I know this doesn''t have anything to do with Ruby on Rails, but it does with Protoype. . . . I want to create a front end with Prototype functioning and a server backend with c#. Anybody know of good tutorials or documentation sites for doing this. I don''t want to use the Microsoft Ajax. Thanks, Rich --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I have been doing this for quite a while now, and it works beautifully. It''s no different than including any other js framework in your app, but the real questions I think you need answering are not necessarily pertaining to any one client side framework, but how best to deal with Ajax to begin with. The answer depends on a couple factors, like what kind of app is it (enhanced website or full fledged single page application?), etc..?. There are several packages out there, some free and some commercial, that fit better depending on those answers. In fact, my company has developed one that works great for full fledged application scenarios, and we use it in our client''s projects. We''re thinking about turning it into a product, but are always looking for early adopters to help us evolve it further... If you think you''d like us (my company) to help you dig deeper, feel free to contact me off-list to discuss. I rarely solicit via this list, but then again, it''s rare that this (mainly RoR) list has .NET specific questions, which is my specialty. Otherwise, I can certainly try to just point you to some links depending on what type of application you need to implement and how deep you want to get into the nuts and bolts... On 1/29/07, Rich Patt <ripatt-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > I know this doesn''t have anything to do with Ruby on Rails, but it > does with Protoype. . . . > > I want to create a front end with Prototype functioning and a server > backend with c#. Anybody know of good tutorials or documentation sites > for doing this. I don''t want to use the Microsoft Ajax. > > Thanks, Rich > > > > >-- Ryan Gahl Application Development Consultant Athena Group, Inc. Inquire: 1-920-955-1457 Blog: http://www.someElement.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Ryan Gahl a écrit :> If you think you''d like us (my company) to help you dig deeper, feel > free to contact me off-list to discuss. I rarely solicit via this list, > but then again, it''s rare that this (mainly RoR) list has .NET specific > questions, which is my specialty.For the record: this list is backend-agnostic. Its name comes from the fact that Prototype and script.aculo.us *are* Rails spinoffs. However, most of the questions come from people using something else than Rails. While we do have many Railers around, and we can provide Rails-specific advice (e.g. helper usage), we have no qualms helping people who use PHP, J2EE, .NET, Delphi, Coldfusion (for crying out loud!) or whatnot. If you look at the archives, this "mainly RoR" claim seems unfounded to me. I''ve been on this list since its very first weeks, and certainly assert this. What''s odd, Ryan, is that so have you, and still you say "mainly RoR." Uh?! -- Christophe Porteneuve a.k.a. TDD "[They] did not know it was impossible, so they did it." --Mark Twain Email: tdd-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Well, you got me there... and I certainly wasn''t trying to categorize or pigeonhole the list. I guess I should have said "mainly non .NET" :-) Yep, you''re right... it''s not a RoR list, and I apologize for the improper verbiage. Thanks for keeping the record str8! (And again, even saying "mainly non .NET" may turn out to be unfounded, but I guess I''ll just qualify it further by saying that it''s _my_ perception) ...oops. On 1/29/07, Christophe Porteneuve <tdd-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > Ryan Gahl a écrit : > > If you think you''d like us (my company) to help you dig deeper, feel > > free to contact me off-list to discuss. I rarely solicit via this list, > > but then again, it''s rare that this (mainly RoR) list has .NET specific > > questions, which is my specialty. > > For the record: this list is backend-agnostic. Its name comes from the > fact that Prototype and script.aculo.us *are* Rails spinoffs. However, > most of the questions come from people using something else than Rails. > > While we do have many Railers around, and we can provide Rails-specific > advice (e.g. helper usage), we have no qualms helping people who use > PHP, J2EE, .NET, Delphi, Coldfusion (for crying out loud!) or whatnot. > > If you look at the archives, this "mainly RoR" claim seems unfounded to > me. I''ve been on this list since its very first weeks, and certainly > assert this. What''s odd, Ryan, is that so have you, and still you say > "mainly RoR." Uh?! > > -- > Christophe Porteneuve a.k.a. TDD > "[They] did not know it was impossible, so they did it." --Mark Twain > Email: tdd-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org > > > >-- Ryan Gahl Application Development Consultant Athena Group, Inc. Inquire: 1-920-955-1457 Blog: http://www.someElement.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
[ aside fyi: Coldfusion is built on J2EE .. no need to cry out loud. ;) ] Prototype is a great client-side library for use with any server side language (any that I''ve tried, anyway). On 1/29/07, Christophe Porteneuve <tdd-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > Ryan Gahl a écrit : > > If you think you''d like us (my company) to help you dig deeper, feel > > free to contact me off-list to discuss. I rarely solicit via this list, > > but then again, it''s rare that this (mainly RoR) list has .NET specific > > questions, which is my specialty. > > For the record: this list is backend-agnostic. Its name comes from the > fact that Prototype and script.aculo.us *are* Rails spinoffs. However, > most of the questions come from people using something else than Rails. > > While we do have many Railers around, and we can provide Rails-specific > advice (e.g. helper usage), we have no qualms helping people who use > PHP, J2EE, .NET, Delphi, Coldfusion (for crying out loud!) or whatnot. > > If you look at the archives, this "mainly RoR" claim seems unfounded to > me. I''ve been on this list since its very first weeks, and certainly > assert this. What''s odd, Ryan, is that so have you, and still you say > "mainly RoR." Uh?! > > -- > Christophe Porteneuve a.k.a. TDD > "[They] did not know it was impossible, so they did it." --Mark Twain > Email: tdd-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
"Coldfusion (for crying out loud!) " Not to start a code practice flame war...what do you mean by this? On 29 Jan, 22:04, Christophe Porteneuve <t...-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Ryan Gahl a écrit : > > > If you think you''d like us (my company) to help you dig deeper, feel > > free to contact me off-list to discuss. I rarely solicit via this list, > > but then again, it''s rare that this (mainly RoR) list has .NET specific > > questions, which is my specialty.For the record: this list is backend-agnostic. Its name comes from the > fact that Prototype and script.aculo.us *are* Rails spinoffs. However, > most of the questions come from people using something else than Rails. > > While we do have many Railers around, and we can provide Rails-specific > advice (e.g. helper usage), we have no qualms helping people who use > PHP, J2EE, .NET, Delphi,Coldfusion(for crying out loud!) or whatnot. > > If you look at the archives, this "mainly RoR" claim seems unfounded to > me. I''ve been on this list since its very first weeks, and certainly > assert this. What''s odd, Ryan, is that so have you, and still you say > "mainly RoR." Uh?! > > -- > Christophe Porteneuve a.k.a. TDD > "[They] did not know it was impossible, so they did it." --Mark Twain > Email: t...-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Hey there (what''s your name, btw?), The Manhatten Project a écrit :> "Coldfusion (for crying out loud!) "I admit to gratuituous slight bashing due to possibly obsolete encounters with the technology, quite a few years back. I used ColdFusion back when Allaire still existed... At the time, I didn''t like it at all, for a number of reasons: way too closed a dev universe, way too little horsepower, clumsy syntax, difficulty for MVC-like practices, and the like. Then Macromedia (yeah, noticed your e-mail address) bought Allaire, turned HomeSite into something a bit bulky, and started working on ColdFusion at some point. I hear all kinds of things now, so for all I know, it''s better. It''s certainly still out there, which amazes me a bit. (But then, diversity is good for competition and innovation, isn''t it?) I just, on principle, wouldn''t buy into a non-OSS server-side tech. So I go RoR now, and use PHP or J2EE-related FLOSS stacks when I must. But again, and for the record: I''m absolutely no CF expert, and my rare experiences with it are way old. It seems much like the outsider in the server-side world though, so "for crying out loud!" also referred to its, er... exotic label now? :-) -- Christophe Porteneuve aka TDD tdd-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Heh, just FYI here, but we use Prototype.js in conjunction with a back end written in mod_perl and the HTML::Mason templating engine. It works wonderfully. Prototype (and script.aculo.us) are two wonderfully designed libraries that work in all environments. The only caveat to this is that Prototype, being a spin-off of the RoR project, uses very Ruby-esque syntax for it''s API. For our system, I''ve created a large number of perl syntax aliases for many of the Ruby-oriented functions and methods in Prototype.js simply to let our other developers (who spend all day working in Perl and don''t want to really get neck-deep in Ruby-style syntax) work in a more comfortable environment. Those aliases have made our system "feel" better to our developers and I think that it''s a practice that everyone should apply to their applications. In your C# environment, I think you might get a lot of useful benefits out of creating C# aliases to Prototype.js. That''s my $0.02 on the subject. Of course, as with anything, YMMV. -E On 1/30/07, Christophe Porteneuve <tdd-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Hey there (what''s your name, btw?), > > The Manhatten Project a écrit : > > "Coldfusion (for crying out loud!) " > > I admit to gratuituous slight bashing due to possibly obsolete > encounters with the technology, quite a few years back. > > I used ColdFusion back when Allaire still existed... At the time, I > didn''t like it at all, for a number of reasons: way too closed a dev > universe, way too little horsepower, clumsy syntax, difficulty for > MVC-like practices, and the like. > > Then Macromedia (yeah, noticed your e-mail address) bought Allaire, > turned HomeSite into something a bit bulky, and started working on > ColdFusion at some point. I hear all kinds of things now, so for all I > know, it''s better. It''s certainly still out there, which amazes me a > bit. (But then, diversity is good for competition and innovation, isn''t > it?) > > I just, on principle, wouldn''t buy into a non-OSS server-side tech. So > I go RoR now, and use PHP or J2EE-related FLOSS stacks when I must. > > But again, and for the record: I''m absolutely no CF expert, and my rare > experiences with it are way old. > > It seems much like the outsider in the server-side world though, so "for > crying out loud!" also referred to its, er... exotic label now? :-) > > -- > Christophe Porteneuve aka TDD > tdd-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org > > > >-- Eric Ryan Harrison --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
LOL, I wasnt bashing your bashing ;-), as everyone is entitled to an opinion and a preference when it comes to coding. I do agree that a few years ago CF was old and clunky but now with CF in all reality just Java it has so many more possiblilties in the OO arena, MVC is everywhere now within CF, CF is stronger than ever now and with CF8 on the horizon things are looking good! On Jan 30, 10:28 am, Christophe Porteneuve <t...-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Hey there (what''s your name, btw?), > > The Manhatten Project a écrit : > > > "Coldfusion (for crying out loud!) "I admit to gratuituous slight bashing due to possibly obsolete > encounters with the technology, quite a few years back. > > I used ColdFusion back when Allaire still existed... At the time, I > didn''t like it at all, for a number of reasons: way too closed a dev > universe, way too little horsepower, clumsy syntax, difficulty for > MVC-like practices, and the like. > > Then Macromedia (yeah, noticed your e-mail address) bought Allaire, > turned HomeSite into something a bit bulky, and started working on > ColdFusion at some point. I hear all kinds of things now, so for all I > know, it''s better. It''s certainly still out there, which amazes me a > bit. (But then, diversity is good for competition and innovation, isn''t > it?) > > I just, on principle, wouldn''t buy into a non-OSS server-side tech. So > I go RoR now, and use PHP or J2EE-related FLOSS stacks when I must. > > But again, and for the record: I''m absolutely no CF expert, and my rare > experiences with it are way old. > > It seems much like the outsider in the server-side world though, so "for > crying out loud!" also referred to its, er... exotic label now? :-) > > -- > Christophe Porteneuve aka TDD > t...-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
CF, Java, C#.... won''t much matter down the road anyway. Applications will become less dependent on any given server technology, widgets served from various sources connecting to data services all over the place on a mish mash of platforms. Mashups are the future, as is browser based development. The new debates will be about whose "mashup/widget platform" is better. This will continue to proliferate in the "main stream" (meaning non-enterprise) as it is now and then move itself deeply into the enterprise. Your javascript skills are the most important ones you can hone right now. On 1/30/07, The Manhatten Project <teammacromedia-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > LOL, I wasnt bashing your bashing ;-), as everyone is entitled to an > opinion and a preference when it comes to coding. I do agree that a > few years ago CF was old and clunky but now with CF in all reality > just Java it has so many more possiblilties in the OO arena, MVC is > everywhere now within CF, CF is stronger than ever now and with CF8 on > the horizon things are looking good! > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 30, 10:28 am, Christophe Porteneuve <t...-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Hey there (what''s your name, btw?), > > > > The Manhatten Project a écrit : > > > > > "Coldfusion (for crying out loud!) "I admit to gratuituous slight > bashing due to possibly obsolete > > encounters with the technology, quite a few years back. > > > > I used ColdFusion back when Allaire still existed... At the time, I > > didn''t like it at all, for a number of reasons: way too closed a dev > > universe, way too little horsepower, clumsy syntax, difficulty for > > MVC-like practices, and the like. > > > > Then Macromedia (yeah, noticed your e-mail address) bought Allaire, > > turned HomeSite into something a bit bulky, and started working on > > ColdFusion at some point. I hear all kinds of things now, so for all I > > know, it''s better. It''s certainly still out there, which amazes me a > > bit. (But then, diversity is good for competition and innovation, isn''t > > it?) > > > > I just, on principle, wouldn''t buy into a non-OSS server-side tech. So > > I go RoR now, and use PHP or J2EE-related FLOSS stacks when I must. > > > > But again, and for the record: I''m absolutely no CF expert, and my rare > > experiences with it are way old. > > > > It seems much like the outsider in the server-side world though, so "for > > crying out loud!" also referred to its, er... exotic label now? :-) > > > > -- > > Christophe Porteneuve aka TDD > > t...-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org > > > > >-- Ryan Gahl Application Development Consultant Athena Group, Inc. Inquire: 1-920-955-1457 Blog: http://www.someElement.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I see that C# doesn''t get enough bashing, so here it goes: Today I watched an advertising video from Microsoft, praising the new "taskbar mini window preview" feature of Vista, and how easy it now is to keep track of any installation progress reports if you install new software on Vista, without having to have the installation/setup application open all the time. You might want to ask what''s wrong with this and what it has to do with C#. Easy: for six billion dollars, they could just have implemented drag and drop installation (like on the Mac). I just don''t think the company behind this "gets it". I had have roughly the same feeling when dealing with C# (and I worked with ASP.NET for 1-2 years or so). It just feels artifically bloated so you can''t really use it without their (arguably nice) development tools. The "I don''t want to use the Microsoft Ajax." phrase of the original poster makes even more sense when you actually talk yourself into watching the demo videos provided on the Microsoft Ajax pages. It''s just a mess. </bashing> So, now for a Beer 2.0 Liter Ultimate Advanced Edition. ;) Best, Thomas --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Jan 31, 4:27 am, Thomas Fuchs <t.fu...-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I see that C# doesn''t get enough bashing, so here it goes:Are you bashing C# as a language, or just how MS have used it in their web development tools?> So, now for a Beer 2.0 Liter Ultimate Advanced Edition. ;)Someone with your nom de plume should know how to spell litre. :-) -- Rob --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
totally agree... CF now is very robust, and has been since version 5, and definitely since MX. It truly does keep getting better. It''s a great server-side platform, more than capable, effective, and enjoyable. Since version MX it has some great key OO features that are continually improving and evolving (CFC''s, inheritance...).... it''s also easy to build and deploy web services from, which is nice, if you''re into that sort of thing. There are many nice server side languages to develop with (like Coldfusion and Ruby on Rails), it''s just a matter of finding the right tool for the right job and working with what you''re comfortable with! ...looking forward to the upcoming Scorpio''s release. On 1/30/07, The Manhatten Project <teammacromedia-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > LOL, I wasnt bashing your bashing ;-), as everyone is entitled to an > opinion and a preference when it comes to coding. I do agree that a > few years ago CF was old and clunky but now with CF in all reality > just Java it has so many more possiblilties in the OO arena, MVC is > everywhere now within CF, CF is stronger than ever now and with CF8 on > the horizon things are looking good! > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 30, 10:28 am, Christophe Porteneuve <t...-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Hey there (what''s your name, btw?), > > > > The Manhatten Project a écrit : > > > > > "Coldfusion (for crying out loud!) "I admit to gratuituous slight > bashing due to possibly obsolete > > encounters with the technology, quite a few years back. > > > > I used ColdFusion back when Allaire still existed... At the time, I > > didn''t like it at all, for a number of reasons: way too closed a dev > > universe, way too little horsepower, clumsy syntax, difficulty for > > MVC-like practices, and the like. > > > > Then Macromedia (yeah, noticed your e-mail address) bought Allaire, > > turned HomeSite into something a bit bulky, and started working on > > ColdFusion at some point. I hear all kinds of things now, so for all I > > know, it''s better. It''s certainly still out there, which amazes me a > > bit. (But then, diversity is good for competition and innovation, isn''t > > it?) > > > > I just, on principle, wouldn''t buy into a non-OSS server-side tech. So > > I go RoR now, and use PHP or J2EE-related FLOSS stacks when I must. > > > > But again, and for the record: I''m absolutely no CF expert, and my rare > > experiences with it are way old. > > > > It seems much like the outsider in the server-side world though, so "for > > crying out loud!" also referred to its, er... exotic label now? :-) > > > > -- > > Christophe Porteneuve aka TDD > > t...-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org > > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
For me it''s the fun factor. Microsoft technology feels like work. Open source technology is exciting. RobG <rgqld-AFFH1GffN5hPR4JQBCEnsQ@public.gmane.org> wrote: On Jan 31, 4:27 am, Thomas Fuchs wrote:> I see that C# doesn''t get enough bashing, so here it goes:Are you bashing C# as a language, or just how MS have used it in their web development tools?> So, now for a Beer 2.0 Liter Ultimate Advanced Edition. ;)Someone with your nom de plume should know how to spell litre. :-) -- Rob --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Am 31.01.2007 um 00:22 schrieb RobG:> On Jan 31, 4:27 am, Thomas Fuchs <t.fu...-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> I see that C# doesn''t get enough bashing, so here it goes: > > Are you bashing C# as a language, or just how MS have used it in their > web development tools?They could have used Java in the first place, no need to "invent" a new language. I guess that''s just the NIH thing big companies have. :)>> So, now for a Beer 2.0 Liter Ultimate Advanced Edition. ;) > > Someone with your nom de plume should know how to spell litre. :-)MS is an American company, not British ;)> -- > Rob > > > > >-- Thomas Fuchs wollzelle http://www.wollzelle.com questentier on AIM madrobby on irc.freenode.net http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Sorry Thomas, your bashing is becoming a bit annoying now. There are a lot of comparisons between C# and java out there. C# has pros, java has pros. .NET in general (no matter which of the many languages you chose to write against the platform) offers quite a lot for productivity enhancement that java does not, tooling of course being one of those. I will not try to enumerate all of this here though, as others have done it many times over and far better than I could... I''ll just say that I''m always amazed when people say .NET is hard to work with. It''s got to be about the easiest thing in the world, especially if you take into account now all the free tools you can get (you literally do not need VS.NET full edition anymore with the various Express packages out there, and can create the same level application), not to mention community supported starter kits, etc... MS definitely takes inspiration from others for things, but they also innovate quite a lot. It''s not the perfect platform, but that does not exist. It''s for enterprise caliber application development on a large scale with minimal effort. Not something anyone is ever going to attempt with Ruby (at least anyone in their right minds). Yes, java is a fine alternative if you''re not an MS enterprise, but you''ll certainly spend more time implementing and maintaining the solution. The tradeoff there is short term cost of ownership... there are a lot of factors, Thomas, that you are either not aware of or are downplaying quite a bit. So anyway, bash away if you must, but it really sounds a bit dumb after a point. On 1/31/07, Thomas Fuchs <t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > > Am 31.01.2007 um 00:22 schrieb RobG: > > > On Jan 31, 4:27 am, Thomas Fuchs <t.fu...-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> I see that C# doesn''t get enough bashing, so here it goes: > > > > Are you bashing C# as a language, or just how MS have used it in their > > web development tools? > > They could have used Java in the first place, no need to "invent" a > new language. > I guess that''s just the NIH thing big companies have. :) > > >> So, now for a Beer 2.0 Liter Ultimate Advanced Edition. ;) > > > > Someone with your nom de plume should know how to spell litre. :-) > > MS is an American company, not British ;) > > > -- > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Thomas Fuchs > wollzelle > > http://www.wollzelle.com > > questentier on AIM > madrobby on irc.freenode.net > > http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management > http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript > http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before > > > > > > > >-- Ryan Gahl Application Development Consultant Athena Group, Inc. Inquire: 1-920-955-1457 Blog: http://www.someElement.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Hey Ryan, Ryan Gahl a écrit :> It''s for enterprise caliber application development on a large scale > with minimal effort. Not something anyone is ever going to attempt with > Ruby (at least anyone in their right minds). Yes, java is a fineNow you are (slightly) bashing as well. I take issue with the "ever" part. As of today, Ruby and Rails certainly can and do provide enterprise-scale apps with minimal effort, and although this requires some skill now and then (particularly to properly scale up the server side), the trend towards better and smoother scaling in the RoR world is clear. I would like this not to keep sliding off into a flamewar, as it seems to be now. We all have various languages, tools and overall frameworks we favor. I, for one, have spent enough time on Java and J2EE, C++, Delphi, Ruby/RoR and (from a strictly non-prod standpoint) .NET to like many features of C# anyway. It is, as you said, a matter of TCO, which includes the critical factor of vendor lock-in. Not on the tooling anymore (though it certainly remains, so far, easier and more productive to use VS.NET than other tools, except maybe for Borland''s), but certainly on the language, which is not, IIRC, as open and standards-based nowadays as it was first advocated to be. So it''s TCO. And personal taste. Here we get people who love ASP.NET (as long as they stay away from VB, I can accept the notion ;-)), J2EE (with whichever frameworks permutation they use), ColdFusion (as we saw recently!), PHP, RoR or Delphi. It''s fine. To each their own. -- Christophe Porteneuve aka TDD tdd-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
OK, sorry for that statement. You know... there''s that whole platform bias thing again. All your platforms are belong to us. On 1/31/07, Christophe Porteneuve <tdd-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > Hey Ryan, > > Ryan Gahl a écrit : > > It''s for enterprise caliber application development on a large scale > > with minimal effort. Not something anyone is ever going to attempt with > > Ruby (at least anyone in their right minds). Yes, java is a fine > > Now you are (slightly) bashing as well. I take issue with the "ever" > part. As of today, Ruby and Rails certainly can and do provide > enterprise-scale apps with minimal effort, and although this requires > some skill now and then (particularly to properly scale up the server > side), the trend towards better and smoother scaling in the RoR world is > clear. > > I would like this not to keep sliding off into a flamewar, as it seems > to be now. We all have various languages, tools and overall frameworks > we favor. I, for one, have spent enough time on Java and J2EE, C++, > Delphi, Ruby/RoR and (from a strictly non-prod standpoint) .NET to like > many features of C# anyway. > > It is, as you said, a matter of TCO, which includes the critical factor > of vendor lock-in. Not on the tooling anymore (though it certainly > remains, so far, easier and more productive to use VS.NET than other > tools, except maybe for Borland''s), but certainly on the language, which > is not, IIRC, as open and standards-based nowadays as it was first > advocated to be. > > So it''s TCO. And personal taste. Here we get people who love ASP.NET > (as long as they stay away from VB, I can accept the notion ;-)), J2EE > (with whichever frameworks permutation they use), ColdFusion (as we saw > recently!), PHP, RoR or Delphi. It''s fine. To each their own. > > -- > Christophe Porteneuve aka TDD > tdd-x+CfDp/qHev2eFz/2MeuCQ@public.gmane.org > > > >-- Ryan Gahl Application Development Consultant Athena Group, Inc. Inquire: 1-920-955-1457 Blog: http://www.someElement.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
* Ryan Gahl wrote (31/01/07 14:29):> OK, sorry for that statement. You know... there''s that whole platform > bias thing again..NET has a platform bias. The other development environments mentioned run on a variety of platforms, while running .NET on non-MS platforms is not especially well supported (forgive me if I''m out of date here). My bias is towards software that I can run without caring what the operating system is. Hence, for example, a preference for Firefox, Thunderbird, Vim (how does anyone live without it?), javascript etc. I still don''t like Java much, though. Chris --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Did you notice the.. ;) ? Anyway, we could talk to no end on what "enterprise caliber application development" really means (if it means anything), but I guess that time is better spend otherwise. :) Best, Thomas Am 31.01.2007 um 14:24 schrieb Ryan Gahl:> Sorry Thomas, your bashing is becoming a bit annoying now. There > are a lot of comparisons between C# and java out there. C# has > pros, java has pros. .NET in general (no matter which of the many > languages you chose to write against the platform) offers quite a > lot for productivity enhancement that java does not, tooling of > course being one of those. I will not try to enumerate all of this > here though, as others have done it many times over and far better > than I could... > > I''ll just say that I''m always amazed when people say .NET is hard > to work with. It''s got to be about the easiest thing in the world, > especially if you take into account now all the free tools you can > get (you literally do not need VS.NET full edition anymore with the > various Express packages out there, and can create the same level > application), not to mention community supported starter kits, etc... > > MS definitely takes inspiration from others for things, but they > also innovate quite a lot. It''s not the perfect platform, but that > does not exist. > > It''s for enterprise caliber application development on a large > scale with minimal effort. Not something anyone is ever going to > attempt with Ruby (at least anyone in their right minds). Yes, java > is a fine alternative if you''re not an MS enterprise, but you''ll > certainly spend more time implementing and maintaining the > solution. The tradeoff there is short term cost of ownership... > there are a lot of factors, Thomas, that you are either not aware > of or are downplaying quite a bit. > > So anyway, bash away if you must, but it really sounds a bit dumb > after a point. > > On 1/31/07, Thomas Fuchs < t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > Am 31.01.2007 um 00:22 schrieb RobG: > > > On Jan 31, 4:27 am, Thomas Fuchs <t.fu...-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > >> I see that C# doesn''t get enough bashing, so here it goes: > > > > Are you bashing C# as a language, or just how MS have used it in > their > > web development tools? > > They could have used Java in the first place, no need to "invent" a > new language. > I guess that''s just the NIH thing big companies have. :) > > >> So, now for a Beer 2.0 Liter Ultimate Advanced Edition. ;) > > > > Someone with your nom de plume should know how to spell litre. :-) > > MS is an American company, not British ;) > > > -- > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Thomas Fuchs > wollzelle > > http://www.wollzelle.com > > questentier on AIM > madrobby on irc.freenode.net > > http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management > http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript > http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before > > > > > > http://www.someElement.com > >-- Thomas Fuchs wollzelle http://www.wollzelle.com questentier on AIM madrobby on irc.freenode.net http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Ryan Gahl
2007-Jan-31 15:16 UTC
Re: [OT] Re: [Rails-spinoffs] Re: Prototype and C# question?
Mono has become a well supported system (sponsored officially by Novell) ( http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page) .NET apps can be run reliably on Linux, Mac OS, Unix, Solaris, and of course Windows, provided you are targetting a version of the framework supported by Mono. The .NET CLR is open... anyone is free to take it and create a VM (or whatever) for any platform you want. There may be others out there besides Mono for other platforms. You can now write Python against it. In fact, there are many, many languages available to choose from: http://www.dotnetpowered.com/languages.aspx give you just a sampling (I''m sure there are more out there). The .NET platform has achieved quite a bit along the lines of platform/language independence. No matter your _language_ of preference is, chances are you can write code against .NET. No matter your platform of choice, chances are you can run .NET apps on it. :-) On 1/31/07, Chris Lear <chris.lear-kZMsvDh4tCZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > > * Ryan Gahl wrote (31/01/07 14:29): > > OK, sorry for that statement. You know... there''s that whole platform > > bias thing again. > > .NET has a platform bias. The other development environments mentioned > run on a variety of platforms, while running .NET on non-MS platforms is > not especially well supported (forgive me if I''m out of date here). > > My bias is towards software that I can run without caring what the > operating system is. Hence, for example, a preference for Firefox, > Thunderbird, Vim (how does anyone live without it?), javascript etc. > > I still don''t like Java much, though. > > Chris > > > >-- Ryan Gahl Application Development Consultant Athena Group, Inc. Inquire: 1-920-955-1457 Blog: http://www.someElement.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Here''s a good place to get started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_application On 1/31/07, Thomas Fuchs <t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Did you notice the.. ;) ? > Anyway, we could talk to no end on what "enterprise caliber application > development" really means (if it means anything), but I guess that time is > better spend otherwise. :) > > Best, > Thomas > Am 31.01.2007 um 14:24 schrieb Ryan Gahl: > > Sorry Thomas, your bashing is becoming a bit annoying now. There are a lot > of comparisons between C# and java out there. C# has pros, java has pros. > .NET in general (no matter which of the many languages you chose to write > against the platform) offers quite a lot for productivity enhancement that > java does not, tooling of course being one of those. I will not try to > enumerate all of this here though, as others have done it many times over > and far better than I could... > > I''ll just say that I''m always amazed when people say .NET is hard to work > with. It''s got to be about the easiest thing in the world, especially if you > take into account now all the free tools you can get (you literally do not > need VS.NET full edition anymore with the various Express packages out > there, and can create the same level application), not to mention community > supported starter kits, etc... > > MS definitely takes inspiration from others for things, but they also > innovate quite a lot. It''s not the perfect platform, but that does not > exist. > > It''s for enterprise caliber application development on a large scale with > minimal effort. Not something anyone is ever going to attempt with Ruby (at > least anyone in their right minds). Yes, java is a fine alternative if > you''re not an MS enterprise, but you''ll certainly spend more time > implementing and maintaining the solution. The tradeoff there is short term > cost of ownership... there are a lot of factors, Thomas, that you are either > not aware of or are downplaying quite a bit. > > So anyway, bash away if you must, but it really sounds a bit dumb after a > point. > > On 1/31/07, Thomas Fuchs < t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > > > > Am 31.01.2007 um 00:22 schrieb RobG: > > > > > On Jan 31, 4:27 am, Thomas Fuchs <t.fu...-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > >> I see that C# doesn''t get enough bashing, so here it goes: > > > > > > Are you bashing C# as a language, or just how MS have used it in their > > > > > web development tools? > > > > They could have used Java in the first place, no need to "invent" a > > new language. > > I guess that''s just the NIH thing big companies have. :) > > > > >> So, now for a Beer 2.0 Liter Ultimate Advanced Edition. ;) > > > > > > Someone with your nom de plume should know how to spell litre. :-) > > > > MS is an American company, not British ;) > > > > > -- > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Thomas Fuchs > > wollzelle > > > > http://www.wollzelle.com > > > > questentier on AIM > > madrobby on irc.freenode.net > > > > http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management > > http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript > > http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.someElement.com > > > > > > > -- > Thomas Fuchs > wollzelle > > http://www.wollzelle.com > > questentier on AIM > madrobby on irc.freenode.net > > http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management > http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript > http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before > > > > > > > >-- Ryan Gahl Application Development Consultant Athena Group, Inc. Inquire: 1-920-955-1457 Blog: http://www.someElement.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Like in, "Thus, sometimes "enterprise" might be used sarcastically to mean overly complex software."? ;) IMHO, the somewhat interesting mixture of developers and marketing guys at Microsoft tend to not care about the one most important thing there is, which is the user of course. There''s just no need for a multi-gigabyte IDE, if the underlying framework was designed in an easy-to-use straightforward way. For example, I''m totally productive here in an easy to use text editor that not even has a tool bar. That''s because the framework isn''t bloated to extends where you lose all ability to comprehend what''s going on without help from an IDE. Thrust me, I did work on huuuuge projects (like a project that had the biggest oracle installation in europe at the time). And the one crucial thing i''ve learned is that less software[1] is a good thing. I believe we''re pretty good with Prototype and RoR on delivering environments that make doing this easier. (Hopefully!) :) Of course, that''s my experience, so YMMV-- happy coding (with Prototype, i hope!)... :) Best, Thomas [1] http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch10_Less_Software.php Am 31.01.2007 um 16:19 schrieb Ryan Gahl:> Here''s a good place to get started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ > Enterprise_application > > > On 1/31/07, Thomas Fuchs <t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > Did you notice the.. ;) ? > > Anyway, we could talk to no end on what "enterprise caliber > application development" really means (if it means anything), but I > guess that time is better spend otherwise. :) > > Best, > Thomas > > Am 31.01.2007 um 14:24 schrieb Ryan Gahl: > >> Sorry Thomas, your bashing is becoming a bit annoying now. There >> are a lot of comparisons between C# and java out there. C# has >> pros, java has pros. .NET in general (no matter which of the many >> languages you chose to write against the platform) offers quite a >> lot for productivity enhancement that java does not, tooling of >> course being one of those. I will not try to enumerate all of this >> here though, as others have done it many times over and far better >> than I could... >> >> I''ll just say that I''m always amazed when people say .NET is hard >> to work with. It''s got to be about the easiest thing in the world, >> especially if you take into account now all the free tools you can >> get (you literally do not need VS.NET full edition anymore with >> the various Express packages out there, and can create the same >> level application), not to mention community supported starter >> kits, etc... >> >> MS definitely takes inspiration from others for things, but they >> also innovate quite a lot. It''s not the perfect platform, but that >> does not exist. >> >> It''s for enterprise caliber application development on a large >> scale with minimal effort. Not something anyone is ever going to >> attempt with Ruby (at least anyone in their right minds). Yes, >> java is a fine alternative if you''re not an MS enterprise, but >> you''ll certainly spend more time implementing and maintaining the >> solution. The tradeoff there is short term cost of ownership... >> there are a lot of factors, Thomas, that you are either not aware >> of or are downplaying quite a bit. >> >> So anyway, bash away if you must, but it really sounds a bit dumb >> after a point. >> >> On 1/31/07, Thomas Fuchs < t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> >> >> Am 31.01.2007 um 00:22 schrieb RobG: >> >> > On Jan 31, 4:27 am, Thomas Fuchs < t.fu...-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote: >> >> I see that C# doesn''t get enough bashing, so here it goes: >> > >> > Are you bashing C# as a language, or just how MS have used it in >> their >> > web development tools? >> >> They could have used Java in the first place, no need to "invent" a >> new language. >> I guess that''s just the NIH thing big companies have. :) >> >> >> So, now for a Beer 2.0 Liter Ultimate Advanced Edition. ;) >> > >> > Someone with your nom de plume should know how to spell litre. :-) >> >> MS is an American company, not British ;) >> >> > -- >> > Rob >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> >> -- >> Thomas Fuchs >> wollzelle >> >> http://www.wollzelle.com >> >> questentier on AIM >> madrobby on irc.freenode.net >> >> http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management >> http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript >> http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.someElement.com >> >> > > -- > Thomas Fuchs > wollzelle > > http://www.wollzelle.com > > questentier on AIM > madrobby on irc.freenode.net > > http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management > http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript > http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before > > > > > > > > > > -- > Ryan Gahl > Application Development Consultant > Athena Group, Inc. > Inquire: 1-920-955-1457 > Blog: http://www.someElement.com > >-- Thomas Fuchs wollzelle http://www.wollzelle.com questentier on AIM madrobby on irc.freenode.net http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. 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> > Thrust me, I did work on huuuuge projects (like a project that had > the biggest oracle installation in europe at the time).No, I will not thrust you... yuck! :-) Debate over... grass is green on both sides. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Haha! I find this quite refreshing from time to time. Of course, it''s best to discuss stuff like this over a beer. :) Best, Thomas Am 31.01.2007 um 16:55 schrieb Ryan Gahl:> Thrust me, I did work on huuuuge projects (like a project that had > the biggest oracle installation in europe at the time). > > No, I will not thrust you... yuck! > > :-) > > Debate over... grass is green on both sides. > > > >-- Thomas Fuchs wollzelle http://www.wollzelle.com questentier on AIM madrobby on irc.freenode.net http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Some day perhaps... when is the next time you''ll be in Appleton, Wisconsin? ;) eh? (thick midwestern accent) On 1/31/07, Thomas Fuchs <t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Haha! > I find this quite refreshing from time to time. Of course, it''s best to > discuss stuff like this over a beer. :) > Best, > Thomas > Am 31.01.2007 um 16:55 schrieb Ryan Gahl: > > Thrust me, I did work on huuuuge projects (like a project that had > > the biggest oracle installation in europe at the time). > > > No, I will not thrust you... yuck! > > :-) > > Debate over... grass is green on both sides. > > > > > > -- > Thomas Fuchs > wollzelle > > http://www.wollzelle.com > > questentier on AIM > madrobby on irc.freenode.net > > http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management > http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript > http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before > > > > > > > >-- Ryan Gahl Application Development Consultant Athena Group, Inc. Inquire: 1-920-955-1457 Blog: http://www.someElement.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
haha... you''ve been reading MSFT''s marketing materials again! C# is a copy of java, along with the rest of their "innovative" products. No thank you, I''ll take j2ee or RoR any day. On 1/31/07, Ryan Gahl <ryan.gahl-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > Sorry Thomas, your bashing is becoming a bit annoying now. There are a lot > of comparisons between C# and java out there. C# has pros, java has pros. > .NET in general (no matter which of the many languages you chose to write > against the platform) offers quite a lot for productivity enhancement that > java does not, tooling of course being one of those. I will not try to > enumerate all of this here though, as others have done it many times over > and far better than I could... > > I''ll just say that I''m always amazed when people say .NET is hard to work > with. It''s got to be about the easiest thing in the world, especially if you > take into account now all the free tools you can get (you literally do not > need VS.NET full edition anymore with the various Express packages out > there, and can create the same level application), not to mention community > supported starter kits, etc... > > MS definitely takes inspiration from others for things, but they also > innovate quite a lot. It''s not the perfect platform, but that does not > exist. > > It''s for enterprise caliber application development on a large scale with > minimal effort. Not something anyone is ever going to attempt with Ruby (at > least anyone in their right minds). Yes, java is a fine alternative if > you''re not an MS enterprise, but you''ll certainly spend more time > implementing and maintaining the solution. The tradeoff there is short term > cost of ownership... there are a lot of factors, Thomas, that you are either > not aware of or are downplaying quite a bit. > > So anyway, bash away if you must, but it really sounds a bit dumb after a > point. > > On 1/31/07, Thomas Fuchs < t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > Am 31.01.2007 um 00:22 schrieb RobG: > > > > > On Jan 31, 4:27 am, Thomas Fuchs <t.fu...-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > >> I see that C# doesn''t get enough bashing, so here it goes: > > > > > > Are you bashing C# as a language, or just how MS have used it in their > > > > > web development tools? > > > > They could have used Java in the first place, no need to "invent" a > > new language. > > I guess that''s just the NIH thing big companies have. :) > > > > >> So, now for a Beer 2.0 Liter Ultimate Advanced Edition. ;) > > > > > > Someone with your nom de plume should know how to spell litre. :-) > > > > MS is an American company, not British ;) > > > > > -- > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Thomas Fuchs > > wollzelle > > > > http://www.wollzelle.com > > > > questentier on AIM > > madrobby on irc.freenode.net > > > > http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management > > http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript > > http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.someElement.com > > > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Whew-- hmm, you could come to railsconf, you know? :) I also _might_ be at WWDC in summer. lg Am 31.01.2007 um 17:47 schrieb Ryan Gahl:> Some day perhaps... when is the next time you''ll be in Appleton, > Wisconsin? ;) > > eh? (thick midwestern accent) > > On 1/31/07, Thomas Fuchs < t.fuchs-moWQItti3gBl57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> wrote: > Haha! > > I find this quite refreshing from time to time. Of course, it''s > best to discuss stuff like this over a beer. :) > > Best, > Thomas > > Am 31.01.2007 um 16:55 schrieb Ryan Gahl: > >> Thrust me, I did work on huuuuge projects (like a project that had >> the biggest oracle installation in europe at the time). >> >> No, I will not thrust you... yuck! >> >> :-) >> >> Debate over... grass is green on both sides. >> >> >> >> > > -- > Thomas Fuchs > wollzelle > > http://www.wollzelle.com > > questentier on AIM > madrobby on irc.freenode.net > > http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management > http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript > http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before > > > > > > > > > > -- > Ryan Gahl > Application Development Consultant > Athena Group, Inc. > Inquire: 1-920-955-1457 > Blog: http://www.someElement.com > >-- Thomas Fuchs wollzelle http://www.wollzelle.com questentier on AIM madrobby on irc.freenode.net http://www.fluxiom.com :: online digital asset management http://script.aculo.us :: Web 2.0 JavaScript http://mir.aculo.us :: Where no web developer has gone before --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> > haha... you''ve been reading MSFT''s marketing materials again! >No, Mark, I''ve been using their development tools again. If you''re a gamer at all, I''m sure you can appreciate the fact that the VAST majority of studios use VS because... why? Because it''s good. By the way, who invented the XMLHttpRequest object again? I mean, it is the company who has developed the most software products in the world, wouldn''t common sense dictate that they know a bit about development? But anyway, please don''t answer those questions... Thomas and I are already drinking our beers. ...I''m sure this will come up again. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I''m not a gamer, no. Enjoy your .NET, to each their own. On 1/31/07, Ryan Gahl <ryan.gahl-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> > haha... you''ve been reading MSFT''s marketing materials again! > > > > No, Mark, I''ve been using their development tools again. If you''re a gamer > at all, I''m sure you can appreciate the fact that the VAST majority of > studios use VS because... why? Because it''s good. > > By the way, who invented the XMLHttpRequest object again? I mean, it is > the company who has developed the most software products in the world, > wouldn''t common sense dictate that they know a bit about development? > > But anyway, please don''t answer those questions... Thomas and I are > already drinking our beers. > > ...I''m sure this will come up again. > > > >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Feb 1, 1:16 am, "Ryan Gahl" <ryan.g...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Mono has become a well supported system (sponsored officially by Novell) (http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page) > > .NET apps can be run reliably on Linux, Mac OS, Unix, Solaris, and of course > Windows[...]> You can now write Python against it. In fact, there are many, many languages > available to choose from:http://www.dotnetpowered.com/languages.aspxgive > you just a sampling (I''m sure there are more out there). > > The .NET platform has achieved quite a bit along the lines of > platform/language independence. No matter your _language_ of preference is, > chances are you can write code against .NET. No matter your platform of > choice, chances are you can run .NET apps on it.While you''re all spinning war stories, has anyone used WebObjects lately? I used it some years ago, has it kept up? -- Rob --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Spinoffs" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-spinoffs-unsubscribe-/JYPxA39Uh5TLH3MbocFFw@public.gmane.org For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-spinoffs?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---