Puppet users - Aug 2011 - exported resources and templating

Greetings,

I''m having an issue with my implementation of exported resources.  I
have a memcache server pool, and want to update the /etc/php.d/
memcache.ini with the ips of all the servers. Previously, I hard coded
the $memcacheservers array in the node manifest and the template
collected and populated the template.

Now that I''m moving to exported resouces, how do I get it to set an
array in a way I can access it from a different scope?  I tried moving
the file { "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini": content => template(memcache/
memcache.ini.erb) to the resource function (I understand exported
resources shoulld not define other resources), but it only populates
the first server collected, and complains about a duplicate resource
if I have more than 1 exported server.

I''ve tried defining the resource without the content the first time,
then override the define with the content, but that only picks up the
2nd server.  I''ve tried accessing the variable that gets populated
after the Memcache::Servers <<| |>> but it doesn''t get
populated in
this scope.  I''ve tried looking up the
scope.lookupvar(''memcached::servers::memcacheservers'') but the
exported resource is a define not a class and I couldn''t get it to
work.  I''ve tried just using a script to populate the file with the
proper contents, but there is no way to ensure it is filled with all
the servers,  for example the script is executed out of order,
replaced 3 times if there are 3 servers, and may contain 1, 2, or 3
servers after a puppet run.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

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On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 6:11 AM, puppetlurker
<under.my.control@gmail.com> wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I''m having an issue with my implementation of exported resources.
 I
> have a memcache server pool, and want to update the /etc/php.d/
> memcache.ini with the ips of all the servers. Previously, I hard coded
> the $memcacheservers array in the node manifest and the template
> collected and populated the template.
>
> Now that I''m moving to exported resouces, how do I get it to set
an
> array in a way I can access it from a different scope?  I tried moving
> the file { "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini": content =>
template(memcache/
> memcache.ini.erb) to the resource function (I understand exported
> resources shoulld not define other resources), but it only populates
> the first server collected, and complains about a duplicate resource
> if I have more than 1 exported server.
>
> I''ve tried defining the resource without the content the first
time,
> then override the define with the content, but that only picks up the
> 2nd server.  I''ve tried accessing the variable that gets populated
> after the Memcache::Servers <<| |>> but it doesn''t get
populated in
> this scope.  I''ve tried looking up the
> scope.lookupvar(''memcached::servers::memcacheservers'')
but the
> exported resource is a define not a class and I couldn''t get it to
> work.  I''ve tried just using a script to populate the file with
the
> proper contents, but there is no way to ensure it is filled with all
> the servers,  for example the script is executed out of order,
> replaced 3 times if there are 3 servers, and may contain 1, 2, or 3
> servers after a puppet run.
>
> Any suggestions?
I was looking at a similar issue where I need to export data, not
resource, and be able to lookup the data. It just happens that Dan has
published a prototype along the line of what you are looking for:
https://github.com/puppetlabs/puppetlabs-nodesearch

Thanks,

Nan

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This looks promising! I should be able to create a fact on some
servers, then collect those servers in a template. I''m going to
upgrade to test this out.

Thanks,

puppetlurker

On Aug 22, 10:45 am, Nan Liu <n...@puppetlabs.com>
wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 6:11 AM, puppetlurker
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <under.my.cont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Greetings,
>
> > I''m having an issue with my implementation of exported
resources.  I
> > have a memcache server pool, and want to update the /etc/php.d/
> > memcache.ini with the ips of all the servers. Previously, I hard coded
> > the $memcacheservers array in the node manifest and the template
> > collected and populated the template.
>
> > Now that I''m moving to exported resouces, how do I get it to
set an
> > array in a way I can access it from a different scope?  I tried moving
> > the file { "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini": content =>
template(memcache/
> > memcache.ini.erb) to the resource function (I understand exported
> > resources shoulld not define other resources), but it only populates
> > the first server collected, and complains about a duplicate resource
> > if I have more than 1 exported server.
>
> > I''ve tried defining the resource without the content the
first time,
> > then override the define with the content, but that only picks up the
> > 2nd server.  I''ve tried accessing the variable that gets
populated
> > after the Memcache::Servers <<| |>> but it
doesn''t get populated in
> > this scope.  I''ve tried looking up the
> >
scope.lookupvar(''memcached::servers::memcacheservers'') but the
> > exported resource is a define not a class and I couldn''t get
it to
> > work.  I''ve tried just using a script to populate the file
with the
> > proper contents, but there is no way to ensure it is filled with all
> > the servers,  for example the script is executed out of order,
> > replaced 3 times if there are 3 servers, and may contain 1, 2, or 3
> > servers after a puppet run.
>
> > Any suggestions?
>
> I was looking at a similar issue where I need to export data, not
> resource, and be able to lookup the data. It just happens that Dan has
> published a prototype along the line of what you are looking
for:https://github.com/puppetlabs/puppetlabs-nodesearch
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nan
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On Aug 22, 8:11 am, puppetlurker <under.my.cont...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I''m having an issue with my implementation of exported resources.
 I
> have a memcache server pool, and want to update the /etc/php.d/
> memcache.ini with the ips of all the servers. Previously, I hard coded
> the $memcacheservers array in the node manifest and the template
> collected and populated the template.
>
> Now that I''m moving to exported resouces, how do I get it to set
an
> array in a way I can access it from a different scope?  I tried moving
> the file { "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini": content =>
template(memcache/
> memcache.ini.erb) to the resource function (I understand exported
> resources shoulld not define other resources), but it only populates
> the first server collected, and complains about a duplicate resource
> if I have more than 1 exported server.
>
> I''ve tried defining the resource without the content the first
time,
> then override the define with the content, but that only picks up the
> 2nd server.  I''ve tried accessing the variable that gets populated
> after the Memcache::Servers <<| |>> but it doesn''t get
populated in
> this scope.  I''ve tried looking up the
> scope.lookupvar(''memcached::servers::memcacheservers'')
but the
> exported resource is a define not a class and I couldn''t get it to
> work.  I''ve tried just using a script to populate the file with
the
> proper contents, but there is no way to ensure it is filled with all
> the servers,  for example the script is executed out of order,
> replaced 3 times if there are 3 servers, and may contain 1, 2, or 3
> servers after a puppet run.
>
> Any suggestions?

The way to do this with exported resources is for each node to export
a resource containing its own information only.  The trick is choosing
the resource to use for this.

The simplest case would be if "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini" supports some
kind of ''include'' directive, especially if it understands
globs.  Then
each server can export its own (distinctly-named) file intended for
inclusion, and the node(s) that collect them need only to put the
appropriate ''include'' directive(s) into the main memcache.ini.

Alternatively, there is a module available that provides for building
files from fragments.  Your server could export fragment resources of
the type defined by that module, and the node(s) that collect them
would use them to build the memcache.ini file.

Remember: an exported resource is one that you make available for
other nodes to include in their catalogs, as if they were declared in
those nodes'' own manifests.  All the normal rules apply in the context
where they are collected.  In particular, name and title uniqueness is
still required, but for exported resources you may get lost resource
data instead of Puppet errors when there are name collisions.


John

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Hmmm.  I upgraded, but when running a test I get:

/usr/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.8/rubygems/custom_require.rb:31:in
`gem_original_require'': no such file to load -- puppet/rails/resources
(MissingSourceFile)

# puppet help hostname
err: no such file to load -- puppet/rails/resources

There are:

/usr/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.8/puppet/parser/resource
/usr/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.8/puppet/parser/resource.rb

but no resources.  I''m think I''m up to date with ruby:
 ruby -v
ruby 1.8.6 (2007-09-24 patchlevel 111) [x86_64-linux]

Is there an updated puppet gem that I am missing?

Thanks again.


On Aug 22, 10:45 am, Nan Liu <n...@puppetlabs.com>
wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 6:11 AM, puppetlurker
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <under.my.cont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Greetings,
>
> > I''m having an issue with my implementation of exported
resources.  I
> > have a memcache server pool, and want to update the /etc/php.d/
> > memcache.ini with the ips of all the servers. Previously, I hard coded
> > the $memcacheservers array in the node manifest and the template
> > collected and populated the template.
>
> > Now that I''m moving to exported resouces, how do I get it to
set an
> > array in a way I can access it from a different scope?  I tried moving
> > the file { "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini": content =>
template(memcache/
> > memcache.ini.erb) to the resource function (I understand exported
> > resources shoulld not define other resources), but it only populates
> > the first server collected, and complains about a duplicate resource
> > if I have more than 1 exported server.
>
> > I''ve tried defining the resource without the content the
first time,
> > then override the define with the content, but that only picks up the
> > 2nd server.  I''ve tried accessing the variable that gets
populated
> > after the Memcache::Servers <<| |>> but it
doesn''t get populated in
> > this scope.  I''ve tried looking up the
> >
scope.lookupvar(''memcached::servers::memcacheservers'') but the
> > exported resource is a define not a class and I couldn''t get
it to
> > work.  I''ve tried just using a script to populate the file
with the
> > proper contents, but there is no way to ensure it is filled with all
> > the servers,  for example the script is executed out of order,
> > replaced 3 times if there are 3 servers, and may contain 1, 2, or 3
> > servers after a puppet run.
>
> > Any suggestions?
>
> I was looking at a similar issue where I need to export data, not
> resource, and be able to lookup the data. It just happens that Dan has
> published a prototype along the line of what you are looking
for:https://github.com/puppetlabs/puppetlabs-nodesearch
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nan
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On Aug 23, 9:21 am, jcbollinger <John.Bollin...@stJude.org> wrote:
> The way to do this with exported resources is for each node to export
> a resource containing its own information only.  The trick is choosing
> the resource to use for this.
>
> The simplest case would be if "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini" supports
some
> kind of ''include'' directive, especially if it understands
globs.  Then
> each server can export its own (distinctly-named) file intended for
> inclusion, and the node(s) that collect them need only to put the
> appropriate ''include'' directive(s) into the main
memcache.ini.
>
Yes, but I don''t think I can do that in all my cases. This one ini
file is part of a collection of files that need to be updated and I
think all I need to do is to get all the right servers in one array
all the templates can use.
> Alternatively, there is a module available that provides for building
> files from fragments.  Your server could export fragment resources of
> the type defined by that module, and the node(s) that collect them
> would use them to build the memcache.ini file.
>
Which module would this be? I would like to read up on it and check it
out.

> John


Thanks, John.

puppetlurker

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Nevermind, I found it: 
http://projects.puppetlabs.com/projects/puppet/wiki/Generating_a_config_file_from_fragments


On Aug 23, 9:21 am, jcbollinger <John.Bollin...@stJude.org>
wrote:
> On Aug 22, 8:11 am, puppetlurker <under.my.cont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Greetings,
>
> > I''m having an issue with my implementation of exported
resources.  I
> > have a memcache server pool, and want to update the /etc/php.d/
> > memcache.ini with the ips of all the servers. Previously, I hard coded
> > the $memcacheservers array in the node manifest and the template
> > collected and populated the template.
>
> > Now that I''m moving to exported resouces, how do I get it to
set an
> > array in a way I can access it from a different scope?  I tried moving
> > the file { "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini": content =>
template(memcache/
> > memcache.ini.erb) to the resource function (I understand exported
> > resources shoulld not define other resources), but it only populates
> > the first server collected, and complains about a duplicate resource
> > if I have more than 1 exported server.
>
> > I''ve tried defining the resource without the content the
first time,
> > then override the define with the content, but that only picks up the
> > 2nd server.  I''ve tried accessing the variable that gets
populated
> > after the Memcache::Servers <<| |>> but it
doesn''t get populated in
> > this scope.  I''ve tried looking up the
> >
scope.lookupvar(''memcached::servers::memcacheservers'') but the
> > exported resource is a define not a class and I couldn''t get
it to
> > work.  I''ve tried just using a script to populate the file
with the
> > proper contents, but there is no way to ensure it is filled with all
> > the servers,  for example the script is executed out of order,
> > replaced 3 times if there are 3 servers, and may contain 1, 2, or 3
> > servers after a puppet run.
>
> > Any suggestions?
>
> The way to do this with exported resources is for each node to export
> a resource containing its own information only.  The trick is choosing
> the resource to use for this.
>
> The simplest case would be if "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini" supports
some
> kind of ''include'' directive, especially if it understands
globs.  Then
> each server can export its own (distinctly-named) file intended for
> inclusion, and the node(s) that collect them need only to put the
> appropriate ''include'' directive(s) into the main
memcache.ini.
>
> Alternatively, there is a module available that provides for building
> files from fragments.  Your server could export fragment resources of
> the type defined by that module, and the node(s) that collect them
> would use them to build the memcache.ini file.
>
> Remember: an exported resource is one that you make available for
> other nodes to include in their catalogs, as if they were declared in
> those nodes'' own manifests.  All the normal rules apply in the
context
> where they are collected.  In particular, name and title uniqueness is
> still required, but for exported resources you may get lost resource
> data instead of Puppet errors when there are name collisions.
>
> John
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On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:09 AM, puppetlurker
<under.my.control@gmail.com>wrote:
> This looks promising! I should be able to create a fact on some
> servers, then collect those servers in a template. I''m going to
> upgrade to test this out.
>
>
Another option, just in case you dont want to upgrade your puppet
installation / use storconfigs and you want to get results based on the
state of your nodes (e.g. no stale nodes, nodes with errors etc)  is to
query foreman [1], a simple example of a puppet function can be found here
[2]

Ohad

[1] - http://theforeman.org
[2] -
https://github.com/ohadlevy/puppet-foreman/blob/master/foreman/lib/puppet/parser/functions/foreman.rb

Thanks,
>
> puppetlurker
>
> On Aug 22, 10:45 am, Nan Liu <n...@puppetlabs.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 6:11 AM, puppetlurker
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <under.my.cont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Greetings,
> >
> > > I''m having an issue with my implementation of exported
resources.  I
> > > have a memcache server pool, and want to update the /etc/php.d/
> > > memcache.ini with the ips of all the servers. Previously, I hard
coded
> > > the $memcacheservers array in the node manifest and the template
> > > collected and populated the template.
> >
> > > Now that I''m moving to exported resouces, how do I get
it to set an
> > > array in a way I can access it from a different scope?  I tried
moving
> > > the file { "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini": content =>
template(memcache/
> > > memcache.ini.erb) to the resource function (I understand exported
> > > resources shoulld not define other resources), but it only
populates
> > > the first server collected, and complains about a duplicate
resource
> > > if I have more than 1 exported server.
> >
> > > I''ve tried defining the resource without the content the
first time,
> > > then override the define with the content, but that only picks up
the
> > > 2nd server.  I''ve tried accessing the variable that gets
populated
> > > after the Memcache::Servers <<| |>> but it
doesn''t get populated in
> > > this scope.  I''ve tried looking up the
> > >
scope.lookupvar(''memcached::servers::memcacheservers'') but the
> > > exported resource is a define not a class and I couldn''t
get it to
> > > work.  I''ve tried just using a script to populate the
file with the
> > > proper contents, but there is no way to ensure it is filled with
all
> > > the servers,  for example the script is executed out of order,
> > > replaced 3 times if there are 3 servers, and may contain 1, 2, or
3
> > > servers after a puppet run.
> >
> > > Any suggestions?
> >
> > I was looking at a similar issue where I need to export data, not
> > resource, and be able to lookup the data. It just happens that Dan has
> > published a prototype along the line of what you are looking for:
> https://github.com/puppetlabs/puppetlabs-nodesearch
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Nan
>
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>
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On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 06:21:48AM -0700, jcbollinger
wrote:
> 
> 
> On Aug 22, 8:11 am, puppetlurker <under.my.cont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > I''m having an issue with my implementation of exported
resources.  I
> > have a memcache server pool, and want to update the /etc/php.d/
> > memcache.ini with the ips of all the servers. Previously, I hard coded
> > the $memcacheservers array in the node manifest and the template
> > collected and populated the template.
> >
> > Now that I''m moving to exported resouces, how do I get it to
set an
> > array in a way I can access it from a different scope?  I tried moving
> > the file { "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini": content =>
template(memcache/
> > memcache.ini.erb) to the resource function (I understand exported
> > resources shoulld not define other resources), but it only populates
> > the first server collected, and complains about a duplicate resource
> > if I have more than 1 exported server.
> >
> > I''ve tried defining the resource without the content the
first time,
> > then override the define with the content, but that only picks up the
> > 2nd server.  I''ve tried accessing the variable that gets
populated
> > after the Memcache::Servers <<| |>> but it
doesn''t get populated in
> > this scope.  I''ve tried looking up the
> >
scope.lookupvar(''memcached::servers::memcacheservers'') but the
> > exported resource is a define not a class and I couldn''t get
it to
> > work.  I''ve tried just using a script to populate the file
with the
> > proper contents, but there is no way to ensure it is filled with all
> > the servers,  for example the script is executed out of order,
> > replaced 3 times if there are 3 servers, and may contain 1, 2, or 3
> > servers after a puppet run.
> >
> > Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> The way to do this with exported resources is for each node to export
> a resource containing its own information only.  The trick is choosing
> the resource to use for this.
> 
> The simplest case would be if "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini" supports
some
> kind of ''include'' directive, especially if it understands
globs.  Then
> each server can export its own (distinctly-named) file intended for
> inclusion, and the node(s) that collect them need only to put the
> appropriate ''include'' directive(s) into the main
memcache.ini.
So you can''t do this with your own defines as the resource?

I have various define calls like this:

users::normal { bob: id => 107, email => ''bob@bob.com'' }

What I''m looking to do is collect all the emails into an array or
something so I can use them in a template.

I thought maybe I could make a define that does an array append or
something?

It sounds from what people are saying like there really isn''t a
reasonable way to do this yet?

-Robin

-- 
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is
false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

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On Sep 21, 7:35 pm, Robin Lee Powell <rlpow...@digitalkingdom.org>
wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 06:21:48AM -0700, jcbollinger wrote:
>
> > On Aug 22, 8:11 am, puppetlurker <under.my.cont...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > Greetings,
>
> > > I''m having an issue with my implementation of exported
resources. I
> > > have a memcache server pool, and want to update the /etc/php.d/
> > > memcache.ini with the ips of all the servers. Previously, I hard
coded
> > > the $memcacheservers array in the node manifest and the template
> > > collected and populated the template.
>
> > > Now that I''m moving to exported resouces, how do I get
it to set an
> > > array in a way I can access it from a different scope? I tried
moving
> > > the file { "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini": content =>
template(memcache/
> > > memcache.ini.erb) to the resource function (I understand exported
> > > resources shoulld not define other resources), but it only
populates
> > > the first server collected, and complains about a duplicate
resource
> > > if I have more than 1 exported server.
>
> > > I''ve tried defining the resource without the content the
first time,
> > > then override the define with the content, but that only picks up
the
> > > 2nd server. I''ve tried accessing the variable that gets
populated
> > > after the Memcache::Servers <<| |>> but it
doesn''t get populated in
> > > this scope. I''ve tried looking up the
> > >
scope.lookupvar(''memcached::servers::memcacheservers'') but the
> > > exported resource is a define not a class and I couldn''t
get it to
> > > work. I''ve tried just using a script to populate the
file with the
> > > proper contents, but there is no way to ensure it is filled with
all
> > > the servers, for example the script is executed out of order,
> > > replaced 3 times if there are 3 servers, and may contain 1, 2, or
3
> > > servers after a puppet run.
>
> > > Any suggestions?
>
> > The way to do this with exported resources is for each node to export
> > a resource containing its own information only.  The trick is choosing
> > the resource to use for this.
>
> > The simplest case would be if "/etc/php.d/memcache.ini"
supports some
> > kind of ''include'' directive, especially if it
understands globs.  Then
> > each server can export its own (distinctly-named) file intended for
> > inclusion, and the node(s) that collect them need only to put the
> > appropriate ''include'' directive(s) into the main
memcache.ini.
>
> So you can''t do this with your own defines as the resource?

It depends what "this" is.  You certainly can export and collect
instances of a defined type.

> I have various define calls like this:
>
> users::normal { bob: id => 107, email =>
''...@bob.com'' }
>
> What I''m looking to do is collect all the emails into an array or
> something so I can use them in a template.

It sounds like your problem is that you don''t in fact want to collect
*resources* at all -- rather, you want to collect *data*.  That is not
what exported resources are for.

> I thought maybe I could make a define that does an array append or
> something?

Do not confuse a Puppet defined type with a CPP "#define" macro.  They
are not analogous.  Strictly speaking, an instance of a Puppet defined
type doesn''t *do* anything; it rather declares a logical resource for
Puppet to manage on the node in question.

Exported resources are resources intended to be managed on nodes other
than (or in addition to) the one declaring them.  There is necessarily
an aspect of data sharing to that, but they should not be viewed as a
vehicle for data sharing.

> It sounds from what people are saying like there really isn''t a
> reasonable way to do this yet?

Again, it depends on what "this" is, but I think you are approaching
the problem backwards.  If you need centralized data then you should
create a data source and use it to drive your resource declarations
wherever appropriate.  Details depend a lot on your general approach
and the complexity of the data, but if you want to access your shared
data store from within Puppet itself then I''d recommend looking into
hiera.

More generally, there is no good way for manifests to extract data
from declared (or collected) resources, and I am unaware of any plans
to change that.  I do not personally think it a problem that should be
solved.


John

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Thanks for the detailed reply!

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 07:18:13AM -0700, jcbollinger
wrote:
> 
> It sounds like your problem is that you don''t in fact want to
> collect *resources* at all -- rather, you want to collect *data*.
> That is not what exported resources are for.
That''s entirely correct.  I knew I was hacking around a "not
really
designed to do this", I just thought it might be possible anyway.
> Exported resources are resources intended to be managed on nodes
> other than (or in addition to) the one declaring them.  There is
> necessarily an aspect of data sharing to that, but they should not
> be viewed as a vehicle for data sharing.
OK.
> > It sounds from what people are saying like there really isn''t
a
> > reasonable way to do this yet?
> 
> Again, it depends on what "this" is, but I think you are
> approaching the problem backwards.  If you need centralized data
> then you should create a data source and use it to drive your
> resource declarations wherever appropriate.  Details depend a lot
> on your general approach and the complexity of the data, but if
> you want to access your shared data store from within Puppet
> itself then I''d recommend looking into hiera.
The data right now is *incredibly* simple; just a list of email
addresses (one for each user defined on each host everywhere).
Adding a whole data source system just for that seems like
significant overkill.

Using the @@file trick, while cheating as you say, seems a lot less
effort until/unless Puppet integrates some method of data sharing.
Note that by "integrates" there I don''t mean "comes
with" or
anything, more like "I can run a couple of yum installs and tweak a
couple of config variables and it works", which I''m pretty sure
isn''t the case now for any such shared data stores.

To be more specific, I have user definitions in my site.pp for
various users that have accounts on various hosts.  The user defines
currently look like this:

  users::normal { bob: id => 111, email => ''bob@bob.com''
}

and that is used to set up various things about that user on the
host that it''s defined on (i.e. the actual account).  I would, in
addition, like to collect all the email addresses in one place on a
particular host.

I''m actually not sure that Hiera would solve the problem anyway; if
I have a list of user information stored in a Hiera .yaml file, it''s
not at all obvious to me how to access the email addresses in such
away as to make them available all at once in a template somewhere.
I suppose if I could walk the Hiera tree in a template that would
work; is that possible?

-Robin

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Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
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On Sep 22, 12:39 pm, Robin Lee Powell <rlpow...@digitalkingdom.org>
wrote:
> Thanks for the detailed reply!
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 07:18:13AM -0700, jcbollinger wrote:
>
> > It sounds like your problem is that you don''t in fact want to
> > collect *resources* at all -- rather, you want to collect *data*.
> > That is not what exported resources are for.
>
> That''s entirely correct.  I knew I was hacking around a "not
really
> designed to do this", I just thought it might be possible anyway.
>
> > Exported resources are resources intended to be managed on nodes
> > other than (or in addition to) the one declaring them.  There is
> > necessarily an aspect of data sharing to that, but they should not
> > be viewed as a vehicle for data sharing.
>
> OK.
>
> > > It sounds from what people are saying like there really
isn''t a
> > > reasonable way to do this yet?
>
> > Again, it depends on what "this" is, but I think you are
> > approaching the problem backwards.  If you need centralized data
> > then you should create a data source and use it to drive your
> > resource declarations wherever appropriate.  Details depend a lot
> > on your general approach and the complexity of the data, but if
> > you want to access your shared data store from within Puppet
> > itself then I''d recommend looking into hiera.
>
> The data right now is *incredibly* simple; just a list of email
> addresses (one for each user defined on each host everywhere).
> Adding a whole data source system just for that seems like
> significant overkill.
>
> Using the @@file trick, while cheating as you say, seems a lot less
> effort until/unless Puppet integrates some method of data sharing.
> Note that by "integrates" there I don''t mean "comes
with" or
> anything, more like "I can run a couple of yum installs and tweak a
> couple of config variables and it works", which I''m pretty
sure
> isn''t the case now for any such shared data stores.

You are missing the obvious: anything in your manifests themselves is
at least potentially available to all nodes.  Taking your e-mail
address example, you can do this:

class email {
  $addresses = {
    ''alice'' => ''...@alice.com'',
    ''bob''   => ''...@bob.com'',
    ...
    ''zoe''   => ''...@foo.net''
  }
}

There''s your data store.  You can then remove the
''email'' parameter
from users::normal, and instead have it look up the e-mail address:

define users::normal ($id) {
  $email = $email::addresses[$name]
  ...
}

And the whole of $email::addresses is sitting there for any node that
wants it.

That approach works best for fairly simple data, but there''s no
inherent barrier to making the data as complex as you like.  As a
practical matter, however, you might want to externalize the data so
that you don''t have to modify your manifests to update it. 
That''s
part of what a tool such as hiera could do for you: it might, for
example, load the data from a file and present the hash value to you.
Moreover, it abstracts the actual data source so that at the point of
use, your manifests don''t need to know whether the data is coming from
DSL variables, a flat file, a database, etc.

Why then, you may ask, are exported resources useful?  Why not take a
fully data-driven approach along the lines above?  I''m glad you
asked.  Exported resources can do something that the above approach
cannot: their properties and even their very existence can depend on
the facts pertinent to the nodes exporting them.  If you are
considering a use of exported resources that doesn''t somehow leverage
that characteristic, then you are looking at the wrong tool.


John


John

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On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 02:24:45PM -0700, jcbollinger
wrote:
> 
> You are missing the obvious: 
I had a feeling I might be.
> anything in your manifests themselves is at least potentially
> available to all nodes.  Taking your e-mail address example, you
> can do this:
> 
> class email {
>   $addresses = {
>     ''alice'' => ''...@alice.com'',
>     ''bob''   => ''...@bob.com'',
>     ...
>     ''zoe''   => ''...@foo.net''
>   }
> }
> 
> There''s your data store.  You can then remove the
''email''
> parameter from users::normal, and instead have it look up the
> e-mail address:
> 
> define users::normal ($id) {
>   $email = $email::addresses[$name]
>   ...
> }
> 
> And the whole of $email::addresses is sitting there for any node
> that wants it.
That''s pretty excellent.  Thank you.
> Why then, you may ask, are exported resources useful?  Why not
> take a fully data-driven approach along the lines above?  I''m glad
> you asked.  Exported resources can do something that the above
> approach cannot: their properties and even their very existence
> can depend on the facts pertinent to the nodes exporting them.  If
> you are considering a use of exported resources that doesn''t
> somehow leverage that characteristic, then you are looking at the
> wrong tool.
Where I''ve found them useful, fwiw, is for /etc/hosts and
ssh_known_hosts.

Although even that could probably be put into a data-driven external
something or other.

-Robin

-- 
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is
false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

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