Thanks, Duncan. That answers my question fairly definitively.
Although it can be DONE it likely won't be for the reasons Hadley mentioned
until we get some other product that replaces it entirely. There are some
interesting work-arounds mentioned.
I was thinking of one that has overhead but might be a pain. Hadley mentioned a
slight variant. The first argument to a function now is expected to be the data
argument. The second might be the mapping. Now if the function is called with a
new first argument that is a ggplot object, it could be possible to test the
type and if it is a ggplot object than slide over carefully any additional
matched arguments that were not explicitly named. Not sure that is at all easy
to do.
Alternately, you can ask that when used in such a pipeline that the user call
all other arguments using names like data=whatever, mapping=aes(whatever) so no
other args need to be adjusted by position.
But all this is academic and I concede will likely not be done. I can live with
the plus signs.
-----Original Message-----
From: Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 2:50 PM
To: Avi Gross <avigross at verizon.net>; 'r-devel' <r-devel at
r-project.org>
Subject: Re: [Rd] New pipe operator and gg plotz
Hadley's answer (#7 here:
https://community.rstudio.com/t/why-cant-ggplot2-use/4372) makes it pretty clear
that he thinks it would have been nice now if he had made that choice when
ggplot2 came out, but it's not worth the effort now to change it.
Duncan Murdoch
On 06/12/2020 2:34 p.m., Avi Gross via R-devel wrote:> As someone who switches back and forth between using standard R methods and
those of the tidyverse, depending on the problem, my mood and whether Jupiter
aligns with Saturn in the new age of Aquarius, I have a question about the
forthcoming built-in pipe. Will it motivate anyone to eventually change or
enhance the ggplot functionality to have a version that gets rid of the odd use
of the addition symbol?
>
> I mean I now sometimes have a pipeline that looks like:
>
> Data %>%
> Do_this %>%
> Do_that(whatever) %>%
> ggplot(...) +
> geom_whatever(...) +
> ...
>
> My understanding is this is a bit of a historical anomaly that might
someday be modified back.
>
> As I understand it, the call to ggplot() creates a partially filled-in
object that holds all kinds of useful info. The additional calls to geom_point()
and so on will add/change that hidden object. Nothing much happens till the
object is implicitly or explicitly given to print() which switches to the print
function for objects of that type and creates a graph based on the contents of
the object at that time. So, in theory, you could have a pipelined version of
ggplot where the first function accepts something like a data.frame or tibble
as the default first argument and at the end returns the object we have been
describing. All additional functions would then accept such an object as the
(hidden?) first argument and return the modified object. The final function in
the pipe would either have the value captured in a variable for later use or
print implicitly generating a graph.
>
> So the above silly example might become:
>
> Data %>%
> Do_this %>%
> Do_that(whatever) %>%
> ggplot(...) %>%
> geom_whatever(...) %>%
> ...
>
> Or, am I missing something here?
>
> The language and extensions such as are now in the tidyverse might be more
streamlined and easier to read when using consistent notation. If we now build a
reasonable version of the pipeline in, might we encourage other uses to
gradually migrate back closer to the mainstream?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: R-devel <r-devel-bounces at r-project.org> On Behalf Of Rui
> Barradas
> Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 2:51 AM
> To: Gregory Warnes <greg at warnes.net>; Abby Spurdle
> <spurdle.a at gmail.com>
> Cc: r-devel <r-devel at r-project.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rd] New pipe operator
>
> Hello,
>
> If Hilbert liked beer, I like "pipe".
>
> More seriously, a new addition like this one is going to cause problems yet
unknown. But it's a good idea to have a pipe operator available. As someone
used to magrittr's data pipelines, I will play with this base one before
making up my mind. I don't expect its behavior to be exactly like magrittr
"%>%" (and it's not). For the moment all I can say is that it
is something R users are used to and that it now avoids loading a package.
> As for the new way to define anonymous functions, I am less sure. Too much
syntatic sugar? Or am I finding the syntax ugly?
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Rui Barradas
>
>
> ?s 03:22 de 06/12/20, Gregory Warnes escreveu:
>> If we?re being mathematically pedantic, the ?pipe? operator is
>> actually function composition > That being said, pipes are a simple
>> and well-known idiom. While being less
>> than mathematically exact, it seems a reasonable label for the (very
>> useful) behavior.
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020 at 9:43 PM Abby Spurdle <spurdle.a at
gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> This is a good addition
>>>
>>> I can't understand why so many people are calling this a
"pipe".
>>> Pipes connect processes, via their I/O streams.
>>> Arguably, a more general interpretation would include sockets and
files.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipeline_(Unix)
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Named_pipe
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_pipe
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, the magrittr-like operators are functions
(not
>>> pipes), with nonstandard syntax.
>>> This is not consistent with R's original design philosophy,
building
>>> on C, Lisp and S, along with lots of *important* math and stats.
>>>
>>> It's possible that some parties are interested in creating a
kind of
>>> "data pipeline".
>>> I'm interested in this myself, and I think we could discuss
this more.
>>> But I'm not convinced the magrittr-like operators help to
achieve
>>> this goal.
>>> Which, in my opinion, would require one to model programs as
>>> directed graphs, along with some degree of asynchronous input.
>>>
>>> Presumably, these operators will be added to R anyway, and (almost)
>>> no one will listen to me.
>>>
>>> So, I would like to make one suggestion:
>>> Is it possible for these operators to *not* be named:
>>> The R Pipe
>>> The S Pipe
>>> Or anything with a similar meaning.
>>>
>>> Maybe tidy pipe, or something else that links it to its proponents?
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> R-devel at r-project.org mailing list
>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
>>>
>
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