/complicated (can hardly believe that),
> too hard to understand, or simply (for whatever else reasons) otherwise not
> welcome!?
>
> Note that - as requested by Jeremy on July 14th: "Look into it some
more
> (I'm a bit busy with other stuff right now)." - I think have
successfully
> tracked down the performance regression to at least one major root cause,
> which is a client-side issue in SMB2/SMB3 on the Windows platform - see my
> several posts on this list dated July 15th:
>
> https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2017-July/209749.html
> https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2017-July/209750.html
> https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2017-July/209751.html
>
> So basically at this point this analysis seems mostly done and I am
"only"
> waiting for Jeremy and/or the Samba team to look into my assessment and
> provide your feedback:
>
> a) Do you think that my analysis as laid out in this full thread,
> particularly the posts referenced above, is valid?
>
> b) In case you think it is, how can we proceed in terms of making
> Microsoft aware of their performance regression? As I feel that it would be
> much more likely to be successful, I would like the Samba team to raise
> this issue with your Microsoft contacts, rather than me as a private end
> customer (there's no company backing me with regards to this)
complaining
> about this (which will only have a very low chance of success)...
>
> Eagerly looking forward to some feedback and support from the Samba
> community...
>
> Many thanks for your understanding and support and best regards
> Andreas
>
>
> Am 04.08.2017 um 16:49 schrieb awl1:
>
>> Hello again, Jeremy (and hello, fellow Samba experts - maybe someone of
>> you can comment on this, too!?),
>>
>> please accept my apologies in case you are on vacation - otherwise in
>> case you are still terribly busy, please at least reply very shortly
>> stating when you will finally have some time to look into this issue
and my
>> findings...
>>
>> Sorry to still be such a pain in your neck(s), but another two weeks
>> passed, and I still did not receive any feedback on my findings (and
>> questions re making Microsoft aware of their issue in case my analysis
is
>> correct).
>>
>> Looking forward to your assessment and proposal on how to move
forward...
>> ;-)
>>
>> Thanks a million, best regards & have a great weekend
>> Andreas
>>
>>
>> Am 21.07.2017 um 15:56 schrieb awl1:
>>
>>> Hello Jeremy,
>>>
>>> Am 14.07.2017 um 23:33 schrieb Jeremy Allison:
>>>
>>>> Look into it some more (I'm a bit busy with other stuff
right now).
>>>>
>>> when will you be available again to look into my latest findings
(see
>>> previous posts) and provide your feedback?
>>>
>>> If you can confirm that it is Microsoft to blame, what would you
propose
>>> to raise this issue with them? Wouldn't this ideally be done by
somebody
>>> from the Samba team rather than me?
>>>
>>> Many thanks & best regards
>>> Andreas
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the
> instructions:  https://lists.samba.org/mailman/options/samba

Hi Alain,

many thanks for responding! :-)

Unfortunately, it's not that easy: In my case, the performance 
difference/regression between SMB1 and SMB2/3 is unrelated to any 
smb.conf settings, and even unrelated to Samba versions. It looks like 
Microsoft has introduced a performance bug with the way that their 
Windows SMB2/3 clients handle files with many entries, and this 
performance hit becomes excessively apparent once you try to copy a huge 
number of small files - please see the Wireshark SMBx packet analysis here:

https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2017-July/209749.html
https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2017-July/209750.html
https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2017-July/209751.html

for the details of how the Windows 10 client sends completely 
inefficient SMB2/3 commands in to to list the files in the current 
directory. I'm basically looking for confirmation that my assessment is 
correct, and especially for help when addressing this issue to Microsoft...

Thanks anyway & best regards
Andreas


Am 18.08.2017 um 14:07 schrieb Alain Deleglise via
samba:
> Hi Andreas, Maybe somtehing you already tried but, just in case : try 
> commenting "hide unreadable" or set it to "no".
Regards, Alain
> DELEGLISE Architecte Infrastructure Responsable Avant-Vente Lille 
> alter way <http://www.alterway.fr/> @alterway.fr 
> <https://twitter.com/alterway> EuraTechnologies, 166 bis avenue de 
> Bretagne, 59000 LILLE 2017-08-18 12:51 GMT+02:00 awl1 via samba 
> <samba at lists.samba.org>:
>> Hello one more time, unfortunately, one more time, another two weeks 
>> have passed without any reaction from neither Jeremy in person nor 
>> the Samba team/community. I am quite a bit astonished, disappointed 
>> and negatively surprised indeed: Did I do anything wrong when raising 
>> my issue with you? Everybody else asking questions or raising issues 
>> on this list seems to receive great advice, while I no longer get any 
>> reactions at all... Is my issue (a huge performance regression when 
>> copying a large number of small files both from and to a share with 
>> SMB2/3 as compared to SMB1 using a Windows 10 client) too 
>> technical/complicated (can hardly believe that), too hard to 
>> understand, or simply (for whatever else reasons) otherwise not 
>> welcome!? Note that - as requested by Jeremy on July 14th: "Look
into
>> it some more (I'm a bit busy with other stuff right now)." - I
think
>> have successfully tracked down the performance regression to at least 
>> one major root cause, which is a client-side issue in SMB2/SMB3 on 
>> the Windows platform - see my several posts on this list dated July 
>> 15th: https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2017-July/209749.html 
>> https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2017-July/209750.html 
>> https://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2017-July/209751.html So 
>> basically at this point this analysis seems mostly done and I am 
>> "only" waiting for Jeremy and/or the Samba team to look into
my
>> assessment and provide your feedback: a) Do you think that my 
>> analysis as laid out in this full thread, particularly the posts 
>> referenced above, is valid? b) In case you think it is, how can we 
>> proceed in terms of making Microsoft aware of their performance 
>> regression? As I feel that it would be much more likely to be 
>> successful, I would like the Samba team to raise this issue with your 
>> Microsoft contacts, rather than me as a private end customer
(there's
>> no company backing me with regards to this) complaining about this 
>> (which will only have a very low chance of success)... Eagerly 
>> looking forward to some feedback and support from the Samba 
>> community... Many thanks for your understanding and support and best 
>> regards Andreas Am 04.08.2017 um 16:49 schrieb awl1:
>>> Hello again, Jeremy (and hello, fellow Samba experts - maybe
someone
>>> of you can comment on this, too!?), please accept my apologies in 
>>> case you are on vacation - otherwise in case you are still terribly
>>> busy, please at least reply very shortly stating when you will 
>>> finally have some time to look into this issue and my findings... 
>>> Sorry to still be such a pain in your neck(s), but another two
weeks
>>> passed, and I still did not receive any feedback on my findings
(and
>>> questions re making Microsoft aware of their issue in case my 
>>> analysis is correct). Looking forward to your assessment and 
>>> proposal on how to move forward... ;-) Thanks a million, best 
>>> regards & have a great weekend Andreas Am 21.07.2017 um 15:56 
>>> schrieb awl1:
>>>> Hello Jeremy, Am 14.07.2017 um 23:33 schrieb Jeremy Allison:
>>>>> Look into it some more (I'm a bit busy with other stuff
right now).
>>>> when will you be available again to look into my latest
findings
>>>> (see previous posts) and provide your feedback? If you can
confirm
>>>> that it is Microsoft to blame, what would you propose to raise
this
>>>> issue with them? Wouldn't this ideally be done by somebody
from the
>>>> Samba team rather than me? Many thanks & best regards
Andreas
>> -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the 
>> instructions: https://lists.samba.org/mailman/options/samba

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 12:51:55PM +0200, awl1 wrote:
> Hello one more time,
> 
> unfortunately, one more time, another two weeks have passed without
> any reaction from neither Jeremy in person nor the Samba
> team/community. I am quite a bit astonished, disappointed and
> negatively surprised indeed: Did I do anything wrong when raising my
> issue with you? Everybody else asking questions or raising issues on
> this list seems to receive great advice, while I no longer get any
> reactions at all...
It's not you :-). You have to remember a lot of the most
active posters have full time jobs working on Samba. That
means that paying customers get the most attention. Doesn't
mean that non-paying list members get ignored, but that
you get support on a best-effort basis. You didn't get a
reply from me for 2 weeks as I was on vacation (which I
did mention on the list :-).

Hello Jeremy,

welcome back - I hope you had a great vacation :-) - and I indeed took 
summertime and this possibility into account in my previous mail two 
weeks ago, so I hope I was not too impatient...

Anyway, I'm happy that you're back and hope that - well relaxed and 
burning for action ;-) - you will be able to find some time soon to look 
into my findings so far, because IMHO the results are interesting and - 
while they have uncovered that the performance regression most likely is 
not directly a Samba issue, but rather an issue in Micorsoft's SMB2/3 
client - I still hope that you and the Samba team will be able to 
address this issue with Microsoft (much better than I would be able to 
as an individual without your background/backing) such that the whole 
SMB communitiy will take profit from properly addressing/fixing it... ;-)

So looking forward to hearing from you again - hopefully soon. And in 
case it might still stake some more time until you get to look into 
this, can you please give an idea about how long it will take (days/weeks)?

Many thanks & best regards
Andreas


Am 18.08.2017 um 17:32 schrieb Jeremy Allison via samba:
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 12:51:55PM +0200, awl1 wrote:
>> Hello one more time,
>>
>> unfortunately, one more time, another two weeks have passed without
>> any reaction from neither Jeremy in person nor the Samba
>> team/community. I am quite a bit astonished, disappointed and
>> negatively surprised indeed: Did I do anything wrong when raising my
>> issue with you? Everybody else asking questions or raising issues on
>> this list seems to receive great advice, while I no longer get any
>> reactions at all...
> It's not you :-). You have to remember a lot of the most
> active posters have full time jobs working on Samba. That
> means that paying customers get the most attention. Doesn't
> mean that non-paying list members get ignored, but that
> you get support on a best-effort basis. You didn't get a
> reply from me for 2 weeks as I was on vacation (which I
> did mention on the list :-).
>