Who decides what features are in R and how they are implemented? If there is someone here who has that authority I have this request: A report() function analogous to the plot() function that makes it easy to generate a report from a table of data. This should not be in some auxiliary package, but part of the core R just like plot(). As a long time SAS user I cannot believe R does not have this. Please don't give me any crap about Sweave, LaTex, and the "power" of R to roll your own. You don't have to "roll your own" plot do you? Reports are no different. If you don't agree do not bother me. If you agree then please bring this request to the appropriate authorities for consideration or tell me how to do it. Thanks. [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
The *user* decides. That would be YOU. Unlike SAS no one has a responsibility to YOU to implement some random request. Packages are how things are implemented. And to continue a previous thread ... maybe you should RTFM. Jeff On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Donald Winston <satchwinston at yahoo.com> wrote:> Who decides what features are in R and how they are implemented? If there is someone here who has that authority I have this request: > > A report() function analogous to the plot() function that makes it easy to generate a report from a table of data. This should not be in some auxiliary package, but part of the core R just like plot(). As a long time SAS user I cannot believe R does not have this. Please don't give me any crap about Sweave, LaTex, and the "power" of R to roll your own. You don't have to "roll your own" plot do you? Reports are no different. If you don't agree do not bother me. If you agree then please bring this request to the appropriate authorities for consideration or tell me how to do it. > > Thanks. > ? ? ? ?[[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > ______________________________________________ > R-devel at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel >-- Jeffrey Ryan jeff.a.ryan at gmail.com
On 21 August 2010 at 11:41, Donald Winston wrote: | Who decides what features are in R and how they are implemented? If there is someone here who has that authority I have this request: | | A report() function analogous to the plot() function that makes it easy to | generate a report from a table of data. This should not be in some | auxiliary package, but part of the core R just like plot(). As a long time | SAS user I cannot believe R does not have this. Please don't give me any | crap about Sweave, LaTex, and the "power" of R to roll your own. You don't | have to "roll your own" plot do you? Reports are no different. If you don't | agree do not bother me. If you agree then please bring this request to the | appropriate authorities for consideration or tell me how to do it. I usually write them on a small note and put them under my pillow. Dirk -- Dirk Eddelbuettel | edd at debian.org | http://dirk.eddelbuettel.com
> A report() function analogous to the plot() function that makes it easy to generate a report from a table of data. This should not be in some auxiliary package, but part of the core R just like plot(). As a long time SAS user I cannot believe R does not have this. Please don't give me any crap about Sweave, LaTex, and the "power" of R to roll your own. You don't have to "roll your own" plot do you? Reports are no different. If you don't agree do not bother me. If you agree then please bring this request to the appropriate authorities for consideration or tell me how to do it.I know it's frustrating when a program doesn't do what you want to do, and I agree with you that R's reporting capabilities are not (yet) as easy to use as SAS (although they can be more powerful and flexible). You may have noticed that when you downloaded R that you didn't have to pay anyone any money to use it - this has both advantages and disadvantages. The advantage are obvious (it's free!), but a disadvantage is that no-one is funded to work on R full time. This means that most contributors to R (even the core developers!) work on R either as part of another job or in their free time, and so usually work on the aspects of statistics and data analysis that most interest them. If you want a core developer to work on something, you either need to get them interested in your problem or find money to buy some of their time. Another disadvantage from your perspective is that while SAS is a business and therefore cares (at least a tiny amount) about your business, R does not. Everyone who provides help on R-help does so out of the goodness of their heart, not because they get paid. Replies can sometimes be rather irascible, and even rude, and while I personally don't like the lack of manners, you still get far more than what you pay for. At the end of the day, if R doesn't meet your needs, why not continue using SAS? Hadley -- Assistant Professor / Dobelman Family Junior Chair Department of Statistics / Rice University http://had.co.nz/
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Donald Winston <satchwinston at yahoo.com> wrote:> Who decides what features are in R and how they are implemented? If there is someone here who has that authority I have this request: > > A report() function analogous to the plot() function that makes it easy to generate a report from a table of data. This should not be in some auxiliary package, but part of the core R just like plot(). As a long time SAS user I cannot believe R does not have this. Please don't give me any crap about Sweave, LaTex, and the "power" of R to roll your own. You don't have to "roll your own" plot do you? Reports are no different. If you don't agree do not bother me. If you agree then please bring this request to the appropriate authorities for consideration or tell me how to do it.Okay Donald, let's do this. Together. Because only you seem to know what you want in this report() function. Can you spell out the sort of tables of data that report() will take, what other options it will have and so on, and what its output will be. It is quite possible someone out there will go "Yeah, I can do that", and have a go, especially if they also go "Yeah, I could *use* that too". If you really want it done, then you can pay money. So, spec please. From your earlier postings it sounds like not much more than summary(d) and a few table(d) outputs. Barry
Donald Paul Winston wrote:> > Who decides what features are in R and how they are implemented? If there > is someone here who has that authority I have this request: > > A report() function analogous to the plot() function that makes it easy to > generate a report from a table of data. This should not be in some > auxiliary package, but part of the core R just like plot(). As a long time > SAS user I cannot believe R does not have this. Please don't give me any > crap about Sweave, LaTex, and the "power" of R to roll your own. You don't > have to "roll your own" plot do you? Reports are no different. If you > don't agree do not bother me. If you agree then please bring this request > to the appropriate authorities for consideration or tell me how to do it. >Well, I can think of three ways it can go down: 1. You want a shiny new pony. You ask about it on the mailing list and it seems that everyone else in the world responds "Hell yeah! I want to ride that too!". In this case the natives are restless enough that someone on R-Core may personally implement the feature- especially if they want to ride the pony as well. In this case, you need to provide a detailed specification of what kind of pony you want, how it should be groomed and the exact pitch at which you want it to whinny. A good template for such as spec would be a Python Enhancement Proposal (PEP) which is the way community-suggested core changes are implemented in python. An example is: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0389/ However, going this route is extremely rare. You have to have a significant amount of the user community rallying behind your idea and buy-in from core developers who are interested in implementing and, most importantly, maintaining and supporting the code. 2. You want a shiny new pony but not many other people in the word seem interested. In this situation you can do the work yourself, or with a group of other like-minded pony enthusiasts, to bring your idea into the world. Perhaps the genetic material you are looking for is already present in the vast herds of other ponies running wild on CRAN and elsewhere and you just have to do a little breeding to get what you want. Other times, the only way to do right is to write everything from scratch. Either way, in the end you will have a pony that shines exactly the way you want it to that you can enjoy for the rest of your life. In this case, getting your new pony into R Core is unlikely. The best response you can hope for is something along the lines of "That is a mighty fine pony you have there, but we really don't want it crapping all over our stable". They are not trying to be rude- the facts of life are that the members of R Core have a limited amount of time and a lot of other ponies to clean up after. Add to that the fact that shoveling pony shit is a thankless job that does not pay well and it is understandable why R Core may be conservative about the number of ponies they let into the official stable. However, they will be more than happy to provide your pony with a stall at CRAN so that everyone else in the world can take it out for a spin. I have never had a problem with installing and using packages from CRAN, even on windows machines that have been locked down and then shot in both kneecaps by the friendly neighborhood IT gestapo. All and all, this option is actually a pretty sweet deal; you will just have to drop by the CRAN stall every once and a while and deal with the pony droppings yourself or people will start to avoid it because of the smell. 3. You want a shiny new pony, but dont have the time or energy to pick out or put together the exact one you want. In this case, you can still get the pony you want but it will cost you money. There are R programmers out there who can write you a package if you pay them the right price. Supporting your local grad student population can also work; hunger is a great motivator. In the end you can also pay a corporate pony breeder like SAS for a trusty thoroughbred that is well respected by people in high places. However, you may notice that these ponies bear some telltale signs of inbreeding-- one of their eyes may not point in the same direction as the other or the pony becomes confused easily when put in an unfamiliar situation. Given there is not a lot you can do about these defects, you may suffer a crippling case of buyers remorse especially when you see the bill. Ok, I think i've thoroughly beat this horse analogy to death and I'm going to stop now. -Charlie ----- Charlie Sharpsteen Undergraduate-- Environmental Resources Engineering Humboldt State University -- View this message in context: http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/How-do-you-make-a-formal-feature-request-tp2333593p2333737.html Sent from the R devel mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I use the summary function. Being unfamiliar with the SAS report function, it is difficult to answer more completely. jim On Aug 21, 2010, at 8:41 AM, Donald Winston wrote:> Who decides what features are in R and how they are implemented? If there is someone here who has that authority I have this request: > > A report() function analogous to the plot() function that makes it easy to generate a report from a table of data. This should not be in some auxiliary package, but part of the core R just like plot(). As a long time SAS user I cannot believe R does not have this. Please don't give me any crap about Sweave, LaTex, and the "power" of R to roll your own. You don't have to "roll your own" plot do you? Reports are no different. If you don't agree do not bother me. If you agree then please bring this request to the appropriate authorities for consideration or tell me how to do it. > > Thanks. > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > ______________________________________________ > R-devel at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
On Sat, 2010-08-21 at 11:41 -0400, Donald Winston wrote:> Who decides what features are in R and how they are implemented? If > there is someone here who has that authority I have this request:The R Core Development Team decide on what goes into the base R source code. You have almost zero chance of getting such a thing in base R. I say that for several reasons; i) You haven't provided any code to implement report() or provided a good description of what you would like implemented, ii) R Core like to keep the base source code a small as possible to limit the maintenance burden on themselves, iii) R has the package mechanism so you or anyone else can add whatever features you want to R, have it hosted on CRAN and be available to any R user at the click of a button, iv) your attitude stinks! I could go on, but I feel I'm just feeding a troll at this point. I look forward to seeing your report package implementing a report() function on CRAN in the near future. There are several manuals written which document how to write extensions to the R environment, numerous books on programming in R and several example reporting systems that we've mentioned to you. Check out the R website for these. Learn some R, do some reading, examine those systems that do exist then roll your own function and let us all benefit. I won't hold my breath of course. Whiners are not often doers... Good luck! G> A report() function analogous to the plot() function that makes it > easy to generate a report from a table of data. This should not be in > some auxiliary package, but part of the core R just like plot(). As a > long time SAS user I cannot believe R does not have this. Please don't > give me any crap about Sweave, LaTex, and the "power" of R to roll > your own. You don't have to "roll your own" plot do you? Reports are > no different. If you don't agree do not bother me. If you agree then > please bring this request to the appropriate authorities for > consideration or tell me how to do it. > > Thanks. > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > ______________________________________________ > R-devel at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel-- %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% Dr. Gavin Simpson [t] +44 (0)20 7679 0522 ECRC, UCL Geography, [f] +44 (0)20 7679 0565 Pearson Building, [e] gavin.simpsonATNOSPAMucl.ac.uk Gower Street, London [w] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucfagls/ UK. WC1E 6BT. [w] http://www.freshwaters.org.uk %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%
I can claim some responsibility for 3 sets of functions that are in "core R", well they are in packages, but then so is the plot function, but packages that are loaded automatically in a default installation of R. My piece of the responsibility is probably more the blame than credit (the credit goes to the R Core members who implemented the actual functions), but I will tell you the process, maybe it will work for you as well. In my case, all the functions started with me writing my own version of the function(s) and putting them into one of my packages. This included actual working code that did the basics of what I wanted and help pages detailing the goal/intent of the function(s) along with examples showing what it should do. Others started using some of these functions as well until they came to the attention of a member of the R core group. The fact that my functions were being used (or similar functionality) showed that there was interest beyond myself, the help pages showed clearly what was desired and the examples showed how it should work. But in each of those cases (I have many other functions that have not inspired anything in core R, but are still useful in my packages) there was something about my code or implementation that the R come member saw could be improved (a phrase along the lines of "ugliest I've seen" was used in one case) and generally in less than a week from when the discussion started, there was a new function or functions in R-devel that did what my original functions tried to do, only better. In one case the R core function did everything that I had stated in the help file, ran all the examples correctly, but did not do one of the other things that I had tried privately, but never publicized (no bug, it did what the help page said, ran all my public examples). A bit later I presented the other situation and asked if it could be expanded to do that as well, and in just a few days the R-devel version (now in the regular version) worked for the new example as well. So, here is a success story of what you are trying to accomplish, I think the key elements were/are: Show that you are willing to put in some effort Clear documentation of what you want the function(s) to do Examples Enough usability that others use or are interested as well Hope this helps, -- Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D. Statistical Data Center Intermountain Healthcare greg.snow at imail.org 801.408.8111> -----Original Message----- > From: r-devel-bounces at r-project.org [mailto:r-devel-bounces at r- > project.org] On Behalf Of Donald Winston > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:41 AM > To: R Devel List > Subject: [Rd] How do you make a formal "feature" request? > > Who decides what features are in R and how they are implemented? If > there is someone here who has that authority I have this request: > > A report() function analogous to the plot() function that makes it easy > to generate a report from a table of data. This should not be in some > auxiliary package, but part of the core R just like plot(). As a long > time SAS user I cannot believe R does not have this. Please don't give > me any crap about Sweave, LaTex, and the "power" of R to roll your own. > You don't have to "roll your own" plot do you? Reports are no > different. If you don't agree do not bother me. If you agree then > please bring this request to the appropriate authorities for > consideration or tell me how to do it. > > Thanks. > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > ______________________________________________ > R-devel at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Donald Winston <satchwinston at yahoo.com> wrote:> Who decides what features are in R and how they are implemented? If there is someone here who has that authority I have this request: > > A report() function analogous to the plot() function that makes it easy to generate a report from a table of data. This should not be in some auxiliary package, but part of the core R just like plot(). As a long time SAS user I cannot believe R does not have this. Please don't give me any crap about Sweave, LaTex, and the "power" of R to roll your own. You don't have to "roll your own" plot do you? Reports are no different. If you don't agree do not bother me. If you agree then please bring this request to the appropriate authorities for consideration or tell me how to do it. > > Thanks. > ? ? ? ?[[alternative HTML version deleted]]Dear Donald: I've wondered about your question about "how do things get into R." It seems to me the tone of your post pissed people off and they are giving you some abuse. By telling you to write it yourself, they are expressing their frustration toward you. Really, though, you have only yourself to blame for that. You treat the readers like your employees. I think the nicer answer might go along these lines. 1. I recently suggested code to patch R in this list and one of the readers pointed me to this note in R-FAQ, which seems to be about as close as you are going to get to a "request". "There is a section of the bug repository for suggestions for enhancements for R labelled ?wishlist?. Suggestions can be submitted in the same ways as bugs, but please ensure that the subject line makes clear that this is for the wishlist and not a bug report, for example by starting with ?Wishlist:?. " 2. How do you suppose plot got into R? Somebody volunteered it, it worked nicely, and many people have improved and perfected it over the years. If you could give us a working version of "report", the same might happen. 3. I hate SAS report. You should too. It stinks. We don't need that. It is for boneheads. You don't even tell us what is good about report or give us an example. Or a link to an example. 4. In the R family, there are many functions like report that you should try. Please note the function "summary" is supplied by almost all modeling tools. It is supposed to do roughly what you want. Does it have too much information or too little? There are several ways to beautify that output. Try xtable. It can make html or LaTeX. I wonder if the memisc package function mtable does what you want. It collects up a bunch of regressions for you in a nice looking table? I've found very useful. I don't know what your objection is against LaTeX, incidentally. Similar tables can be created with packages. Hmisc and apsrtable Good luck, next time don't tell us to go to hell when you ask your question. pj -- Paul E. Johnson Professor, Political Science 1541 Lilac Lane, Room 504 University of Kansas