I don't want to relight the fire, but I was wondering about that statement from John C Frain: "If you use RStudio and do not install any of the RStudio packages". I guess you mean that some packages are bundled with RStudio. I had never noticed any optional packages during the installation of RStudio... Is there a way to identify (and delete, if wished) these packages? Or have I misunderstood? Thank you! Ivan -- Dr. Ivan Calandra TraCEr, laboratory for Traceology and Controlled Experiments MONREPOS Archaeological Research Centre and Museum for Human Behavioural Evolution Schloss Monrepos 56567 Neuwied, Germany +49 (0) 2631 9772-243 https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ivan_Calandra On 16/08/2020 20:20, John C Frain wrote:> On Sun 16 Aug 2020 at 06:32, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> > wrote: > >> a) Read about it yourself. It is a legal definition. >> >> b) Don't "correct" me with misinformation you are clearly inventing. >> RStudio the software does not "introduce people to a modified version of >> R." Each user has to opt in to that "modified" experience by explicitly >> installing each of the the many CRAN packages that various employees of >> RStudio have created and all of which can (to my knowledge) be used without >> installing the RStudio IDE at all. Yes, a bunch of them can be grabbed at >> once by installing the tidyverse package, but that is also a choice made by >> users and by instructors struggling to deal with students who have a hard >> time with Excel much less functional programming. But RStudio is an R IDE. >> >> There are a lot of packages sponsored by RStudio that I find redundant and >> slow, but portraying the RStudio company or the IDE as inherently "not R" >> just because newbies like the IDE and the packages they sponsor, and who >> end up confusing R with RStudio even though they have to install both, is >> small-minded and biased > > To clarify: If you use RStudio and do not install any of the RStudio > packages, R in RStudio is the same R as if you were running it from the > command line. I would think that many users find command completion, > access to help files, project management Etc. useful. Nobody is asking > anyone to install the RStudio packages. I do sometimes but not always and > have found them useful. Jeff is 100% correct. > > >> On August 15, 2020 9:10:34 PM PDT, Abby Spurdle <spurdle.a at gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:11 PM Jeff Newmiller >>> <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: >>>> It is a public benefit corporation >>> Seriously? >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:11 PM Jeff Newmiller >>> <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: >>>> used to introduce people to R >>> Correction, it introduces people to a modified version of R. >> -- >> Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> ______________________________________________ >> R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >> PLEASE do read the posting guide >> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >>
On 17/08/2020 9:20 a.m., Ivan Calandra wrote:> I don't want to relight the fire, but I was wondering about that > statement from John C Frain: > "If you use RStudio and do not install any of the RStudio packages". > > I guess you mean that some packages are bundled with RStudio. I had > never noticed any optional packages during the installation of > RStudio... Is there a way to identify (and delete, if wished) these > packages? > Or have I misunderstood?When you are running RStudio, your search list will include "tools:rstudio". It's not exactly a package, it's an environment containing functions used by the RStudio front end. You can delete it and R will still work fine, but I'd expect some parts of the GUI to stop working. Some RStudio actions (e.g. clicking the "knit" button) will prompt you to install packages if they are not found. I don't think any of them are "bundled" with RStudio, but I might be wrong about that. RStudio definitely installs Pandoc and maybe some other packages. (These aren't R packages, they are packages in a more general sense.) Certainly you should be able to delete Pandoc if you have permissions to install it; that may break RMarkdown if you don't have another copy somewhere.) To identify what R packages got installed, just run "installed.packages()" before and after installing RStudio, and look for differences. Duncan Murdoch> > Thank you! > Ivan > > -- > Dr. Ivan Calandra > TraCEr, laboratory for Traceology and Controlled Experiments > MONREPOS Archaeological Research Centre and > Museum for Human Behavioural Evolution > Schloss Monrepos > 56567 Neuwied, Germany > +49 (0) 2631 9772-243 > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ivan_Calandra > > On 16/08/2020 20:20, John C Frain wrote: >> On Sun 16 Aug 2020 at 06:32, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> >> wrote: >> >>> a) Read about it yourself. It is a legal definition. >>> >>> b) Don't "correct" me with misinformation you are clearly inventing. >>> RStudio the software does not "introduce people to a modified version of >>> R." Each user has to opt in to that "modified" experience by explicitly >>> installing each of the the many CRAN packages that various employees of >>> RStudio have created and all of which can (to my knowledge) be used without >>> installing the RStudio IDE at all. Yes, a bunch of them can be grabbed at >>> once by installing the tidyverse package, but that is also a choice made by >>> users and by instructors struggling to deal with students who have a hard >>> time with Excel much less functional programming. But RStudio is an R IDE. >>> >>> There are a lot of packages sponsored by RStudio that I find redundant and >>> slow, but portraying the RStudio company or the IDE as inherently "not R" >>> just because newbies like the IDE and the packages they sponsor, and who >>> end up confusing R with RStudio even though they have to install both, is >>> small-minded and biased >> >> To clarify: If you use RStudio and do not install any of the RStudio >> packages, R in RStudio is the same R as if you were running it from the >> command line. I would think that many users find command completion, >> access to help files, project management Etc. useful. Nobody is asking >> anyone to install the RStudio packages. I do sometimes but not always and >> have found them useful. Jeff is 100% correct. >> >> >>> On August 15, 2020 9:10:34 PM PDT, Abby Spurdle <spurdle.a at gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:11 PM Jeff Newmiller >>>> <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: >>>>> It is a public benefit corporation >>>> Seriously? >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:11 PM Jeff Newmiller >>>> <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: >>>>> used to introduce people to R >>>> Correction, it introduces people to a modified version of R. >>> -- >>> Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity. >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see >>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >>> PLEASE do read the posting guide >>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >>> > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >
Thank you again Duncan for the details. Best, Ivan -- Dr. Ivan Calandra TraCEr, laboratory for Traceology and Controlled Experiments MONREPOS Archaeological Research Centre and Museum for Human Behavioural Evolution Schloss Monrepos 56567 Neuwied, Germany +49 (0) 2631 9772-243 https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ivan_Calandra On 17/08/2020 20:50, Duncan Murdoch wrote:> On 17/08/2020 9:20 a.m., Ivan Calandra wrote: >> I don't want to relight the fire, but I was wondering about that >> statement from John C Frain: >> "If you use RStudio and do not install any of the RStudio packages". >> >> I guess you mean that some packages are bundled with RStudio. I had >> never noticed any optional packages during the installation of >> RStudio... Is there a way to identify (and delete, if wished) these >> packages? >> Or have I misunderstood? > > When you are running RStudio, your search list will include > "tools:rstudio".? It's not exactly a package, it's an environment > containing functions used by the RStudio front end.? You can delete it > and R will still work fine, but I'd expect some parts of the GUI to > stop working. > > Some RStudio actions (e.g. clicking the "knit" button) will prompt you > to install packages if they are not found.? I don't think any of them > are "bundled" with RStudio, but I might be wrong about that. > > RStudio definitely installs Pandoc and maybe some other packages. > (These aren't R packages, they are packages in a more general sense.) > Certainly you should be able to delete Pandoc if you have permissions > to install it; that may break RMarkdown if you don't have another copy > somewhere.) > > To identify what R packages got installed, just run > "installed.packages()" before and after installing RStudio, and look > for differences. > > Duncan Murdoch > > >> >> Thank you! >> Ivan >> >> -- >> Dr. Ivan Calandra >> TraCEr, laboratory for Traceology and Controlled Experiments >> MONREPOS Archaeological Research Centre and >> Museum for Human Behavioural Evolution >> Schloss Monrepos >> 56567 Neuwied, Germany >> +49 (0) 2631 9772-243 >> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ivan_Calandra >> >> On 16/08/2020 20:20, John C Frain wrote: >>> On Sun 16 Aug 2020 at 06:32, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> a) Read about it yourself. It is a legal definition. >>>> >>>> b) Don't "correct" me with misinformation you are clearly inventing. >>>> RStudio the software does not "introduce people to a modified >>>> version of >>>> R." Each user has to opt in to that "modified" experience by >>>> explicitly >>>> installing each of the the many CRAN packages that various >>>> employees of >>>> RStudio have created and all of which can (to my knowledge) be used >>>> without >>>> installing the RStudio IDE at all. Yes, a bunch of them can be >>>> grabbed at >>>> once by installing the tidyverse package, but that is also a choice >>>> made by >>>> users and by instructors struggling to deal with students who have >>>> a hard >>>> time with Excel much less functional programming. But RStudio is an >>>> R IDE. >>>> >>>> There are a lot of packages sponsored by RStudio that I find >>>> redundant and >>>> slow, but portraying the RStudio company or the IDE as inherently >>>> "not R" >>>> just because newbies like the IDE and the packages they sponsor, >>>> and who >>>> end up confusing R with RStudio even though they have to install >>>> both, is >>>> small-minded and biased >>> >>> To clarify:? If you use RStudio and do not install any of the RStudio >>> packages, R in RStudio is the same R as if you were running it from the >>> command line.? I would think that many users find command completion, >>> access to help files, project management Etc. useful. Nobody is asking >>> anyone to install the RStudio packages.? I do sometimes but not >>> always and >>> have found them useful. Jeff is 100% correct. >>> >>> >>>> ? On August 15, 2020 9:10:34 PM PDT, Abby Spurdle >>>> <spurdle.a at gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:11 PM Jeff Newmiller >>>>> <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: >>>>>> ? It is a public benefit corporation >>>>> Seriously? >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 12:11 PM Jeff Newmiller >>>>> <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote: >>>>>> ? used to introduce people to R >>>>> Correction, it introduces people to a modified version of R. >>>> -- >>>> Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity. >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see >>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide >>>> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >>>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >> PLEASE do read the posting guide >> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >> > >
On 2020-08-17 14:50 -0400, Duncan Murdoch wrote: | | Certainly you should be able to delete | Pandoc if you have permissions to | install it; that may break RMarkdown | if you don't have another copy | somewhere.) I use Rmarkdown outside of Rstudio, just with rmarkdown::render in an Rscript run with entr[1]. On ArchLinux I at least need pandoc-citeproc[2] which needs a bunch of other Haskell packages. [1] http://eradman.com/entrproject [2] https://hackage.haskell.org/package/pandoc-citeproc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/attachments/20200818/386ffc46/attachment.sig>