Hi Folks, As you may have seen by the last thread I have been playing with QEMU pretty much for my own personal VPN connectivity. On the other hand we are starting to look at virtualizing some of our Dev and UAT environments to save on HW costs. One of the other Architects on my Team owns the project and he has been focused on running VMWare using RH Linux for both the Host and Guest Operating Systems. Stanford is a Solaris/Linux/Oracle shop so the virtual environments will need to be Oracle RH Linux that will support an Oracle install. Right now with this project there is the chance to better promote Solaris x86 and QEMU if there were strong underlying technical reasons why running Solarisx86 + QEMU might prove a better solution than RH Linux + VMWare. So all you OpenSolaris/QEMU Gurus out there, any chance you folks could rattle off any Pros (or cons) why OpenSolaris + QEMU might be as good or better than the Linux + VMWare? The "OpenSolaris" BrandZ stuff sounds interesting too! I wonder if BrandZ could run an Oracle stack? Anyway if you folks want to help promote these technologies the more ammunition you can provide the better! I have always been a Solaris fan even back before I worked at Sun and still am trying to leverage it whenever possible! Thanks! Tom
briglia at stanford.edu said:> On the other hand we are starting to look at virtualizing some of our Dev > and UAT environments to save on HW costs. One of the other Architects on my > Team owns the project and he has been focused on running VMWare using RH > Linux for both the Host and Guest Operating Systems. > > Stanford is a Solaris/Linux/Oracle shop so the virtual environments will > need to be Oracle RH Linux that will support an Oracle install.Why not run Oracle on Solaris-x86 directly? We recently consolidated three racks of old SPARC servers, hosting 6 small instances of Oracle, onto a single Sun X4200, with each Oracle instance in its own zone. The DBA''s say performance is faster. Sorry QEMU isn''t involved, but why run six separate OS instances, each kernel taking up its own slice of RAM and disk space, each requiring separate patching and maintenance, when you can do it with a single OS? Solaris OS is free (even the regular Solaris-10 release, not only Open Solaris) -- Red Hat EL is not free, even to EDU''s. Red Hat doesn''t have ZFS yet, either. Regards, Marion
Hi Marion, Hmmm as far as I knew Oracle is not porting all of their stuff to Solaris x86 and are heavily dug into RH Linux. In fact as you may know they have their own Distro of "Oracle Unbreakable RH Linux". This is what Oracle basically wants everyone to run their products on and which is why I did not think they were going to support much of their tech stack on Solaris x86. Please correct me if I am wrong though! So you are saying that the X4200 you have is x86 based and you are running Oracle on Solaris x86? Are you running just the Oracle RDBMS or the whole Application Stack (ie: 11i)? As for why the separate instances/environments, like I said this is for our Dev and UAT instances. We have roughy 150 Prod Servers so that means we could easily use 300 separate Dev or UAT environments. By going "Virtual" we could easily scale down our hardware and host those 300 environments on 100 physical servers each one hosting 3 qemu or vmware environments. "Virtual" is definitely the trend lately. We probably will not run Prod environments on virtual hosts yet Dev and UAT will work fine. Thx! Tom Marion Hakanson wrote:>briglia at stanford.edu said: > > >>On the other hand we are starting to look at virtualizing some of our Dev >>and UAT environments to save on HW costs. One of the other Architects on my >>Team owns the project and he has been focused on running VMWare using RH >>Linux for both the Host and Guest Operating Systems. >> >>Stanford is a Solaris/Linux/Oracle shop so the virtual environments will >>need to be Oracle RH Linux that will support an Oracle install. >> >> > >Why not run Oracle on Solaris-x86 directly? We recently consolidated >three racks of old SPARC servers, hosting 6 small instances of Oracle, >onto a single Sun X4200, with each Oracle instance in its own zone. >The DBA''s say performance is faster. > >Sorry QEMU isn''t involved, but why run six separate OS instances, each >kernel taking up its own slice of RAM and disk space, each requiring >separate patching and maintenance, when you can do it with a single OS? >Solaris OS is free (even the regular Solaris-10 release, not only Open >Solaris) -- Red Hat EL is not free, even to EDU''s. Red Hat doesn''t >have ZFS yet, either. > >Regards, > >Marion > > > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/qemu-discuss/attachments/20071031/cec2a54a/attachment.html>
---- "Thomas D. Briglia" <briglia at stanford.edu> wrote:> Hi Folks, > > As you may have seen by the last thread I have been playing with QEMU > pretty much for my own personal VPN connectivity.I think I remember something about Cisco, and I remember several months ago getting the current vpn code working with OpenSolaris (Solaris 10 needed a new version of libgcrypt).> On the other hand we are starting to look at virtualizing some of our > Dev and UAT environments to save on HW costs. One of the other > Architects on my Team owns the project and he has been focused on > running VMWare using RH Linux for both the Host and Guest Operating Systems.Why wouldn''t you use linux branded zones in Solaris 10?> Stanford is a Solaris/Linux/Oracle shop so the virtual environments will > need to be Oracle RH Linux that will support an Oracle install.so that should still work in a branded zone, right?> Right now with this project there is the chance to better promote > Solaris x86 and QEMU if there were strong underlying technical reasons > why running Solarisx86 + QEMU might prove a better solution than RH > Linux + VMWare.I''d think branded zones, then QEMU + Solaris X86...> So all you OpenSolaris/QEMU Gurus out there, any chance you folks could > rattle off any Pros (or cons) why OpenSolaris + QEMU might be as good or > better than the Linux + VMWare?You probably need to do a bake off to really understand those issues for yourself. Personally, I think you are betting off hosting with Solaris x86 than Redhat.> > The "OpenSolaris" BrandZ stuff sounds interesting too! I wonder if > BrandZ could run an Oracle stack?Haven''t heard any case that it *cant*.> Anyway if you folks want to help promote these technologies the more > ammunition you can provide the better! I have always been a Solaris fan > even back before I worked at Sun and still am trying to leverage it > whenever possible!I''ve been using qemu + kqemu for 6 months and think it has done admirably well. Ben
Hi Ben, Thanks for the feedback! I will definitely look into the BrandZ stuff with Zones, that looks very interesting! So WRT running stuff like the Cisco VPN using BrandZ, the VPN on both Solaris and Linux is basically a Kernel Module. So can you run apps using BrandZ where there is reliance on a Kernel Module being loaded and available? Thx! Tom Ben Taylor wrote:>---- "Thomas D. Briglia" <briglia at stanford.edu> wrote: > > >>Hi Folks, >> >>As you may have seen by the last thread I have been playing with QEMU >>pretty much for my own personal VPN connectivity. >> >> > >I think I remember something about Cisco, and I remember several months >ago getting the current vpn code working with OpenSolaris (Solaris 10 needed >a new version of libgcrypt). > > > >>On the other hand we are starting to look at virtualizing some of our >>Dev and UAT environments to save on HW costs. One of the other >>Architects on my Team owns the project and he has been focused on >>running VMWare using RH Linux for both the Host and Guest Operating Systems. >> >> > >Why wouldn''t you use linux branded zones in Solaris 10? > > > > >>Stanford is a Solaris/Linux/Oracle shop so the virtual environments will >>need to be Oracle RH Linux that will support an Oracle install. >> >> > >so that should still work in a branded zone, right? > > > >>Right now with this project there is the chance to better promote >>Solaris x86 and QEMU if there were strong underlying technical reasons >>why running Solarisx86 + QEMU might prove a better solution than RH >>Linux + VMWare. >> >> > >I''d think branded zones, then QEMU + Solaris X86... > > > >>So all you OpenSolaris/QEMU Gurus out there, any chance you folks could >>rattle off any Pros (or cons) why OpenSolaris + QEMU might be as good or >>better than the Linux + VMWare? >> >> > >You probably need to do a bake off to really understand those issues for >yourself. Personally, I think you are betting off hosting with Solaris x86 >than Redhat. > > > >>The "OpenSolaris" BrandZ stuff sounds interesting too! I wonder if >>BrandZ could run an Oracle stack? >> >> > >Haven''t heard any case that it *cant*. > > > >>Anyway if you folks want to help promote these technologies the more >>ammunition you can provide the better! I have always been a Solaris fan >>even back before I worked at Sun and still am trying to leverage it >>whenever possible! >> >> > >I''ve been using qemu + kqemu for 6 months and think it has done >admirably well. > >Ben > >
---- "Thomas D. Briglia" <briglia at stanford.edu> wrote:> Hi Ben, > > Thanks for the feedback! I will definitely look into the BrandZ stuff > with Zones, that looks very interesting!It''s probably less overhead if it will work.> So WRT running stuff like the Cisco VPN using BrandZ, the VPN on both > Solaris and Linux is basically a Kernel Module.AFAIK, yes. However, I''m not sure about being able to load kernel modules from BrandZ. I haven''t tried anything like that. Have you tried the freeware VPN software? If you''re familiar with it, getting it compiled was pretty easy on Solaris once I figured out i needed an updated libgcrypt, but couldn''t effecitvely test it without a VPN host.> So can you run apps > using BrandZ where there is reliance on a Kernel Module being loaded and > available?see above. You''d probably need QEMU and a Bridge to make that work. Regards, Ben> > Thx! > > Tom > > Ben Taylor wrote: > > >---- "Thomas D. Briglia" <briglia at stanford.edu> wrote: > > > > > >>Hi Folks, > >> > >>As you may have seen by the last thread I have been playing with QEMU > >>pretty much for my own personal VPN connectivity. > >> > >> > > > >I think I remember something about Cisco, and I remember several months > >ago getting the current vpn code working with OpenSolaris (Solaris 10 needed > >a new version of libgcrypt). > > > > > > > >>On the other hand we are starting to look at virtualizing some of our > >>Dev and UAT environments to save on HW costs. One of the other > >>Architects on my Team owns the project and he has been focused on > >>running VMWare using RH Linux for both the Host and Guest Operating Systems. > >> > >> > > > >Why wouldn''t you use linux branded zones in Solaris 10? > > > > > > > > > >>Stanford is a Solaris/Linux/Oracle shop so the virtual environments will > >>need to be Oracle RH Linux that will support an Oracle install. > >> > >> > > > >so that should still work in a branded zone, right? > > > > > > > >>Right now with this project there is the chance to better promote > >>Solaris x86 and QEMU if there were strong underlying technical reasons > >>why running Solarisx86 + QEMU might prove a better solution than RH > >>Linux + VMWare. > >> > >> > > > >I''d think branded zones, then QEMU + Solaris X86... > > > > > > > >>So all you OpenSolaris/QEMU Gurus out there, any chance you folks could > >>rattle off any Pros (or cons) why OpenSolaris + QEMU might be as good or > >>better than the Linux + VMWare? > >> > >> > > > >You probably need to do a bake off to really understand those issues for > >yourself. Personally, I think you are betting off hosting with Solaris x86 > >than Redhat. > > > > > > > >>The "OpenSolaris" BrandZ stuff sounds interesting too! I wonder if > >>BrandZ could run an Oracle stack? > >> > >> > > > >Haven''t heard any case that it *cant*. > > > > > > > >>Anyway if you folks want to help promote these technologies the more > >>ammunition you can provide the better! I have always been a Solaris fan > >>even back before I worked at Sun and still am trying to leverage it > >>whenever possible! > >> > >> > > > >I''ve been using qemu + kqemu for 6 months and think it has done > >admirably well. > > > >Ben > > > > >
On Fri 11/02/07 at 08:49 AM, briglia at stanford.edu wrote:> Hi Ben, > > Thanks for the feedback! I will definitely look into the BrandZ stuff > with Zones, that looks very interesting! > > So WRT running stuff like the Cisco VPN using BrandZ, the VPN on both > Solaris and Linux is basically a Kernel Module. So can you run apps > using BrandZ where there is reliance on a Kernel Module being loaded and > available?No. BrandZ supports user-space Linux applications only. You are running on top of the Solaris kernel, so you cannot load Linux kernel modules. Nils
Thanks Nils! This is exactly what I had initially thought after reading the BrandZ background info yet was not sure after multiple people suggested using it. Regards, Tom Nils Nieuwejaar wrote:>On Fri 11/02/07 at 08:49 AM, briglia at stanford.edu wrote: > > >>Hi Ben, >> >>Thanks for the feedback! I will definitely look into the BrandZ stuff >>with Zones, that looks very interesting! >> >>So WRT running stuff like the Cisco VPN using BrandZ, the VPN on both >>Solaris and Linux is basically a Kernel Module. So can you run apps >>using BrandZ where there is reliance on a Kernel Module being loaded and >>available? >> >> > >No. BrandZ supports user-space Linux applications only. You are running >on top of the Solaris kernel, so you cannot load Linux kernel modules. > >Nils > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/qemu-discuss/attachments/20071105/b15ce614/attachment.html>
Thanks for your comments on vpnc! I did try to compile that stuff a few weeks ago on Sol10 x86 yet remembered it crapped out during the compile and I thought I might be heading up a deadend if I opted to roll my sleeves up and brute force or hack the compile somehow! I thought I might have tried the libcrypt solution myself yet cannot remember. I''ll take another look when I fire my laptop up later. Thx! Tom Ben Taylor wrote:>---- "Thomas D. Briglia" <briglia at stanford.edu> wrote: > > >>Hi Ben, >> >>Thanks for the feedback! I will definitely look into the BrandZ stuff >>with Zones, that looks very interesting! >> >> > >It''s probably less overhead if it will work. > > > >>So WRT running stuff like the Cisco VPN using BrandZ, the VPN on both >>Solaris and Linux is basically a Kernel Module. >> >> > >AFAIK, yes. However, I''m not sure about being able to load kernel >modules from BrandZ. I haven''t tried anything like that. > >Have you tried the freeware VPN software? If you''re familiar with it, >getting it compiled was pretty easy on Solaris once I figured out i >needed an updated libgcrypt, but couldn''t effecitvely test it without >a VPN host. > > > > >>So can you run apps >>using BrandZ where there is reliance on a Kernel Module being loaded and >>available? >> >> > >see above. You''d probably need QEMU and a Bridge to make that work. > >Regards, > >Ben > > > >>Thx! >> >>Tom >> >>Ben Taylor wrote: >> >> >> >>>---- "Thomas D. Briglia" <briglia at stanford.edu> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hi Folks, >>>> >>>>As you may have seen by the last thread I have been playing with QEMU >>>>pretty much for my own personal VPN connectivity. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I think I remember something about Cisco, and I remember several months >>>ago getting the current vpn code working with OpenSolaris (Solaris 10 needed >>>a new version of libgcrypt). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>On the other hand we are starting to look at virtualizing some of our >>>>Dev and UAT environments to save on HW costs. One of the other >>>>Architects on my Team owns the project and he has been focused on >>>>running VMWare using RH Linux for both the Host and Guest Operating Systems. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Why wouldn''t you use linux branded zones in Solaris 10? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Stanford is a Solaris/Linux/Oracle shop so the virtual environments will >>>>need to be Oracle RH Linux that will support an Oracle install. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>so that should still work in a branded zone, right? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Right now with this project there is the chance to better promote >>>>Solaris x86 and QEMU if there were strong underlying technical reasons >>>>why running Solarisx86 + QEMU might prove a better solution than RH >>>>Linux + VMWare. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I''d think branded zones, then QEMU + Solaris X86... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>So all you OpenSolaris/QEMU Gurus out there, any chance you folks could >>>>rattle off any Pros (or cons) why OpenSolaris + QEMU might be as good or >>>>better than the Linux + VMWare? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>You probably need to do a bake off to really understand those issues for >>>yourself. Personally, I think you are betting off hosting with Solaris x86 >>>than Redhat. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>The "OpenSolaris" BrandZ stuff sounds interesting too! I wonder if >>>>BrandZ could run an Oracle stack? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Haven''t heard any case that it *cant*. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Anyway if you folks want to help promote these technologies the more >>>>ammunition you can provide the better! I have always been a Solaris fan >>>>even back before I worked at Sun and still am trying to leverage it >>>>whenever possible! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I''ve been using qemu + kqemu for 6 months and think it has done >>>admirably well. >>> >>>Ben >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >
---- "Thomas D. Briglia" <briglia at stanford.edu> wrote:> > Thanks for your comments on vpnc! > > I did try to compile that stuff a few weeks ago on Sol10 x86 yet > remembered it crapped out during the compile and I thought I might be > heading up a deadend if I opted to roll my sleeves up and brute force or > hack the compile somehow! > > I thought I might have tried the libcrypt solution myself yet cannot > remember. I''ll take another look when I fire my laptop up later.Cool. I was able to get it compiled using the latest libgcrypt from blastwave (well, sometime in the spring anyway). If you have success getting it working, I''m sure a lot of folks would be interested in knowing that it does work. Ben> > Thx! > > Tom > > > Ben Taylor wrote: > > >---- "Thomas D. Briglia" <briglia at stanford.edu> wrote: > > > > > >>Hi Ben, > >> > >>Thanks for the feedback! I will definitely look into the BrandZ stuff > >>with Zones, that looks very interesting! > >> > >> > > > >It''s probably less overhead if it will work. > > > > > > > >>So WRT running stuff like the Cisco VPN using BrandZ, the VPN on both > >>Solaris and Linux is basically a Kernel Module. > >> > >> > > > >AFAIK, yes. However, I''m not sure about being able to load kernel > >modules from BrandZ. I haven''t tried anything like that. > > > >Have you tried the freeware VPN software? If you''re familiar with it, > >getting it compiled was pretty easy on Solaris once I figured out i > >needed an updated libgcrypt, but couldn''t effecitvely test it without > >a VPN host. > > > > > > > > > >>So can you run apps > >>using BrandZ where there is reliance on a Kernel Module being loaded and > >>available? > >> > >> > > > >see above. You''d probably need QEMU and a Bridge to make that work. > > > >Regards, > > > >Ben > > > > > > > >>Thx! > >> > >>Tom > >> > >>Ben Taylor wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>---- "Thomas D. Briglia" <briglia at stanford.edu> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Hi Folks, > >>>> > >>>>As you may have seen by the last thread I have been playing with QEMU > >>>>pretty much for my own personal VPN connectivity. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>I think I remember something about Cisco, and I remember several months > >>>ago getting the current vpn code working with OpenSolaris (Solaris 10 needed > >>>a new version of libgcrypt). > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>On the other hand we are starting to look at virtualizing some of our > >>>>Dev and UAT environments to save on HW costs. One of the other > >>>>Architects on my Team owns the project and he has been focused on > >>>>running VMWare using RH Linux for both the Host and Guest Operating Systems. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>Why wouldn''t you use linux branded zones in Solaris 10? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Stanford is a Solaris/Linux/Oracle shop so the virtual environments will > >>>>need to be Oracle RH Linux that will support an Oracle install. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>so that should still work in a branded zone, right? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Right now with this project there is the chance to better promote > >>>>Solaris x86 and QEMU if there were strong underlying technical reasons > >>>>why running Solarisx86 + QEMU might prove a better solution than RH > >>>>Linux + VMWare. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>I''d think branded zones, then QEMU + Solaris X86... > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>So all you OpenSolaris/QEMU Gurus out there, any chance you folks could > >>>>rattle off any Pros (or cons) why OpenSolaris + QEMU might be as good or > >>>>better than the Linux + VMWare? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>You probably need to do a bake off to really understand those issues for > >>>yourself. Personally, I think you are betting off hosting with Solaris x86 > >>>than Redhat. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>The "OpenSolaris" BrandZ stuff sounds interesting too! I wonder if > >>>>BrandZ could run an Oracle stack? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>Haven''t heard any case that it *cant*. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Anyway if you folks want to help promote these technologies the more > >>>>ammunition you can provide the better! I have always been a Solaris fan > >>>>even back before I worked at Sun and still am trying to leverage it > >>>>whenever possible! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>I''ve been using qemu + kqemu for 6 months and think it has done > >>>admirably well. > >>> > >>>Ben > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > >