Puppet users - Sep 2009 - puppet / works & does not work: the quantum effect

Good morning dear puppet users,

if you experience "it works - it does not work" situations with puppet
like I do, here may be the reason for it:

  http://www.nico.schottelius.org/blog/puppet-sometimes-loads-a-class/

I was told that this behaviour is "correct" on IRC, but I
don''t agree
with it: a configuration should either work or not, not both.

What''s your point of view?
Is my approach not the way puppet users/devs think or do you also see
this as a bug?

Sincerly,

Nico

-- 
Currently moving *.schottelius.org to http://www.nico.schottelius.org/ ...

PGP: BFE4 C736 ABE5 406F 8F42  F7CF B8BE F92A 9885 188C

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Nico -telmich- Schottelius wrote:
> Good morning dear puppet users,
> 
> if you experience "it works - it does not work" situations with
puppet
> like I do, here may be the reason for it:
> 
>   http://www.nico.schottelius.org/blog/puppet-sometimes-loads-a-class/
> 
> I was told that this behaviour is "correct" on IRC, but I
don''t agree
> with it: a configuration should either work or not, not both.
> 
> What''s your point of view?
> Is my approach not the way puppet users/devs think or do you also see
> this as a bug?
- From reading your blog post I am not sure that behaviour/explanation
 is exactly correct but the best approach would be to log a ticket
please.

Thanks

James Turnbull

- --
Author of:
* Pro Linux Systems Administration (http://tinyurl.com/linuxadmin)
* Pulling Strings with Puppet (http://tinyurl.com/pupbook)
* Pro Nagios 2.0 (http://tinyurl.com/pronagios)
* Hardening Linux (http://tinyurl.com/hardeninglinux)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEVAwUBSsEDbCFa/lDkFHAyAQJi6Af/Qc+A5bJf9yA5mf1TfMBHEj7NmesvK+T4
pQP00ypWEACvl4rLPP27n8clEUfjtCLtYlNrAj4Es4fLPeSVaDrFnxTbYL821gDs
bH8lXCwJjwQYDbXjd8+BphQ1Y8VBt3rCGajO0tLUj9MLd7TNHbyqkKb9M+bFP1JH
xy3GvVDZtV1gHVR8qMzqWTg/TmJZq8rWEyk6oJSJ2qwan2Zs/zSCYVjDaSN+Kkhn
3zEAZqX5QZ8OKS1KiHswljRZ5fWa87YYv2fNTaUcUZxm/auYeDZEUVYPiJe++OKA
0D4agiShQE4hXueUYoz32v7kbmv1W0V0nM0ra0J5662qSdZR7E7R7A==tY3y
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Nico,

I''ve seen this behavior in the past and it generally has to do with a
typo or misconfiguration on my part.

Whenever I run across this, I restart the puppetmaster and then try
again.  At that point, you should never have it work until you fix the
problem.

Generally, after any major change, I restart my test puppetmaster
anyway just to make sure I didn''t do something stupid (missing
permissions, whatever).  If the test puppetmaster works properly, then
it should translate to production with few issues.

Trevor

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 04:13, Nico -telmich- Schottelius
<nico-puppet-users@schottelius.org> wrote:
> Good morning dear puppet users,
>
> if you experience "it works - it does not work" situations with
puppet
> like I do, here may be the reason for it:
>
>  http://www.nico.schottelius.org/blog/puppet-sometimes-loads-a-class/
>
> I was told that this behaviour is "correct" on IRC, but I
don''t agree
> with it: a configuration should either work or not, not both.
>
> What''s your point of view?
> Is my approach not the way puppet users/devs think or do you also see
> this as a bug?
>
> Sincerly,
>
> Nico
>
> --
> Currently moving *.schottelius.org to http://www.nico.schottelius.org/ ...
>
> PGP: BFE4 C736 ABE5 406F 8F42  F7CF B8BE F92A 9885 188C
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkrAcBkACgkQuL75KpiFGIwSngCfTXT/2V+B3MRI4xJB1t6xnMo8
> QFEAoNhYsbbKieB8OpCT3n0PME4HyuFR
> =0+k/
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

nasty side effect from running multiple nodes against the same thread.  
If you would run only the wrong manifest against a certain  
puppetmasterd thread it would always fail (like trevor suggested the  
restart). If puppet would unload all already loaded classes everytime  
a new compile request comes in, people would complain puppet being  
slow(er).

So either cache loaded classes and have such nasty side effects. To be  
sure that your manifest will always work, simply run it against a very  
own puppetmasterd instance.

Or have a slow(er) puppetmasterd without any caching at all. -> no  
"feature" yet.

Or design by convention and never put more than one class/define into  
a file and extensively use puppet''s autoloading feature right. ;)

cheers peter

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

I''m noticed a similar odd behavior with 0.25.1 as well. I have a  
module that works fine under 0.24.8 (both webrick and passenger),  
works fine under 0.25.1 (webrick), but will not load for the first few  
runs under 0.25.1 (passenger). I only have one node, so I''m pretty  
sure it''s not a caching issue, or if it is, it''s odd.

For the first few runs of the node I see the following in the log:

<Error>: Could not parse for environment production: No file(s) found  
for import of ''lanl-baseline'' at
/var/puppet/environments/production/
manifests/site.pp:19

So here''s the chain. If you can see where the problem is, please let  
me know.


/var/puppet/environments/production/manifests/site.pp:
import "lanl-baseline"

/var/puppet/environments/production/modules/lanl-baseline/manifests/ 
init.pp:
import "nodes.pp"
import "definitions/*"
import "classes/*"

/var/puppet/environments/production/modules/lanl-baseline/manifests/ 
nodes.pp:
node basenode {
         case $operatingsystem {
                 darwin: { include darwin }
                 default: { include darwin }
         }
}

# the default node. All non OS classes should inherit this
node default inherits basenode {}

/var/puppet/environments/production/modules/lanl-baseline/manifests/ 
classes/darwin.pp
class darwin {
         include puppet
         include stom
         include getDefsDate
	include swInventory
	include sav
}

each of the classes included in darwin.pp have corresponding ".pp"  
class files in same "classes" dir.

So after two or three client runs I no longer get the error about lanl- 
baseline and the catalog is built and run.

Do I need to change my dir structure:

puppet-dev:production root# pwd
/var/puppet/environments/production
puppet-dev:production root# tree .
    |-manifests
    |-modules
    |---lanl-baseline
    |-----files
    |-----manifests
    |-------classes
    |-------definitions
    |-templates


puppet.conf:

[main]
  manifest	= /var/puppet/environments/production/manifests/site.pp
  modulepath	= /var/puppet/environments/production/modules
  templatedir    = /var/puppet/environments/production/templates


---
Thanks,

Allan Marcus
505-667-5666



On Sep 28, 2009, at 2:13 AM, Nico -telmich- Schottelius wrote:
> Good morning dear puppet users,
>
> if you experience "it works - it does not work" situations with
puppet
> like I do, here may be the reason for it:
>
>  http://www.nico.schottelius.org/blog/puppet-sometimes-loads-a-class/
>
> I was told that this behaviour is "correct" on IRC, but I
don''t agree
> with it: a configuration should either work or not, not both.
>
> What''s your point of view?
> Is my approach not the way puppet users/devs think or do you also see
> this as a bug?
>
> Sincerly,
>
> Nico
>
> -- 
> Currently moving *.schottelius.org to http:// 
> www.nico.schottelius.org/ ...
>
> PGP: BFE4 C736 ABE5 406F 8F42  F7CF B8BE F92A 9885 188C

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Peter,

Thanks for the explanation.

I hadn''t realized that I was abusing the crap out of the autoloader
but, now that you explain it, I am!

Trevor

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 08:28, Peter Meier <peter.meier@immerda.ch>
wrote:
>
> nasty side effect from running multiple nodes against the same thread.
> If you would run only the wrong manifest against a certain
> puppetmasterd thread it would always fail (like trevor suggested the
> restart). If puppet would unload all already loaded classes everytime
> a new compile request comes in, people would complain puppet being
> slow(er).
>
> So either cache loaded classes and have such nasty side effects. To be
> sure that your manifest will always work, simply run it against a very
> own puppetmasterd instance.
>
> Or have a slow(er) puppetmasterd without any caching at all. -> no
> "feature" yet.
>
> Or design by convention and never put more than one class/define into
> a file and extensively use puppet''s autoloading feature right. ;)
>
> cheers peter
>
> >
>
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 5:28 AM, Peter Meier <peter.meier@immerda.ch>
wrote:
> Or design by convention and never put more than one class/define into
> a file and extensively use puppet''s autoloading feature right. ;)
That''s the approach I''ve always taken, and I haven''t
run into any of
these class of problems so far.


-- 
nigel

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Hi
> /var/puppet/environments/production/modules/lanl-baseline/manifests/ 
> classes/darwin.pp
> class darwin {
>          include puppet
>          include stom
>          include getDefsDate
> 	include swInventory
> 	include sav
> }
> 
> each of the classes included in darwin.pp have corresponding
".pp"
> class files in same "classes" dir.
> 
> So after two or three client runs I no longer get the error about lanl- 
> baseline and the catalog is built and run.
> 
> Do I need to change my dir structure:
> 
> puppet-dev:production root# pwd
> /var/puppet/environments/production
> puppet-dev:production root# tree .
>     |-manifests
>     |-modules
>     |---lanl-baseline
>     |-----files
>     |-----manifests
>     |-------classes
>     |-------definitions
>     |-templates
> 
not that I''m sure this is related to your problem. Try to get rid off
import statements and organise your .pp according to their names, so
puppet find them via autoloading. I don''t see any reason to distinguish
between classes and definitions and put them into different folders.

Means if you have a class lanl-baseline::foobar it comes into

lanl-baseline/manifests/foobar.pp

cheers pete

--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Puppet Users" group.
To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
puppet-users+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---