While the CDBaby/WWR hackfest is a cool idea, it is suffering from either excessive sloppiness due to high levels of enthusiasm, or people are actively trying to game the system (read "cheat"). Either way, I''m seeing a lot of activity that is either pointless or counter-productive. Like people improperly closing or recategorizing tickets. For example: http://dev.rubyonrails.org/ticket/6604 The pointless stuff is annoying and also damaging because all the noise makes it harder to see the stuff that actually matters. But things like closing tickets that shouldn''t be closed is really bad. There''s going to be a lot of cleanup work after this contest is over. If I''d been setting up the rules for the hackfest I would have included penalties for being sloppy or cheating. I don''t know what to do about it at this point, but I''d love to see some of the big offenders get at least a hand slapping. -- Josh Susser http://blog.hasmanythrough.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-core@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-core-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
+1 on penalties for gaming. Too much is being closed for the sake of the contest without comprehension. This is equivalent to purposely hiding bugs. Kev On 1/23/07, Josh Susser <josh@hasmanythrough.com> wrote:> > While the CDBaby/WWR hackfest is a cool idea, it is suffering from either > excessive sloppiness due to high levels of enthusiasm, or people are > actively trying to game the system (read "cheat"). Either way, I''m seeing > a lot of activity that is either pointless or counter-productive. Like > people improperly closing or recategorizing tickets. > > For example: http://dev.rubyonrails.org/ticket/6604 > > The pointless stuff is annoying and also damaging because all the noise > makes it harder to see the stuff that actually matters. But things like > closing tickets that shouldn''t be closed is really bad. There''s going to > be a lot of cleanup work after this contest is over. > > If I''d been setting up the rules for the hackfest I would have included > penalties for being sloppy or cheating. I don''t know what to do about it > at this point, but I''d love to see some of the big offenders get at least > a hand slapping. > > -- > Josh Susser > http://blog.hasmanythrough.com > > > > >-- Kevin Clark http://glu.ttono.us --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-core@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-core-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On 23.1.2007, at 23.18, Kevin Clark wrote:> > +1 on penalties for gaming. Too much is being closed for the sake of > the contest without comprehension. This is equivalent to purposely > hiding bugs.I agree that gaming should be punished. However, I don''t think the case Josh mentioned is about gaming, more about trigger-happiness due to a sloppily created ticket. Anyway, remember that closing a bug only gives you 5 points so it''s not really a good way to inflate your score. It''s better to do the right thing and really contribute by sending patches (either failing test cases or fixes). Of course the real easy way would be to just submit bs as patches so keep your integrity, otherwise you won''t have much fun hanging out in the Dreambox :-) //jarkko> > Kev > > On 1/23/07, Josh Susser <josh@hasmanythrough.com> wrote: >> >> While the CDBaby/WWR hackfest is a cool idea, it is suffering from >> either >> excessive sloppiness due to high levels of enthusiasm, or people are >> actively trying to game the system (read "cheat"). Either way, I''m >> seeing >> a lot of activity that is either pointless or counter-productive. >> Like >> people improperly closing or recategorizing tickets. >> >> For example: http://dev.rubyonrails.org/ticket/6604 >> >> The pointless stuff is annoying and also damaging because all the >> noise >> makes it harder to see the stuff that actually matters. But things >> like >> closing tickets that shouldn''t be closed is really bad. There''s >> going to >> be a lot of cleanup work after this contest is over. >> >> If I''d been setting up the rules for the hackfest I would have >> included >> penalties for being sloppy or cheating. I don''t know what to do >> about it >> at this point, but I''d love to see some of the big offenders get >> at least >> a hand slapping. >> >> -- >> Josh Susser >> http://blog.hasmanythrough.com >> >> >>> >> > > > -- > Kevin Clark > http://glu.ttono.us > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. > To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-core@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-core- > unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/ > group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- >-- Jarkko Laine http://jlaine.net http://dotherightthing.com http://www.railsecommerce.com http://odesign.fi
On 1/23/07, Josh Susser <josh@hasmanythrough.com> wrote:> > > Either way, I''m seeing > a lot of activity that is either pointless or counter-productive. Like > people improperly closing or recategorizing tickets.I agree with Jarkko, I don''t think this is gaming, and I don''t believe it''s an issue. The only real way of "gaming the system" I saw so far was splitting up related stuff in multiple patches. I''m talking about large numbers of patches here. They don''t even have to be commited - open patches alone contribute to the score a lot. IMO, there is no point in worrying now because it''s almost over anyway. The contest was a great undertaking and it has made the community very excited - I hope for more of these in the future. I also hope the list is here to stay, so we (the contributors) can always gloat ... if you pardon the expression :) -Mislav --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-core@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-core-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> +1 on penalties for gaming. Too much is being closed for the sake of > the contest without comprehension. This is equivalent to purposely > hiding bugs.-1 on penalties for gaming without a strict definition of what that is. Is submitting several small test-coverage-enhancement tickets gaming the system? What about contributing documentation fixes? Closing old bugs which no longer apply? All these things are valuable, but could also be seen as gaming the system. There''s some less than stellar stuff flowing into the bug tracker, and that''s a problem, but I think the best solution will be for cd baby and friends to review the prize winners, to double check they''re going to the people who deserve it. As for the ticket in question, People closing tickets and reopening them is what happens with bug trackers, that''s what they''re for. Neither of the times that ticket was reopened have confirmed that this bug still occurs, or provided a failing test case, I personally would rather it stayed closed until someone was able to provide it in an easily reproducible form. Most of all I''d definitely prefer people keep their tone friendly and professional in the bug tracker. We''re working towards the same goal here, lets not lose site of the fact that we''re all trying to improve rails, and our own development experience. Don''t assume everyone''s evil and out to get you. -- Cheers Koz --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-core@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-core-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Jan 23, 2007, at 9:10 PM, Josh Susser wrote:> > For example: http://dev.rubyonrails.org/ticket/6604When the Hackfest started, I thought it would be a good opportunity to work on the enormous mountain of tickets laying around without resolution or comment. If I''ve been undermining the system, I sincerely apologize. To my knowledge I haven''t closed any tickets without investigating them first, even if the resolution comments might be incomplete or a little strange. Manfred --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-core@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-core-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Tue, January 23, 2007 2:21 pm, Michael Koziarski wrote:> -1 on penalties for gaming without a strict definition of what that > is. Is submitting several small test-coverage-enhancement tickets > gaming the system? What about contributing documentation fixes? > Closing old bugs which no longer apply? All these things are > valuable, but could also be seen as gaming the system.Perhaps my email subject was overly inflammatory, but I got a little ticked off. But I''m not accusing anyone in particular of less than honorable acctions, and I said that things could just be due to excessive enthusiasm. I don''t have a problem with making even small contributions. What I don''t like is people taking actions that have zero or negative value, whether it''s due to sloppiness, cheating, outright malice, or being mind-controlled by the ghost of Rasputin.> As for the ticket in question, People closing tickets and reopening > them is what happens with bug trackers, that''s what they''re for. > Neither of the times that ticket was reopened have confirmed that this > bug still occurs, or provided a failing test case, I personally would > rather it stayed closed until someone was able to provide it in an > easily reproducible form.The problem with leaving a ticket closed is that no one ever looks at it again. Really, how often to people review closed tickets (except as they go by in the timeline)? When this ticket was first closed, there wasn''t any statement that the issue couldn''t be reproduced, but instead a workaround was proposed, and only after several go-rounds was a claim made that the feature was functional in 1.2.1. I don''t want to discount the value that people have provided closing out old tickets that are now fixed or obsolete, cause I do appreciate that. I just want people not to put getting a $1100 prize ahead of making useful contributions. That''s all.> Most of all I''d definitely prefer people keep their tone friendly and > professional in the bug tracker. We''re working towards the same goal > here, lets not lose site of the fact that we''re all trying to improve > rails, and our own development experience. Don''t assume everyone''s > evil and out to get you.I agree totally. -- Josh Susser http://blog.hasmanythrough.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-core@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-core-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> The problem with leaving a ticket closed is that no one ever looks at it > again. Really, how often to people review closed tickets (except as they > go by in the timeline)?If it''s still a bug, and it''s hurting people, then they''ll either reopen that ticket or open a brand new one*. If it''s still a bug, and such an edge case that no one ever hits it or bothers to report it, then chances are we''re better off fixing some other bug. That''s my take anyway :) * more likely because trac''s search is lame. -- Cheers Koz --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-core@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-core-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Jan 24, 2007, at 0:15, Josh Susser wrote:> Perhaps my email subject was overly inflammatory, but I got a little > ticked off. But I''m not accusing anyone in particular of less than > honorable acctions, and I said that things could just be due to > excessive > enthusiasm.You may have not intended it as such, but by including a link to a specific ticket you _are_ accusing someone in particular. If you did not meant to single out Manfred, you should have either given multiple examples or no examples at all.> I don''t have a problem with making even small contributions.Apart from submitting numerous smaller patches, Manfred has spent at least 4 weeks working full-time on ActiveSupport::Multibyte, which was featured as one of the three new main features of Rails 1.2 announcement less than a week ago.> What I don''t like is people taking actions that have zero or negative > value, whether it''s due to sloppiness, cheating, outright malice, > or being > mind-controlled by the ghost of Rasputin.We''ve all been sloppy one time or another. As for not liking people taking actions that have zero or negative value, you may wish to evaluate the value of your own actions sometime. Kind regards, Thijs -- Fingertips - http://www.fngtps.com Phone: +31 (0)6 24204845 Skype: tvandervossen MSN Messenger: thijs@fngtps.com iChat/AOL: t.vandervossen@mac.com Jabber IM: thijs@jabber.org --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Core" group. To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-core@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-core-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-core?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---