Puppet users - Dec 2012 - Puppet module restart puppet client or not?

Hi,

I''ve built a puppet module myself to manage puppet.conf and I use a 
subscribe for the service, so it restarts the client whenever puppet.conf 
changes.  I think I shouldn''t but I''d like to have a
confirmation.  The
fact that foreman sees a failure upon a change in puppet.conf makes me 
think even more that I am wrong...

Thanks,

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On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Ugo Bellavance <ugob@lubik.ca> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I''ve built a puppet module myself to manage puppet.conf and I use
a
> subscribe for the service, so it restarts the client whenever puppet.conf
> changes.  I think I shouldn''t but I''d like to have a
confirmation.
The fact that foreman sees a failure upon a change in puppet.conf makes
me
> think even more that I am wrong...

If the service was successfully restarted, it should register as a
successful change. That''s normal behavior. Is that not what you see?

>
> Thanks,
>
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-- 
Ryan Coleman | Modules & Forge | @ryanycoleman | ryancoleman in #puppet

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On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 6:13:41 PM UTC-5, Ryan Coleman
wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Ugo Bellavance
<ug...@lubik.ca<javascript:>
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I''ve built a puppet module myself to manage puppet.conf and I
use a
>> subscribe for the service, so it restarts the client whenever
puppet.conf
>> changes.  I think I shouldn''t but I''d like to have a
confirmation.
>
> The fact that foreman sees a failure upon a change in puppet.conf makes me 
>> think even more that I am wrong...
>
>
> If the service was successfully restarted, it should register as a 
> successful change. That''s normal behavior. Is that not what you
see?
>
> Makes sense, but I think Foreman may have a way to determine whether the 
report is Applied, Restarted, Failed, Restart Failure, Skipped or Pending. 
 Maybe it shows Failed because it doesn''t see the "Finished
catalog run in
0.64 seconds" at the end?  I guess maybe I should ask to the Foreman group,
but I was mostly wondering whether it was a good idea or not to restart 
puppet when changing puppet.conf.

Thanks,

Ugo

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On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Ugo Bellavance <ugob@lubik.ca> wrote:
> I guess maybe I should ask to the Foreman group,
> but I was mostly wondering whether it was a good idea or not to restart
> puppet when changing puppet.conf.
I think it would be a bad idea not to.  Otherwise you''ve got a process
running under a different configuration than what is on disk, so when
it doesn''t look like it''s behaving like the config suggests it
should,
it can cause a lot of head-scratching!

Note the advice in the thread at
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/puppet-users/LViZFxc5ZAE/2yWRRixDoOQJ
though, about how to get puppet to successfully restart the agent!

Regards,

Matt.

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On Thursday, December 13, 2012 5:43:14 AM UTC-5, Matthew Burgess
wrote:
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 12:41 AM, Ugo Bellavance
<ug...@lubik.ca<javascript:>>
> wrote: 
>
> > I guess maybe I should ask to the Foreman group, 
> > but I was mostly wondering whether it was a good idea or not to
restart
> > puppet when changing puppet.conf. 
>
> I think it would be a bad idea not to.  Otherwise you''ve got a
process
> running under a different configuration than what is on disk, so when 
> it doesn''t look like it''s behaving like the config
suggests it should,
> it can cause a lot of head-scratching! 
>
>
That rises two questions in my mind:


   1. In my understanding, puppetmaster catches any changes in the 
   manifests without needing a restart, why can''t the puppet client
reload its
   puppet.conf parameters at the next run?
   2. Why puppet can''t use the "reload" option of most
current daemons''
   init scripts?  I think there should be a parameter "hasreload",
similar to
   "hasrestart", saying that the init script supports the use of the
"reload"
   argument.  This would avoid this kind of problem, and people
wouldn''t have
   to redefine the restart command.

Ugo

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On Thursday, December 13, 2012 4:03:20 PM UTC-8, Ugo Bellavance
wrote:
>
>
> That rises two questions in my mind:
>
>
>    1. In my understanding, puppetmaster catches any changes in the 
>    manifests without needing a restart, why can''t the puppet
client reload its
>    puppet.conf parameters at the next run?
>
>
There''s a pretty big distinction between the puppetmaster watching 
-manifests- that it uses and watching/changing -config settings- : the 
first one is pretty safe (controlled by the `filetimeout` setting and 
mostly works), the second is pretty perilous when running in a monolithic 
long-lived ruby process. 

There is a lot of tangled stuff around puppet early bootstrapping and 
initialization that is a major focus of work for the upcoming 3.1 
release: http://projects.puppetlabs.com/versions/288  but even if after 
that''s cleared up, the edge cases are pretty brutal -- For example if
the
value (or heck, the contents) of $libdir changes and new versions of 
plugins are available, they can''t be reliably reloaded into the same
ruby
process.  See stuff like http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/4248#note-29 
 , and the long list of related issues 
on http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/7316 . 

IMO this is the biggest drawback to long-running puppet daemon processes 
compared to periodic instantiation via cron / god / daemontools /etc: you 
just cannot be confident that the interpreter state is actually going to 
reinitialize cleanly if something big changes underneath it.
 
>
>    1. Why puppet can''t use the "reload" option of most
current daemons''
>    init scripts?  I think there should be a parameter
"hasreload", similar to
>    "hasrestart", saying that the init script supports the use of
the "reload"
>    argument.  This would avoid this kind of problem, and people
wouldn''t have
>    to redefine the restart command.
>
> Look back through some of the prior discussions on this topic; I can 
understand the desire but previous discussions have raised some legitimate 
issues that nobody''s code so far has addressed --

http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/1014  (!!)
http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/3323

Looks like the most recent state of play was Daniel Pittman''s proposal 
here: http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/3323#note-14
which seems nice & clean (add support for `hasrestart => graceful`). 

eric0

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