R devel - Jul 2021 - Feature request: Change default library path on Windows

On 25/07/2021 9:54 a.m., Steve Haroz wrote:
>> Shouldn't it be in one of the AppData directories?
> 
> I asked that same question on twitter. Here was a response
> (https://twitter.com/bmwiernik/status/1419033079495147522):
> * But it's not for files that should be user-accessible, like a
> library (cf. Zotero has preferences in AppData , but library files in
> %USERPROFILE%/Zotero)
> * So, for example, in R's case it could make sense for the core
> packages to be installed in %APPDATA%/R/R-4.1.0/library" rather than
> "C:/Program Files/R/R-4.1.0/library" (either is fairly common),
but
> user packages should be somewhere more accessible.
> 
> Here is a quote from
>
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/design/app-settings/store-and-retrieve-app-data:
> "App data is mutable data that is created and managed by a specific
> app. It includes runtime state, app settings, user preferences,
> reference content (such as the dictionary definitions in a dictionary
> app), and other settings"
> I don't think libraries fall into the categories of state or settings.
I saw that link, and like you and Gabe, found it somewhat ambiguous.

I don't know bmwiernik, but from the sound of it, he doesn't speak for 
Microsoft.

So I would say that I still believe Microsoft doesn't give clear 
guidance for this.  Yes, %USERPROFILE%/R has some non-Microsoft 
precedents, but that's irrelevant.  This is an issue to take up with MS, 
not with R.  Let them describe *clearly* what they want, and R will 
(eventually) do it (but probably not before they've changed their clear 
guidance).

Duncan Murdoch

P.S. I am a former member of R Core who did Windows support.  I now 
detest that OS.  I suspect nobody who is still on R Core doesn't detest it.

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 5:56 PM Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at
gmail.com>
wrote:
> On 25/07/2021 9:54 a.m., Steve Haroz wrote:
> >> Shouldn't it be in one of the AppData directories?
> >
> > I asked that same question on twitter. Here was a response
> > (https://twitter.com/bmwiernik/status/1419033079495147522):
> > * But it's not for files that should be user-accessible, like a
> > library (cf. Zotero has preferences in AppData , but library files in
> > %USERPROFILE%/Zotero)
> > * So, for example, in R's case it could make sense for the core
> > packages to be installed in %APPDATA%/R/R-4.1.0/library" rather
than
> > "C:/Program Files/R/R-4.1.0/library" (either is fairly
common), but
> > user packages should be somewhere more accessible.
> >
> > Here is a quote from
> >
>
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/design/app-settings/store-and-retrieve-app-data
> :
> > "App data is mutable data that is created and managed by a
specific
> > app. It includes runtime state, app settings, user preferences,
> > reference content (such as the dictionary definitions in a dictionary
> > app), and other settings"
> > I don't think libraries fall into the categories of state or
settings.
>
> I saw that link, and like you and Gabe, found it somewhat ambiguous.
>
> I don't know bmwiernik, but from the sound of it, he doesn't speak
for
> Microsoft.
>
> So I would say that I still believe Microsoft doesn't give clear
> guidance for this.  Yes, %USERPROFILE%/R has some non-Microsoft
> precedents, but that's irrelevant.  This is an issue to take up with
MS,
> not with R.  Let them describe *clearly* what they want, and R will
> (eventually) do it (but probably not before they've changed their clear
> guidance).
>
> Duncan Murdoch
>
> P.S. I am a former member of R Core who did Windows support.  I now
> detest that OS.  I suspect nobody who is still on R Core doesn't detest
it.


I remember well and greatly appreciate your work, Dr. Murdoch. As someone
whose R work must be almost exclusively on Windows due to the nature of my
employment, I want to once again show appreciation to the members of R Core
and others, specifically Drs. Liggs and Tierney, and Jeroen Oomes, Dirk
Eddelbuttel, and the many others who continue to support R for Windows.

Avi
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile

	[[alternative HTML version deleted]]

> So I would say that I still believe Microsoft doesn't give clear
> guidance for this.
Sure, there is some ambiguity on where MS would prefer these kinds of
files. But what is clear is that the current location USER/Documents
is causing a serious issue.

And while we can all understand frustration with Microsoft, Windows
users represent a major proportion of the R install base. So let's see
what we can do to help out those users. Changing the default location
to either USER/R or USER/AppData/Local/R would help a lot of users,
both beginners and those with moderate experience who switch to a new
cloud backup.

Microsoft is unlikely to put out new guidance any time soon. And the
current guidance doesn't seem opposed to putting R libraries in either
suggested location. So how about we just pick one (I suggest USER/R
for simplicity) and discuss how to go about making the change?

-Steve