R help - Oct 2019 - [EXTERNAL] Re: "chi-square" | "chi-squared" | "chi squared" | "chi square" ?

oh my...

I'd like to see the statistics on it before jumping to a conclusion that
the American preference is "chi-square" and the British preference is
"chi-squared". I don't see that at all.

------
In keeping with the pronunciation of x^2 and 3^2, maybe "chi-squared"
makes
the most sense,.

The "chi-square"? Because the iterated dentals in "chi-squared
distribution" and "chi-squared test" are a little cumbersome to
pronounce,
an even slightly lazy pronunciation would sound like "chi-square
distribution" and "chi-square test". There's no need to write
it that way
though.

-Dan



On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 2:28 PM Richard M. Heiberger <rmh at temple.edu>
wrote:
> What a delightful question.  Bill Cochran discussed this in class
> one day about 50 years ago.  He said the British usage (which I think
> he said was chi-squared,
> as is consistent with the other memories in this thread)
> is what he learned and previously used.  But he had been in the US for
> so long that he was now using
> the American preference (chi-square).
>
> Rich
>
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Martin Maechler
> <maechler at stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote:
> >
> > As it's Friday ..
> >
> > and I also really want to clean up help files and similar R documents,
> > both in R's own sources and in my new 'DPQ' CRAN package :
> >
> > As a trained mathematician, I'm uneasy if a thing has
> > several easily confusable names, .. but as somewhat
> > humanistically educated person, I know that natural languages,
> > English in this case, are much more flexible than computer
> > languages or math...
> >
> > Anyway, back to the question(s) .. which I had asked myself a
> > couple of months ago, and already remained slightly undecided:
> >
> > The 0-th (meta-)question of course is
> >
> >   0. Is it worth using only one written form for the
> >      ?? - distribution, e.g. "everywhere" in R?
> >
> > The answer is not obvious, as already the first few words of the
> > (English) Wikipedia clearly convey:
> >
> > The URL is  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi-squared_distribution
> > and the main title therefore also
> >     "Chi-squared distribution"
> >
> > Then it reads
> >
> > > This article is about the mathematics of the chi-squared
> > > distribution. For its uses in statistics, see chi-squared
> > > test. For the music [...]
> >
> > > In probability theory and statistics, the chi-square
> > > distribution (also chi-squared or ?2-distribution) with k
> > > degrees of freedom is the distribution of a sum of the squares
> > > of k independent standard normal random variables.
> >
> > > The chi-square distribution is a special case of the gamma
> > > distribution and is one of the most widely used probability
> > > distributions in inferential statistics, notably in hypothesis
> > > testing [........]
> > > [........]
> >
> > So, in title and 1st paragraph its "chi-squared", but then
> > everywhere(?) the text used "chi-square".
> >
> > Undoubtedly, Wilson & Hilferty (1931) has been an important
> > paper and they use "Chi-square" in the title;
> > also  Johnson, Kotz & Balakrishnan (1995)
> > see R's help page ?pchisq use  "Chi-square" in the title
of
> > chapter 18 and then, diplomatically for chapter 29,
> >  "Noncentral ??-Distributions" as title.
> >
> > So it seems, that historically and using prestigious sources,
> > "chi-square" to dominate (notably if we do not count
"??" as an
> > alternative).
> >
> > Things look a bit different when I study R's sources; on one
> > hand, I find all 4 forms (s.Subject); then in the "R source
> > history", I see
> >
> >   $ svn log -c11342
> >
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >   r11342 | <....> | 2000-11-14 ...
> >
> >   Use `chi-squared'.
> >
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > which changed 16 (if I counted correctly) cases of
'chi-square' to
> 'chi-squared'.
> >
> > I have not found any R-core internal (or public) reasoning about
> > that change, but had kept it in mind and often worked along that
"goal".
> >
> > As a consequence, "statistically" speaking, much of R's
own use has been
> > standardized to use "chi-squared"; but as I mentioned, I
still
> > find all  4  variants even in "R base" package help files
> > (which of course I now could quite quickly change  (using Emacs M-x
> grep, plus a script);
> > but
> >
> > ... "as it is Friday" ... I'm interested to hear what
others
> > think, notably if you are native English (or "American" ;-)
> > speaking and/or have some extra good knowledge on such
> > matters...
> >
> > Martin Maechler
> > ETH Zurich
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>

-- 
Dan Dalthorp, PhD
USGS Forest and Rangeland Ecosystem Science Center
Forest Sciences Lab, Rm 311
3200 SW Jefferson Way
Corvallis, OR 97331
ph: 541-750-0953
ddalthorp at usgs.gov

	[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

Pearson's original paper uses both \chi and \chi^2 frequently but
never spells out how to pronounce the latter.
Try another question: when talking about \sigma^2 do you say
"sigma-square" (which sounds rather odd) or "sigma-squared"
(which
sounds more natural)?  If you say sigma-square, say chi-square.  If
you say sigma-squared, say chi-squared.
For what it's worth, the multu=i-volume "Encyclopedia of Statistical
Sciences", 2nd edition, uses both variants.
And so does Kendal & Stuart, volume 2, 1961, although "-squared"
seems
to predominate.

On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 at 11:27, Dalthorp, Daniel via R-help
<r-help at r-project.org> wrote:
>
> oh my...
>
> I'd like to see the statistics on it before jumping to a conclusion
that
> the American preference is "chi-square" and the British
preference is
> "chi-squared". I don't see that at all.
>
> ------
> In keeping with the pronunciation of x^2 and 3^2, maybe
"chi-squared" makes
> the most sense,.
>
> The "chi-square"? Because the iterated dentals in
"chi-squared
> distribution" and "chi-squared test" are a little cumbersome
to pronounce,
> an even slightly lazy pronunciation would sound like "chi-square
> distribution" and "chi-square test". There's no need to
write it that way
> though.
>
> -Dan
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 2:28 PM Richard M. Heiberger <rmh at
temple.edu> wrote:
>
> > What a delightful question.  Bill Cochran discussed this in class
> > one day about 50 years ago.  He said the British usage (which I think
> > he said was chi-squared,
> > as is consistent with the other memories in this thread)
> > is what he learned and previously used.  But he had been in the US for
> > so long that he was now using
> > the American preference (chi-square).
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 8:51 AM Martin Maechler
> > <maechler at stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote:
> > >
> > > As it's Friday ..
> > >
> > > and I also really want to clean up help files and similar R
documents,
> > > both in R's own sources and in my new 'DPQ' CRAN
package :
> > >
> > > As a trained mathematician, I'm uneasy if a thing has
> > > several easily confusable names, .. but as somewhat
> > > humanistically educated person, I know that natural languages,
> > > English in this case, are much more flexible than computer
> > > languages or math...
> > >
> > > Anyway, back to the question(s) .. which I had asked myself a
> > > couple of months ago, and already remained slightly undecided:
> > >
> > > The 0-th (meta-)question of course is
> > >
> > >   0. Is it worth using only one written form for the
> > >      ?? - distribution, e.g. "everywhere" in R?
> > >
> > > The answer is not obvious, as already the first few words of the
> > > (English) Wikipedia clearly convey:
> > >
> > > The URL is 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi-squared_distribution
> > > and the main title therefore also
> > >     "Chi-squared distribution"
> > >
> > > Then it reads
> > >
> > > > This article is about the mathematics of the chi-squared
> > > > distribution. For its uses in statistics, see chi-squared
> > > > test. For the music [...]
> > >
> > > > In probability theory and statistics, the chi-square
> > > > distribution (also chi-squared or ?2-distribution) with k
> > > > degrees of freedom is the distribution of a sum of the
squares
> > > > of k independent standard normal random variables.
> > >
> > > > The chi-square distribution is a special case of the gamma
> > > > distribution and is one of the most widely used probability
> > > > distributions in inferential statistics, notably in
hypothesis
> > > > testing [........]
> > > > [........]
> > >
> > > So, in title and 1st paragraph its "chi-squared", but
then
> > > everywhere(?) the text used "chi-square".
> > >
> > > Undoubtedly, Wilson & Hilferty (1931) has been an important
> > > paper and they use "Chi-square" in the title;
> > > also  Johnson, Kotz & Balakrishnan (1995)
> > > see R's help page ?pchisq use  "Chi-square" in the
title of
> > > chapter 18 and then, diplomatically for chapter 29,
> > >  "Noncentral ??-Distributions" as title.
> > >
> > > So it seems, that historically and using prestigious sources,
> > > "chi-square" to dominate (notably if we do not count
"??" as an
> > > alternative).
> > >
> > > Things look a bit different when I study R's sources; on one
> > > hand, I find all 4 forms (s.Subject); then in the "R source
> > > history", I see
> > >
> > >   $ svn log -c11342
> > >
> > 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >   r11342 | <....> | 2000-11-14 ...
> > >
> > >   Use `chi-squared'.
> > >
> > 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > which changed 16 (if I counted correctly) cases of
'chi-square' to
> > 'chi-squared'.
> > >
> > > I have not found any R-core internal (or public) reasoning about
> > > that change, but had kept it in mind and often worked along that
"goal".
> > >
> > > As a consequence, "statistically" speaking, much of
R's own use has been
> > > standardized to use "chi-squared"; but as I mentioned,
I still
> > > find all  4  variants even in "R base" package help
files
> > > (which of course I now could quite quickly change  (using Emacs
M-x
> > grep, plus a script);
> > > but
> > >
> > > ... "as it is Friday" ... I'm interested to hear
what others
> > > think, notably if you are native English (or "American"
;-)
> > > speaking and/or have some extra good knowledge on such
> > > matters...
> > >
> > > Martin Maechler
> > > ETH Zurich
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more,
see
> > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > > PLEASE do read the posting guide
> > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> > > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible
code.
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > PLEASE do read the posting guide
> > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
> >
>
>
> --
> Dan Dalthorp, PhD
> USGS Forest and Rangeland Ecosystem Science Center
> Forest Sciences Lab, Rm 311
> 3200 SW Jefferson Way
> Corvallis, OR 97331
> ph: 541-750-0953
> ddalthorp at usgs.gov
>
>         [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 15:25:59 -0700
"Dalthorp, Daniel via R-help" <r-help at r-project.org> wrote:
> I'd like to see the statistics on it before jumping to a conclusion
> that the American preference is "chi-square" and the British
> preference is "chi-squared".
One way to get some data on this would be to count Scopus hits for
various usages in articles with different affiliations, with a query
like this:

{<usage #1>}
AND PUBYEAR > 1980
AND AFFILCOUNTRY(<country #1>)
AND NOT (
 AFFILCOUNTRY(<country #2>)
 OR {<usage #2>} OR {<usage #3>} OR {<usage #4>}
)

The year cutoff is here to show only the "modern usage" (the trends
look the same whether I leave it in or not). Intersections (papers with
authors from both countries and/or using more than one form) are a
minority and don't seem to reverse any trends, either. Here are the
results:

              UK    US
chi-square  4666 30159
chi-squared 1374  4798
chi square   769  3844
chi squared  142   197

"chi-square" seems to be the most popular form.

-- 
Best regards,
Ivan

Interesting!

Both UK and US show quite a bit more "square" than "squared"
in your
sample, with maybe an even stronger tendency for "square" in US than
in UK.

I like "squared" better because it fits better with standard English
pronunciation of, say, \sigma^2 or x^2 or r^2.




On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 9:46 AM Ivan Krylov <krylov.r00t at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 15:25:59 -0700
> "Dalthorp, Daniel via R-help" <r-help at r-project.org>
wrote:
>
> > I'd like to see the statistics on it before jumping to a
conclusion
> > that the American preference is "chi-square" and the British
> > preference is "chi-squared".
>
> One way to get some data on this would be to count Scopus hits for
> various usages in articles with different affiliations, with a query
> like this:
>
> {<usage #1>}
> AND PUBYEAR > 1980
> AND AFFILCOUNTRY(<country #1>)
> AND NOT (
>  AFFILCOUNTRY(<country #2>)
>  OR {<usage #2>} OR {<usage #3>} OR {<usage #4>}
> )
>
> The year cutoff is here to show only the "modern usage" (the
trends
> look the same whether I leave it in or not). Intersections (papers with
> authors from both countries and/or using more than one form) are a
> minority and don't seem to reverse any trends, either. Here are the
> results:
>
>               UK    US
> chi-square  4666 30159
> chi-squared 1374  4798
> chi square   769  3844
> chi squared  142   197
>
> "chi-square" seems to be the most popular form.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Ivan
>

-- 
Dan Dalthorp, PhD
USGS Forest and Rangeland Ecosystem Science Center
Forest Sciences Lab, Rm 311
3200 SW Jefferson Way
Corvallis, OR 97331
ph: 541-750-0953
ddalthorp at usgs.gov

	[[alternative HTML version deleted]]