Rubyinstaller users - May 2009 - One-Click Ruby Installer needs a new home, can you help him?

Original posted on my blog:

http://blog.mmediasys.com/2009/05/19/rubyinstaller-one-clicks-need-a-new-home-can-you-help-him/

==
I must say that my skills to ask for something are really lacking, and
my design skills are even worse.

So, I?m bringing this topic to the table, seeking for ideas on how to
improve the Ruby on Windows image beyond just code.

I?m willing to offer money to pay for it, since I?m quite aware that
Open Source and contributions don?t put food on the table.

Of course, I?m not rich, so the balance needs to be found :D

So, what is the idea:

    * Build the website with Radiant or a simple CMS over Ruby
    * Design needs to be simple and provide access to:
         1. News feed (small articles)
         2. Download info and links
         3. Getting Started Resources (info and links)
         4. Contribute (RubyForge and GitHub info)
         5. Support (access to mailing list and forums of interest)
    * Initial artwork (logo and iso) already exist
    * Application icons can be highly improved :D

For the record: there is no need to be a Windows user or designer, so
people on Linux and OSX are welcome ;)

If there is more interest, maybe a Bounty can be opened, but time,
feedback and community response will tell.

Please, comment and pass the message!
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

2009/5/19 Luis Lavena <luislavena at gmail.com>:
> Original posted on my blog:
>
>
http://blog.mmediasys.com/2009/05/19/rubyinstaller-one-clicks-need-a-new-home-can-you-help-him/
>
> ==>
> I must say that my skills to ask for something are really lacking, and
Indeed, it''s not clear what you are asking ;-)
> my design skills are even worse.
>
> So, I?m bringing this topic to the table, seeking for ideas on how to
> improve the Ruby on Windows image beyond just code.
>
> I?m willing to offer money to pay for it, since I?m quite aware that
> Open Source and contributions don?t put food on the table.
>
> Of course, I?m not rich, so the balance needs to be found :D
>
> So, what is the idea:
>
> ? ?* Build the website with Radiant or a simple CMS over Ruby
Building a web site is one thing but running it is another.
Do you already have some hosting, or are you seeking a complete solution?
If you do have one what are the features it provides, or what do you
expect from the new one?
> ? ?* Design needs to be simple and provide access to:
> ? ? ? ? 1. News feed (small articles)
> ? ? ? ? 2. Download info and links
> ? ? ? ? 3. Getting Started Resources (info and links)
> ? ? ? ? 4. Contribute (RubyForge and GitHub info)
> ? ? ? ? 5. Support (access to mailing list and forums of interest)
Here it seems that aside the news articles everything else is hosted
off the website, and only interface for picking articles on these
topics is needed.
> ? ?* Initial artwork (logo and iso) already exist
> ? ?* Application icons can be highly improved :D
This is not related to the web site, is it?


Thanks

Michal

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Michal Suchanek <hramrach at centrum.cz>
wrote:
> 2009/5/19 Luis Lavena <luislavena at gmail.com>:
>> Original posted on my blog:
>>
>>
http://blog.mmediasys.com/2009/05/19/rubyinstaller-one-clicks-need-a-new-home-can-you-help-him/
>>
>> ==>>
>> I must say that my skills to ask for something are really lacking, and
>
> Indeed, it''s not clear what you are asking ;-)
>
Thank you, thank you, I do my best.
>> my design skills are even worse.
>>
>> So, I?m bringing this topic to the table, seeking for ideas on how to
>> improve the Ruby on Windows image beyond just code.
>>
>> I?m willing to offer money to pay for it, since I?m quite aware that
>> Open Source and contributions don?t put food on the table.
>>
>> Of course, I?m not rich, so the balance needs to be found :D
>>
>> So, what is the idea:
>>
>> ? ?* Build the website with Radiant or a simple CMS over Ruby
>
> Building a web site is one thing but running it is another.
I''m going to take care of the hosting.
> Do you already have some hosting, or are you seeking a complete solution?
Well, again hosting is going to be out of my pocket too, so if a
generous company thinks that One-Click Ruby Installer deserves a
homepage and they could host it, will be awesome, but I''m not holding
my breath.
> If you do have one what are the features it provides, or what do you
> expect from the new one?
>
Well, the Wiki is unattractive, and hard to maintain. Doing gardering
on the wiki takes longer, even with the help of some contributors in
the past.

The website idea is offer, clean and simple a door to Ruby on Windows
resources, which is often hard to find, mostly due lack of integration
or growth on ruby-lang to hold this different things.

>> ? ?* Design needs to be simple and provide access to:
>> ? ? ? ? 1. News feed (small articles)
>> ? ? ? ? 2. Download info and links
>> ? ? ? ? 3. Getting Started Resources (info and links)
>> ? ? ? ? 4. Contribute (RubyForge and GitHub info)
>> ? ? ? ? 5. Support (access to mailing list and forums of interest)
>
> Here it seems that aside the news articles everything else is hosted
> off the website, and only interface for picking articles on these
> topics is needed.
>
Like a Wiki :-)
>> ? ?* Initial artwork (logo and iso) already exist
>> ? ?* Application icons can be highly improved :D
>
> This is not related to the web site, is it?
>
Well, the logo is, the favicon is :-)
>
> Thanks
>
Thanks to you!

Cheers,

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

> I must say that my skills to ask for something are really lacking, and
> my design skills are even worse.
>
> So, I?m bringing this topic to the table, seeking for ideas on how to
> improve the Ruby on Windows image beyond just code.
One suggestion would be to have a google group for the mailing list,
instead of the "normal" mailing list (makes it easier for people to
subscribe).

If you wanted help with hosting I could probably fit it on my linode
slice :) (except the downloads themselves would likely need to come
from elsewhere, like rubyforge or sourceforge to save on bandwidth).

Unfortunately I''m no designer either. :P

-=r

2009/5/19 Luis Lavena <luislavena at gmail.com>:
> On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 4:32 AM, Michal Suchanek <hramrach at
centrum.cz> wrote:
>> 2009/5/19 Luis Lavena <luislavena at gmail.com>:
...
>>> So, I?m bringing this topic to the table, seeking for ideas on how
to
>>> improve the Ruby on Windows image beyond just code.
>>>
>>> I?m willing to offer money to pay for it, since I?m quite aware
that
>>> Open Source and contributions don?t put food on the table.
>>>
>>> Of course, I?m not rich, so the balance needs to be found :D
>>>
>>> So, what is the idea:
>>>
>>> ? ?* Build the website with Radiant or a simple CMS over Ruby
>>
>> Building a web site is one thing but running it is another.
>
> I''m going to take care of the hosting.
>
>> Do you already have some hosting, or are you seeking a complete
solution?
>
> Well, again hosting is going to be out of my pocket too, so if a
> generous company thinks that One-Click Ruby Installer deserves a
> homepage and they could host it, will be awesome, but I''m not
holding
> my breath.
I think that hosting a web site (as opposed a download site) is not
completely out of question.

However, it is necessary to know what kind of hosting is required.

Still if you hosted the site yourself it would be sort of reassuring
to know that as long as the the installer is going forward the site is
likely to stay, too.
>
>> If you do have one what are the features it provides, or what do you
>> expect from the new one?
>>
>
> Well, the Wiki is unattractive, and hard to maintain. Doing gardering
> on the wiki takes longer, even with the help of some contributors in
> the past.
>
> The website idea is offer, clean and simple a door to Ruby on Windows
> resources, which is often hard to find, mostly due lack of integration
> or growth on ruby-lang to hold this different things.
>
>
>>> ? ?* Design needs to be simple and provide access to:
>>> ? ? ? ? 1. News feed (small articles)
>>> ? ? ? ? 2. Download info and links
>>> ? ? ? ? 3. Getting Started Resources (info and links)
>>> ? ? ? ? 4. Contribute (RubyForge and GitHub info)
>>> ? ? ? ? 5. Support (access to mailing list and forums of interest)
>>
>> Here it seems that aside the news articles everything else is hosted
>> off the website, and only interface for picking articles on these
>> topics is needed.
>>
>
> Like a Wiki :-)
No, unlike a Wiki.

There are a couple of differences between a wiki and a newsfeed.

First, only few authorized people can typically post news articles on
a news site but next to anybody can improve or spam a Wiki.

Second, a wiki is an unorganized cloud of random (des)information bits
while a news site is more structured. It has typically articles sorted
by time and category with some reasonable selection shown on the top
page. Any attempts to force categorization on Wikis I have seen so far
proved futile.

I imagine it is possible to turn commit messages and release notes for
downloads into news articles automatically if they are hosted on a
reasonably cooperative site.

A script could easily select the newest article from each important
category to create a clean and simple top page that offers all
important information in one place.
>
>>> ? ?* Initial artwork (logo and iso) already exist
>>> ? ?* Application icons can be highly improved :D
>>
>> This is not related to the web site, is it?
>>
>
> Well, the logo is, the favicon is :-)
>
Perhaps I got too distracted by the application icon :-)

Thanks

Michal

Hi,
>      * Design needs to be simple and provide access to:
>           1. News feed (small articles)
>           2. Download info and links
>           3. Getting Started Resources (info and links)
>           4. Contribute (RubyForge and GitHub info)
>           5. Support (access to mailing list and forums of interest)
>      * Initial artwork (logo and iso) already exist
>      * Application icons can be highly improved :D
I can recommend my friend which has a lot of experience with design GUI, 
logos, typography, books and web-design. You can look at his website and 
portfolio -> http://www.matcheck.cz

If you are interested in it you can contact him ;o).

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Roger Pack <rogerdpack at gmail.com>
wrote:
>> I must say that my skills to ask for something are really lacking, and
>> my design skills are even worse.
>>
>> So, I?m bringing this topic to the table, seeking for ideas on how to
>> improve the Ruby on Windows image beyond just code.
>
> One suggestion would be to have a google group for the mailing list,
> instead of the "normal" mailing list (makes it easier for people
to
> subscribe).
>
> If you wanted help with hosting I could probably fit it on my linode
> slice :) (except the downloads themselves would likely need to come
> from elsewhere, like rubyforge or sourceforge to save on bandwidth).
>
Yes, downloads are going to be hosted on RubyForge, as usual, but the
site is going to offer the latest, commended download links and
versions.
> Unfortunately I''m no designer either. :P
>
Me neither. :-D

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Michal Suchanek <hramrach at centrum.cz>
wrote:
> 2009/5/19 Luis Lavena <luislavena at gmail.com>:
>> ...
>>
>> Well, again hosting is going to be out of my pocket too, so if a
>> generous company thinks that One-Click Ruby Installer deserves a
>> homepage and they could host it, will be awesome, but I''m not
holding
>> my breath.
>
> I think that hosting a web site (as opposed a download site) is not
> completely out of question.
>
Well, I believe the hosting part of the equation is not a problem.
Downloads are going to be located as usual at RubyForge.

The intention of this is not replace RubyForge for bug reporting or
downloads, but provide a better, simplified and clean access to Ruby
for Windows, which ruby-lang is not offering and neither RubyForge or
the current Wiki page.
> However, it is necessary to know what kind of hosting is required.
>
I mention the development of the site in Radiant CMS or a Ruby CMS, so
the hosting is going to be Ruby/Rails based.
> Still if you hosted the site yourself it would be sort of reassuring
> to know that as long as the the installer is going forward the site is
> likely to stay, too.
>
Well, that''s what I said, I intend to host myself. Also, I intend to
contribute with my personal money for the design of it.
>>
>> Like a Wiki :-)
>
> No, unlike a Wiki.
>
Well, I tried to be ironic, but I meant to say more as Knowledge Base
containing links to the different resources in the different
categories: from compiling to using Ruby in different scenarios
(either on Windows or deploys from it to Linux).
> ...
>
> I imagine it is possible to turn commit messages and release notes for
> downloads into news articles automatically if they are hosted on a
> reasonably cooperative site.
>
Manual administration is not going to be a problem, being the central
location of all this will make things more easy.
> A script could easily select the newest article from each important
> category to create a clean and simple top page that offers all
> important information in one place.
>
Which basically Radiant can do it with some Ruby magic.
>
> Perhaps I got too distracted by the application icon :-)
>
Sorry :-)

So, in better words I think I going to run this as a Bounty/Contest/Challenge:

I''m going to open a Pledgie, and put some money there. This means the
designers that want to participate will need to be able to collect
money using Paypal.

Next, Designers can create mockups of the homepage, and use "as
inspiration" the logo/branding for the installer that already exist:

http://blog.mmediasys.com/2008/03/29/progress-of-one-click-installer-rubyinstaller/

Important things the site needs to allow:

* Simple, clean, friendly design.
* Latest news about releases.
* Latest version information
* Latest Links added to the Knowledge Base
* Access to Download information pages
* Access to Knowledge Base pages
* Access to Get Help pages
* Access to Contribute information pages

Advance details:

* Download information will contain both 1.8 and 1.9 latest downloads.
* Prior download can be accessed via RubyForge
* Knowledge Base pages are small descriptions and links to the source
of the information, either a blog, a wiki or a screencast being hosted
elsewhere.
* Get Help pages are going to summarize mailing list or groups where
users will likely get more feedback about their issues running Ruby on
Windows.
* Contribute will provide links and information to access RubyForge or
GitHub and what are the requirements to help on the project.

Mockups are going to be open to the wild as a poll, and people will pick them.

Pledgie will remain active until deadline of the poll.

Once the poll deadline has reached, the best mockup which follows the
above criteria is going to be selected as "winner", which leads us to
the next point:

Before any designer do the mock up, they need to consider:

* Once design is approved, both hompages and inner page needs to be
completed as valid HTML+CSS
* Cross browser (yeah, IE, I''m talking about that beast) needs to be
considered as supported.
* Designer could have experience integrating this with Radiant and
provide advice, but is not mandatory.
* Full pledgie money is going to be paid when HTML and CSS elements
are handed over to RubyInstaller project team, in public, using a Git
repository.
* Credits and copyright of the design will remains in the design
owner, but he must give authorization for usage in rubyinstaller.org.

I want this be the most clean, clear and public as possible. I want
community choose what community likes, not what my personal taste
dictates.

All the money collected up to the date of the poll is going to be
transfered, so is a risk, could be 100 or could be 2K, community will
decide.

Sounds good? I''m going to take this copy and use for the pledgie ;-)

Cheers,

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 4:23 PM, deepj <deepjungle.maca at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>>
>> ? ? * Design needs to be simple and provide access to:
>> ? ? ? ? ?1. News feed (small articles)
>> ? ? ? ? ?2. Download info and links
>> ? ? ? ? ?3. Getting Started Resources (info and links)
>> ? ? ? ? ?4. Contribute (RubyForge and GitHub info)
>> ? ? ? ? ?5. Support (access to mailing list and forums of interest)
>> ? ? * Initial artwork (logo and iso) already exist
>> ? ? * Application icons can be highly improved :D
>
> I can recommend my friend which has a lot of experience with design GUI,
> logos, typography, books and web-design. You can look at his website and
> portfolio -> http://www.matcheck.cz
>
Awesome!
> If you are interested in it you can contact him ;o).
I decided that the best for the project is going to be a public
contest/challenge/competition with polls for voting. See my reply to
Michal about it.

Cheers,

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

Hi,
> I decided that the best for the project is going to be a public
> contest/challenge/competition with polls for voting. See my reply to
> Michal about it.
Great idea! I think this is the best solution :)

deepj

> I must say that my skills to ask for something are really lacking, and
> my design skills are even worse.
I hope the end product looks better than the jruby page
http://jruby.codehaus.org/
and perhaps as nice as the merb and/or ramaze pages :)
-=r

On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Roger Pack <rogerdpack at gmail.com>
wrote:
>> I must say that my skills to ask for something are really lacking, and
>> my design skills are even worse.
>
> I hope the end product looks better than the jruby page
> http://jruby.codehaus.org/
That is so Codehaus looking :-P
> and perhaps as nice as the merb and/or ramaze pages :)
Those looks good, but hope nothing like MacRuby page get submitted :-P

http://www.macruby.org/

-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

> Those looks good, but hope nothing like MacRuby page get submitted :-P
>
> http://www.macruby.org/
wow that hurts my eyes.

2009/5/20 Roger Pack <rogerdpack at gmail.com>:
>> Those looks good, but hope nothing like MacRuby page get submitted :-P
>>
>> http://www.macruby.org/
>
> wow that hurts my eyes.
OMG .. is that site really gibberish or does the late Xorg Intel
driver pixmap corruption hit it more than others .. OK the page source
is shown in another font and it does make sense, it''s time to restart
Xorg I guess :S

Still the colour choice is quite odd .. that''s partly because their
style overrides my default style only in some places but not all ..
and partly the large red boxes.

Perhaps I should look into designing a nice grayscale page for once ^_^

Thanks

Michal

2009/5/20 Luis Lavena <luislavena at gmail.com>:
>
> So, in better words I think I going to run this as a
Bounty/Contest/Challenge:
>
> I''m going to open a Pledgie, and put some money there. This means
the
> designers that want to participate will need to be able to collect
> money using Paypal.
>
> Next, Designers can create mockups of the homepage, and use "as
> inspiration" the logo/branding for the installer that already exist:
>
>
http://blog.mmediasys.com/2008/03/29/progress-of-one-click-installer-rubyinstaller/
I think asking for mockups is the wrong thing to do. I am not sure a
good tool for eveluating future web design exists but to me it looks
like mockups are not the tool.

There is a disturbing tendency to design web pages as flyers and then
forcing the flyer into HTML without regard to web functionality.

Don''t get me wrong. I know that good colour balance is also part of
functionality. However, adding right style to a working web is
relatively easy due to CSS but making a good looking web usable tends
to be very challenging. Often the desire to make the page look like
the flyer on which it is based sacrifices much in the functionality,
ease of use and compatibility departments.

There are probably some designers that are somewhat aware that the web
has its specifics but judging from the state of  pages I visit there
are very few who actually understand the web.

Thanks

Michal

On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Michal Suchanek <hramrach at centrum.cz>
wrote:
> 2009/5/20 Luis Lavena <luislavena at gmail.com>:
>
>>
>> So, in better words I think I going to run this as a
Bounty/Contest/Challenge:
>>
>> I''m going to open a Pledgie, and put some money there. This
means the
>> designers that want to participate will need to be able to collect
>> money using Paypal.
>>
>> Next, Designers can create mockups of the homepage, and use "as
>> inspiration" the logo/branding for the installer that already
exist:
>>
>>
http://blog.mmediasys.com/2008/03/29/progress-of-one-click-installer-rubyinstaller/
>
> I think asking for mockups is the wrong thing to do. I am not sure a
> good tool for eveluating future web design exists but to me it looks
> like mockups are not the tool.
>
> There is a disturbing tendency to design web pages as flyers and then
> forcing the flyer into HTML without regard to web functionality.
>
> Don''t get me wrong. I know that good colour balance is also part
of
> functionality. However, adding right style to a working web is
> relatively easy due to CSS but making a good looking web usable tends
> to be very challenging. Often the desire to make the page look like
> the flyer on which it is based sacrifices much in the functionality,
> ease of use and compatibility departments.
>
> There are probably some designers that are somewhat aware that the web
> has its specifics but judging from the state of ?pages I visit there
> are very few who actually understand the web.
>
That''s why the mockups are about the distribution of the content I
mention for the homepage and also, community will be the one selecting
the which one is the best one.

Consider the mockup as the initial wireframing, the distribution of
the elements, not the HTML+CSS.

As you mention, the styling can be corrected at any time, the
importance is the information itself.

If you have a better idea, not just considering the wrong option, be
my guess and propose it. The idea and the goals are the same: help get
Ruby Installer a new web site.
> Thanks
>
> Michal
Cheers,
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

Luis Lavena wrote:
> I decided that the best for the project is going to be a public
> contest/challenge/competition with polls for voting. See my reply to
> Michal about it.
You want to perhaps be a little bit cautious of a competition because 
voters inevitably vote for eye-candy and fail to consider other more 
subtle issues, such as context, continuity and ease of build/maintenance.

Also, how far would you want entrants to go? Would the expectation be 
for them to build an entire site? Would they do full IA with wireframes? 
Or just templates? Or templates + HTML/CSS?

If you really do want to go down the competition route and you have some 
cash to dedicate, you might want to consider CrowdSpring: 
http://www.crowdspring.com/

Here is an example of a t-shirt site competition: http://tr.im/m4ZY

The key in this (and any creative endeavour, for that matter) is in the 
brief. What you''ve done so far is great, but I would also extend it by 
providing 5 sites you like and 5 sites you don''t like. That will give 
designers a much better idea of what (and what you''re not) after.

I would say that it would be advantageous to tap into the ''Ruby 
aesthetic'' in order to preserve a sense of brand and continuity. Check 
out these 5 for instance:

http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/
http://ruby-toolbox.com/
http://guides.rubyonrails.org/
http://www.engineyard.com/
http://rubyonrails.org/

There is definitely a sense of continuity there, but each one is 
distinct in its own way.

I think I mentioned to you before that I would be willing to help with 
the site, but that just hasn''t panned out for me. I would be able to 
help in advising on the brief and on the designs and so on, though.

One final thought, have you thought of approaching someone like Heroku 
for some sponsored hosting? I''m sure they would probably like to put 
their name to a high-profile project like this, and the easy-to-deploy, 
''instant'' nature of Heroku would be a good match for the OCI.

Charles

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 5:57 AM, Charles Roper
<reachme at charlesroper.co.uk> wrote:
> Luis Lavena wrote:
>
>> I decided that the best for the project is going to be a public
>> contest/challenge/competition with polls for voting. See my reply to
>> Michal about it.
>
> You want to perhaps be a little bit cautious of a competition because
voters
> inevitably vote for eye-candy and fail to consider other more subtle
issues,
> such as context, continuity and ease of build/maintenance.
In the Web 2.0 era, ease of use and eye-candy are part of it.
> Also, how far would you want entrants to go? Would the expectation be for
> them to build an entire site? Would they do full IA with wireframes? Or
just
> templates? Or templates + HTML/CSS?
All this is here:

http://pledgie.com/campaigns/4435
> If you really do want to go down the competition route and you have some
> cash to dedicate, you might want to consider CrowdSpring:
> http://www.crowdspring.com/
>
Didn''t know about that website, thank you. Anyhow, I cannot use
CrowdSping to collect the money, which is why Pledgie is good for.
> Here is an example of a t-shirt site competition: http://tr.im/m4ZY
>
> The key in this (and any creative endeavour, for that matter) is in the
> brief. What you''ve done so far is great, but I would also extend
it by
> providing 5 sites you like and 5 sites you don''t like. That will
give
> designers a much better idea of what (and what you''re not) after.
I don''t want to narrow and limite the creativity by 5 sites I like or
not. As I commented before, don''t want my personal taste (or lack of)
limit what the community will love to have.
> I would say that it would be advantageous to tap into the ''Ruby
aesthetic''
> in order to preserve a sense of brand and continuity. Check out these 5 for
> instance:
>
> http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/
> http://ruby-toolbox.com/
> http://guides.rubyonrails.org/
> http://www.engineyard.com/
> http://rubyonrails.org/
>
Good point, but:

ruby-lang.org is overwhelming and sometimes confusing. Just to get to
the ruby-core page to know how to contribute takes you time.

ruby-toolbox.com: and you worried about aesthetics over good UI
design? That site is a classic 2.0 design.

guides.rubyonrails.org are good prove that sometimes
kind-of-wiki-content can be aesthetically be pretty, but is not the
website of a tool, language or solution: is a documentation place and
documentation is prioritized.

Also, don''t want to make RubyInstaller looks like Rails, Ruby is more
than Rails, and One-Click Installer should keep in that way.
> There is definitely a sense of continuity there, but each one is distinct
in
> its own way.
>
> I think I mentioned to you before that I would be willing to help with the
> site, but that just hasn''t panned out for me. I would be able to
help in
> advising on the brief and on the designs and so on, though.
>
Thank you for the offer, feel free to comment on the pledgie description.

I wanted to get the ball rolling, and avoid RubyInstaller stagnate.
> One final thought, have you thought of approaching someone like Heroku for
> some sponsored hosting? I''m sure they would probably like to put
their name
> to a high-profile project like this, and the easy-to-deploy,
''instant''
> nature of Heroku would be a good match for the OCI.
>
My first point is get RubyInstaller a decent website, hosting hasn''t
been a priority for me right now, since I can afford it.

If Heroku or EngineYard want to offer their help, community will be happy :-)

The hosting provider should be able to support a Radiant application
(which is built with Rails).
> Charles
Thank you Charles for your words and looking forward hear from you
about the pledgie description (or even promotion of this).

Cheers,
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

A question:
When is ending term? I haven''t found it anywhere.

On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 7:52 PM, deepj <deepjungle.maca at gmail.com>
wrote:
> A question:
> When is ending term? I haven''t found it anywhere.
I thought pledgie published the end date of the campaign.

Is targeted to July 19, 2009. Ideally will love to start the poll a
couple of weeks before the campaign ends.

So the mockups could be submitted by end of June, or around that date.

If there is no submission then, all the money collected will be used
to start a CrowdSpring. with the same rules.

I''m hoping some designer wants to participate :-)
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

Luis Lavena wrote:
>>> I decided that the best for the project is going to be a public
>>> contest/challenge/competition with polls for voting. See my reply
to
>>> Michal about it.
>> You want to perhaps be a little bit cautious of a competition because
voters
>> inevitably vote for eye-candy and fail to consider other more subtle
issues,
>> such as context, continuity and ease of build/maintenance.
> 
> In the Web 2.0 era, ease of use and eye-candy are part of it.
Yes, usability and polished, appropriate design are crucially important, 
I agree 100%.
>> If you really do want to go down the competition route and you have
some
>> cash to dedicate, you might want to consider CrowdSpring:
>> http://www.crowdspring.com/
> 
> Didn''t know about that website, thank you. Anyhow, I cannot use
> CrowdSping to collect the money, which is why Pledgie is good for.
The value in CrowdSpring is the community of designers that hang out 
there. There is a pool of very capable designers who are eager to work 
on projects like this and CrowdSpring reaches right into the heart of 
that community.
>> The key in this (and any creative endeavour, for that matter) is in the
>> brief. What you''ve done so far is great, but I would also
extend it by
>> providing 5 sites you like and 5 sites you don''t like. That
will give
>> designers a much better idea of what (and what you''re not)
after.
> 
> I don''t want to narrow and limite the creativity by 5 sites I like
or
> not. As I commented before, don''t want my personal taste (or lack
of)
> limit what the community will love to have.
OK, fair enough. I was looking at it from the perspective of a designer 
who has done client work for individuals rather than a whole community. 
I know that it can be really, *really* helpful knowing the kind of 
aesthetic the client was hoping for. They *always* have some idea. ;) 
But I appreciate you''re not the client as such, right? The client is
the
community.
>> http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/
>> http://ruby-toolbox.com/
>> http://guides.rubyonrails.org/
>> http://www.engineyard.com/
>> http://rubyonrails.org/
> 
> Good point, but:
> 
> ruby-lang.org is overwhelming and sometimes confusing. Just to get to
> the ruby-core page to know how to contribute takes you time.
> 
> ruby-toolbox.com: and you worried about aesthetics over good UI
> design? That site is a classic 2.0 design.
> 
> guides.rubyonrails.org are good prove that sometimes
> kind-of-wiki-content can be aesthetically be pretty, but is not the
> website of a tool, language or solution: is a documentation place and
> documentation is prioritized.
> 
> Also, don''t want to make RubyInstaller looks like Rails, Ruby is
more
> than Rails, and One-Click Installer should keep in that way.
Yeah, what I was getting at here wasn''t the details of each design, but
a kind of ''feel'' present in each site. I''m not saying
any of them are
good sites particularly, but I am saying they have a similar theme in 
the way they look. When you land on one of these sites, your brain 
unconsciously tells you, "OK, I''m on a Ruby related site".
Each is
different, and does different things, but each looks "Ruby-ish", you 
know? But perhaps it doesn''t matter - hopefully the designers that come
forward will be experienced enough to recognise that this site needs to 
sit comfortably within the Ruby community and not be a complete odd-ball. :)

I''m looking forward to seeing the contributions. :)

Charles

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Charles Roper
<reachme at charlesroper.co.uk> wrote:
> Luis Lavena wrote:
>
>> [...]
>>
>> Didn''t know about that website, thank you. Anyhow, I cannot
use
>> CrowdSping to collect the money, which is why Pledgie is good for.
>
> The value in CrowdSpring is the community of designers that hang out there.
> There is a pool of very capable designers who are eager to work on projects
> like this and CrowdSpring reaches right into the heart of that community.
>
I think the upcoming weeks will define if asking for the mockup at the
GitHub wiki page and the pledgie are enough.

I guess, as you pointed, those are not high visibility places for
designers to participate, and I see CrowdSpring as the tool.

I will give a few more weeks of time for the original idea, and if
no-one say something different or start sending some mockups, then
will keep check CrowdSpring as the alternative.

FYI: Ideally I''m targeting July 19, 2009 to get the new website, so
poll and design must be finished prior that.

I''ll love some suggestions and tips on better handle this to keep the
whole thing clear and clean since lot of contribution has been made.
>
> OK, fair enough. I was looking at it from the perspective of a designer who
> has done client work for individuals rather than a whole community. I know
> that it can be really, *really* helpful knowing the kind of aesthetic the
> client was hoping for. They *always* have some idea. ;) But I appreciate
> you''re not the client as such, right? The client is the community.
>
Well, I like some of these sites, but still don''t know what community
will like to.

I just put the initial guidelines :-)
>>
>> Also, don''t want to make RubyInstaller looks like Rails, Ruby
is more
>> than Rails, and One-Click Installer should keep in that way.
>
> Yeah, what I was getting at here wasn''t the details of each
design, but a
> kind of ''feel'' present in each site. I''m not
saying any of them are good
> sites particularly, but I am saying they have a similar theme in the way
> they look. When you land on one of these sites, your brain unconsciously
> tells you, "OK, I''m on a Ruby related site". Each is
different, and does
> different things, but each looks "Ruby-ish", you know? But
perhaps it
> doesn''t matter - hopefully the designers that come forward will be
> experienced enough to recognise that this site needs to sit comfortably
> within the Ruby community and not be a complete odd-ball. :)
>
Yeah, in the Ruby-mood is going to be a big win :-D
> I''m looking forward to seeing the contributions. :)
>
Me too!
> Charles
>
Cheers,
-- 
Luis Lavena
AREA 17
-
Perfection in design is achieved not when there is nothing more to add,
but rather when there is nothing more to take away.
Antoine de Saint-Exup?ry

> I''m hoping some designer wants to participate :-)
Yup, my friends just has started to work on it :) But he''s a bit busy 
he''ll pass few exams at our university next month.

Heh, my friend just has sent me his first prototype of new website for 
Ruby Installer. It''s really candy-eye :). So you can count with him.