Apologies to the list for continuing a thread which is clearly off-topic.? However, contacting the maintainer of an R package to complain about this specific color name seems ill-considered. 1)? The name "indian red" is a part of widely-used color schemes everywhere, not just in R.? It's the color defined as: "The color indianred / Indian red with hexadecimal color code #cd5c5c is a shade of red. In the RGB color model #cd5c5c is comprised of 80.39% red, 36.08% green and 36.08% blue. In the HSL color space #cd5c5c has a hue of 0? (degrees), 53% saturation and 58% lightness. This color has an approximate wavelength of 611.37 nm." https://encycolorpedia.com/cd5c5c 2)? The "indian" in the color name refers to ferric oxide, historically sourced from India.? Per Wikipedia: "The name Indian red derives from the red laterite soil found in India, which is composed of naturally occurring iron oxides.[citation needed] The first recorded use of Indian red as a color term in English was in 1672.[3" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color) Given the name refers to the locus of the ferric oxide source, It isn't obvious that any particular group should be offended by the name. --? T. Arthur Milne> On Nov 16, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Rolf Turner <r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> wrote: > > On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100 > Jim Lemon <drjimlemon at gmail.com> wrote: > > >> Hi Elaine, >> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I >> don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or >> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon >> to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the >> user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the >> words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly, >> and gives the real offender time to find another epithet. >> > Jim:? This is superbly expressed.? I wish that I could have said > that! Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric, > alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield". > > cheers, > > Rolf >You know, I wouldn?t have continued this thread (which has now wandered off topic from the original somewhat-more-technical question), but I feel now like it?s necessary to do so (and only fair, if anyone is considering moderating me after letting these posts by): That is a view commonly held by white people, and even more overwhelmingly by white men. Our field is already not as diverse as it should be for a variety of reasons, and this ?pretending no one else on earth exists? kind of stuff is at least some part of the reason. The question at issue here aside, white men complaining about people finding racism or sexism everywhere they look doesn?t pass the sniff test. Most or all of these things that people are reporting as offensive are being reported by people you?re clearly not listening to. Further, impact is what matters. If I step on your foot, I apologize, regardless of whether or not it was intentional, because it?s the right thing to do. If someone tells you ?that thing you?re saying is offensive or is hurting me? and you say ?I didn?t mean it,? and then keep right on doing it, what does it say to the person on the receiving end of it? All anyone that is being ?blamed,? as you put it, is being asked to do is to try to do better next time. -- #BlackLivesMatter ____ || \\UTGERS,? |---------------------------*O*--------------------------- ||_// the State |???????? Ryan Novosielski - novosirj at rutgers.edu || \\ University | Sr. Technologist - 973/972.0922 (2x0922) ~*~ RBHS Campus ||? \\??? of NJ | Office of Advanced Research Computing - MSB C630, Newark ???? `' ______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
What about just amputating the final "n?" "Indian" might mean one of two things, but "India" is pretty distinct. On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 4:10 PM T. A. Milne via R-help <r-help at r-project.org> wrote:> > Apologies to the list for continuing a thread which is clearly off-topic. > However, contacting the maintainer of an R package to complain about this > specific color name seems ill-considered. > > 1) The name "indian red" is a part of widely-used color schemes > everywhere, not just in R. It's the color defined as: > > "The color indianred / Indian red with hexadecimal color code #cd5c5c is a > shade of red. In the RGB color model #cd5c5c is comprised of 80.39% red, > 36.08% green and 36.08% blue. In the HSL color space #cd5c5c has a hue of > 0? (degrees), 53% saturation and 58% lightness. This color has an > approximate wavelength of 611.37 nm." > > https://encycolorpedia.com/cd5c5c > > > 2) The "indian" in the color name refers to ferric oxide, historically > sourced from India. Per Wikipedia: > > "The name Indian red derives from the red laterite soil found in India, > which is composed of naturally occurring iron oxides.[citation needed] The > first recorded use of Indian red as a color term in English was in 1672.[3" > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color) > > > Given the name refers to the locus of the ferric oxide source, It isn't > obvious that any particular group should be offended by the name. > > > -- T. Arthur Milne > > > > On Nov 16, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Rolf Turner <r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> > wrote: > > > > On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100 > > Jim Lemon <drjimlemon at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Elaine, > >> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I > >> don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or > >> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon > >> to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the > >> user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the > >> words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly, > >> and gives the real offender time to find another epithet. > >> > > Jim: This is superbly expressed. I wish that I could have said > > that! Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric, > > alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield". > > > > cheers, > > > > Rolf > > > You know, I wouldn?t have continued this thread (which has now wandered > off topic from the original somewhat-more-technical question), but I feel > now like it?s necessary to do so (and only fair, if anyone is considering > moderating me after letting these posts by): > > That is a view commonly held by white people, and even more overwhelmingly > by white men. Our field is already not as diverse as it should be for a > variety of reasons, and this ?pretending no one else on earth exists? kind > of stuff is at least some part of the reason. The question at issue here > aside, white men complaining about people finding racism or sexism > everywhere they look doesn?t pass the sniff test. Most or all of these > things that people are reporting as offensive are being reported by people > you?re clearly not listening to. > > Further, impact is what matters. If I step on your foot, I apologize, > regardless of whether or not it was intentional, because it?s the right > thing to do. If someone tells you ?that thing you?re saying is offensive or > is hurting me? and you say ?I didn?t mean it,? and then keep right on doing > it, what does it say to the person on the receiving end of it? All anyone > that is being ?blamed,? as you put it, is being asked to do is to try to do > better next time. > > -- > #BlackLivesMatter > ____ > || \\UTGERS, |---------------------------*O*--------------------------- > ||_// the State | Ryan Novosielski - novosirj at rutgers.edu > || \\ University | Sr. Technologist - 973/972.0922 (2x0922) ~*~ RBHS Campus > || \\ of NJ | Office of Advanced Research Computing - MSB C630, Newark > `' > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >[[alternative HTML version deleted]]
Might it be appropriate to raise that question on the Talk page associated with the Wikipedia article on "Indian red (color)": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color) Many Wikimedian are generally sympathetic to discussions of political correctness and similar topics. If the name of that article were changed, then it should be a lot easier to pursue a similar name change elsewhere. Spencer Graves On 2020-11-17 15:25, Mitchell Maltenfort wrote:> What about just amputating the final "n?" > > "Indian" might mean one of two things, but "India" is pretty distinct. > > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 4:10 PM T. A. Milne via R-help <r-help at r-project.org> > wrote: > >> >> Apologies to the list for continuing a thread which is clearly off-topic. >> However, contacting the maintainer of an R package to complain about this >> specific color name seems ill-considered. >> >> 1) The name "indian red" is a part of widely-used color schemes >> everywhere, not just in R. It's the color defined as: >> >> "The color indianred / Indian red with hexadecimal color code #cd5c5c is a >> shade of red. In the RGB color model #cd5c5c is comprised of 80.39% red, >> 36.08% green and 36.08% blue. In the HSL color space #cd5c5c has a hue of >> 0? (degrees), 53% saturation and 58% lightness. This color has an >> approximate wavelength of 611.37 nm." >> >> https://encycolorpedia.com/cd5c5c >> >> >> 2) The "indian" in the color name refers to ferric oxide, historically >> sourced from India. Per Wikipedia: >> >> "The name Indian red derives from the red laterite soil found in India, >> which is composed of naturally occurring iron oxides.[citation needed] The >> first recorded use of Indian red as a color term in English was in 1672.[3" >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_red_(color) >> >> >> Given the name refers to the locus of the ferric oxide source, It isn't >> obvious that any particular group should be offended by the name. >> >> >> -- T. Arthur Milne >> >> >>> On Nov 16, 2020, at 5:46 PM, Rolf Turner <r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> >> wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 07:54:01 +1100 >>> Jim Lemon <drjimlemon at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi Elaine, >>>> There seems to be a popular contest to discover offence everywhere. I >>>> don't think that it does anything against racism, sexism or >>>> antidisestablishmentarianism. Words are plucked from our vast lexicon >>>> to comfort or insult our fellows depending upon the intent of the >>>> user. It is the intent that matters, not the poor word. Chasing the >>>> words wastes your time, blames those who use the words harmlessly, >>>> and gives the real offender time to find another epithet. >>>> >>> Jim: This is superbly expressed. I wish that I could have said >>> that! Your posting should go down in the annals of brilliant rhetoric, >>> alongside Dr. Johnson's "Letter to Lord Chesterfield". >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> Rolf >>> >> You know, I wouldn?t have continued this thread (which has now wandered >> off topic from the original somewhat-more-technical question), but I feel >> now like it?s necessary to do so (and only fair, if anyone is considering >> moderating me after letting these posts by): >> >> That is a view commonly held by white people, and even more overwhelmingly >> by white men. Our field is already not as diverse as it should be for a >> variety of reasons, and this ?pretending no one else on earth exists? kind >> of stuff is at least some part of the reason. The question at issue here >> aside, white men complaining about people finding racism or sexism >> everywhere they look doesn?t pass the sniff test. Most or all of these >> things that people are reporting as offensive are being reported by people >> you?re clearly not listening to. >> >> Further, impact is what matters. If I step on your foot, I apologize, >> regardless of whether or not it was intentional, because it?s the right >> thing to do. If someone tells you ?that thing you?re saying is offensive or >> is hurting me? and you say ?I didn?t mean it,? and then keep right on doing >> it, what does it say to the person on the receiving end of it? All anyone >> that is being ?blamed,? as you put it, is being asked to do is to try to do >> better next time. >> >> -- >> #BlackLivesMatter >> ____ >> || \\UTGERS, |---------------------------*O*--------------------------- >> ||_// the State | Ryan Novosielski - novosirj at rutgers.edu >> || \\ University | Sr. Technologist - 973/972.0922 (2x0922) ~*~ RBHS Campus >> || \\ of NJ | Office of Advanced Research Computing - MSB C630, Newark >> `' >> >> ______________________________________________ >> R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >> PLEASE do read the posting guide >> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >> >> ______________________________________________ >> R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >> PLEASE do read the posting guide >> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >> > > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >