>>>>> Herv? Pag?s
>>>>> on Fri, 22 Sep 2023 16:55:05 -0700 writes:
> The problem is that you have things that are
> **semantically** different but look exactly the same:
> They look the same:
>> x
> [1] NA
>> y
> [1] NA
>> z
> [1] NA
>> is.na(x)
> [1] TRUE
>> is.na(y)
> [1] TRUE
>> is.na(z)
> [1] TRUE
>> str(x)
> ?cplx NA
>> str(y)
> ?num NA
>> str(z)
> ?cplx NA
> but they are semantically different e.g.
>> Re(x)
> [1] NA
>> Re(y)
> [1] -0.5? # surprise!
>> Im(x)? # surprise!
> [1] 2
>> Im(z)
> [1] NA
> so any expression involving Re() or Im() will produce
> different results on input that look the same on the
> surface.
> You can address this either by normalizing the internal
> representation of complex NA to always be complex(r=NaN,
> i=NA_real_), like for NA_complex_, or by allowing the
> infinite variations that are currently allowed and at the
> same time making sure that both Re() and Im()? always
> return NA_real_ on a complex NA.
> My point is that the behavior of complex NA should be
> predictable. Right now it's not. Once it's predictable
> (with Re() and Im() both returning NA_real_ regardless of
> internal representation), then it no longer matters what
> kind of complex NA is returned by as.complex(NA_real_),
> because they are no onger distinguishable.
> H.
> On 9/22/23 13:43, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
>> Since the result of is.na(x) is the same on each of
>> those, I don't see a problem.? As long as that is
>> consistent, I don't see a problem. You shouldn't be using
>> any other test for NA-ness.? You should never be
>> expecting identical() to treat different types as the
>> same (e.g. identical(NA, NA_real_) is FALSE, as it
>> should be).? If you are using a different test, that's
>> user error.
>>
>> Duncan Murdoch
>>
>> On 22/09/2023 2:41 p.m., Herv? Pag?s wrote:
>>> We could also question the value of having an infinite
>>> number of NA representations in the complex space. For
>>> example all these complex values are displayed the same
>>> way (as NA), are considered NAs by is.na(), but are not
>>> identical or semantically equivalent (from an Re() or
>>> Im() point of view):
>>>
>>> ? ??? NA_real_ + 0i
>>>
>>> ? ??? complex(r=NA_real_, i=Inf)
>>>
>>> ? ??? complex(r=2, i=NA_real_)
>>>
>>> ? ??? complex(r=NaN, i=NA_real_)
>>>
>>> In other words, using a single representation for
>>> complex NA (i.e. complex(r=NA_real_, i=NA_real_)) would
>>> avoid a lot of unnecessary complications and surprises.
>>>
>>> Once you do that, whether as.complex(NA_real_) should
>>> return complex(r=NA_real_, i=0) or complex(r=NA_real_,
>>> i=NA_real_) becomes a moot point.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> H.
Thank you, Herv?.
Your proposition is yet another one,
to declare that all complex NA's should be treated as identical
(almost/fully?) everywhere.
This would be a possibility, but I think a drastic one.
I think there are too many cases, where I want to keep the
information of the real part independent of the values of the
imaginary part (e.g. think of the Riemann hypothesis), and
typically vice versa.
With your proposal, for a (potentially large) vector of complex numbers,
after
Re(z) <- 1/2
I could no longer rely on Re(z) == 1/2,
because it would be wrong for those z where (the imaginary part/ the number)
was NA/NaN.
Also, in a similar case, a
Im(z) <- NA
would have to "destroy" all real parts Re(z);
not really typically in memory, but effectively for the user, Re(z)
would be all NA/NaN.
And I think there are quite a few other situations
where looking at Re() and Im() separately makes a lot of sense.
Spencer also made a remark in this direction.
All in all I'd be very reluctant to move in this direction;
but yes, I'm just one person ... let's continue musing and
considering !
Martin
>>> On 9/22/23 03:38, Martin Maechler wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Mikael Jagan ????? on Thu, 21 Sep 2023
00:47:39
>>>>>>>>> -0400 writes:
>>>> ????? > Revisiting this thread from April:
>>>>
>>>>
>https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2023-April/082545.html
>>>>
>>>> ????? > where the decision (not yet backported) was
>>>> made for ????? > as.complex(NA_real_) to give
>>>> NA_complex_ instead of ????? > complex(r=NA_real_,
>>>> i=0), to be consistent with ????? >
help("as.complex")
>>>> and as.complex(NA) and as.complex(NA_integer_).
>>>>
>>>> ????? > Was any consideration given to the alternative?
>>>> ????? > That is, to changing as.complex(NA) and
>>>> as.complex(NA_integer_) to ????? > give
>>>> complex(r=NA_real_, i=0), consistent with ????? >
>>>> as.complex(NA_real_), then amending
help("as.complex")
>>>> ????? > accordingly?
>>>>
>>>> Hmm, as, from R-core, mostly I was involved, I admit to
>>>> say "no", to my knowledge the (above) alternative
>>>> wasn't considered.
>>>>
>>>> ??? > The principle that ??? >
>>>> Im(as.complex(<real=(double|integer|logical)>))
should
>>>> be zero ??? > is quite fundamental, in my view, hence
>>>> the "new" behaviour ??? > seems to really
violate the
>>>> principle of least surprise ...
>>>>
>>>> of course "least surprise"? is somewhat
subjective.?
>>>> Still, I clearly agree that the above would be one
>>>> desirable property.
>>>>
>>>> I think that any solution will lead to *some* surprise
>>>> for some cases, I think primarily because there are
>>>> *many* different values z? for which? is.na(z)? is
>>>> true,? and in any case NA_complex_? is only of the
>>>> many.
>>>>
>>>> I also agree with Mikael that we should reconsider the
>>>> issue that was raised by Davis Vaughan here ("on
>>>> R-devel") last April.
>>>>
>>>> ????? > Another (but maybe weaker) argument is that
>>>> ????? > double->complex coercions happen more often
>>>> than ????? > logical->complex and integer->complex
>>>> ones. Changing the ????? > behaviour of the more
>>>> frequently performed coercion is ????? > more likely to
>>>> affect code "out there".
>>>>
>>>> ????? > Yet another argument is that one expects
>>>>
>>>> ????? >????? identical(as.complex(NA_real_), NA_real_ +
>>>> (0+0i))
>>>>
>>>> ????? > to be TRUE, i.e., that coercing from double to
>>>> complex is ????? > equivalent to adding a complex
>>>> zero.? The new behaviour ????? > makes the above FALSE,
>>>> since NA_real_ + (0+0i) gives ????? >
>>>> complex(r=NA_real_, i=0).
>>>>
>>>> No!? --- To my own surprise (!) --- in current R-devel
>>>> the above is TRUE, and ??????? NA_real_ + (0+0i)? , the
>>>> same as ??????? NA_real_ + 0i????? , really gives?
>>>> complex(r=NA, i=NA) :
>>>>
>>>> Using showC() from ?complex
>>>>
>>>> ??? showC <- function(z) noquote(sprintf("(R = %g,
I >>>> %g)", Re(z), Im(z)))
>>>>
>>>> we see (in R-devel) quite consistently
>>>>
>>>>> showC(NA_real_ + 0i)
>>>> [1] (R = NA, I = NA)
>>>>> showC(NA?????? + 0i)? # NA is 'logical'
>>>> [1] (R = NA, I = NA) where as in R 4.3.1 and
>>>> "R-patched" -- *in*consistently
>>>>
>>>>> showC(NA_real_ + 0i)
>>>> [1] (R = NA, I = 0)
>>>>> showC(NA + 0i)
>>>> [1] (R = NA, I = NA) .... and honestly, I do not see
>>>> *where* (and when) we changed the underlying code (in
>>>> arithmetic.c !?)? in R-devel to *also* produce?
>>>> NA_complex_? in such complex *arithmetic*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ????? > Having said that, one might also (but more
>>>> naively) expect
>>>>
>>>> ????? >????
>>>> identical(as.complex(as.double(NA_complex_)),
>>>> NA_complex_)
>>>>
>>>> ????? > to be TRUE.
>>>>
>>>> as in current R-devel
>>>>
>>>> ????? > Under my proposal it continues to be FALSE.
>>>>
>>>> as in "R-release"
>>>>
>>>> ????? > Well, I'd prefer if it gave FALSE with a
>>>> warning ????? > "imaginary parts discarded in
>>>> coercion", but it seems that ????? >
>>>> as.double(complex(r=a, i=b)) never warns when either of
>>>> ????? > 'a' and 'b' is NA_real_ or NaN,
even where
>>>> "information" ????? > {nonzero 'b'} is
clearly lost ...
>>>>
>>>> The question of *warning* here is related indeed, but I
>>>> think we should try to look at it only *secondary* to
>>>> your first proposal.
>>>>
>>>> ????? > Whatever decision is made about
>>>> as.complex(NA_real_), ????? > maybe these points should
>>>> be weighed before it becomes part of ????? > R-release
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> ????? > Mikael
>>>>
>>>> Indeed.
>>>>
>>>> Can we please get other opinions / ideas here?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you in advance for your thoughts! Martin
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>> PS:
>>>>
>>>> ?? Our *print()*ing? of complex NA's ("NA"
here meaning
>>>> NA or NaN) ?? is also unsatisfactory, e.g. in the case
>>>> where all entries of a ?? vector are NA in the sense of
>>>> is.na(.), but their ?? Re() and Im() are not all NA: ??
>>>> ??? showC <- function(z) noquote(sprintf("(R = %g,
I >>>> %g)", Re(z), Im(z))) ??? z <- complex(, c(11, NA,
NA),
>>>> c(NA, 99, NA)) ??? z ??? showC(z)
>>>>
>>>> gives
>>>>
>>>> ??? > z ??? [1] NA NA NA ??? > showC(z) ??? [1] (R
>>>> 11, I = NA) (R = NA, I = 99) (R = NA, I = NA)
>>>>
>>>> but that (printing of complex) *is* another issue, in
>>>> which we have the re-opened bugzilla PR#16752 ?????
>>>> ==>https://bugs.r-project.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16752
>>>>
>>>> on which we also worked during the R Sprint in Warwick
>>>> three weeks ago, and where I want to commit changes in
>>>> any case {but think we should change even a bit more
>>>> than we got to during the Sprint}.
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> R-devel at r-project.org? mailing list
>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
>>>
>>
> --
> Herv? Pag?s
> Bioconductor Core Team hpages.on.github at gmail.com