I''d like to raise an issue I have with many of the collections of puppet recipies available online. Many files do not identify the copyright status of the file, or identify it incorrectly, and this makes it difficult to use these samples. Specifically: the puppet wiki states "Copyright ? 2000-2007 Reductive Labs, LLC." at the bottom of all pages, including sample recipies. But unless the user has explicitly transferred the copyright to reductive labs, this is not true. Furthermore, while I believe the intent is for people to actuall COPY these examples, the there is currently no permission granted for this. I think that the policy should be that to include recipes on the puppet wiki, they MUST be licensed with a license that allows users to copy and modify them. In this case it is probably simplest to say that all wiki examples must be licensed under the same license as puppet itself, and the copyright statement on the wiki should be modified to reflect this. Someone should also contact the users that submitted the examples on the wiki and get explicit consent from them (I can do this). As a more general comment, many of the 3rd-party sample manifests and modules do not explicitly mention the copyright on the files; others include what is intended to be a blanket COPYING file or the like in their root directory, but then include files from other sources that are under a different license. (For example, people who use DavidS''s BSD-licensed common module, but then distribute their manifest collection under a blanket GPL. Because the general intent is that you could mix and match modules from different sources in your site''s local manfiest, I think as a best practice ALL files in a collection should explicitly include at minimum a copyright notice (such as Copyright 2008 Ryan Mcbride) and a statement of copyright permission stating which license it is distributed under. This is in line with the official GNU recommendations in this area: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html, For BSD licensed files, one might as well include the whole license in the file, it''s short :-) -Ryan -- Ryan T. McBride, CISSP - mcbride@countersiege.com Countersiege Systems Corporation - http://www.countersiege.com PGP key fingerprint = 5A63 31A0 B2E0 4A64 3D16 C474 99A7 BEFE F9BA A8E0 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
2008/6/26 Ryan McBride <mcbride@countersiege.com>:> This is in line with the official GNU recommendations in this area: > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html, For BSD licensed files, one > might as well include the whole license in the file, it''s short :-)This is what I''m aiming to propose to my management when I want to contribute recipes/modules back to the community. They''ve already said I''m not allowed to devote company time to providing support for them, but they have no issue with contributions beyond that. I''m thinking I can contribute back under the BSD license, with the appropriate license file in the module distribution - that lets anyone else with an interest pick up the module and run with it if they want to. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Jun 25, 2008, at 11:43 PM, Ryan McBride wrote:> Specifically: the puppet wiki states "Copyright ? 2000-2007 Reductive > Labs, LLC." at the bottom of all pages, including sample recipies. But > unless the user has explicitly transferred the copyright to reductive > labs, this is not true. Furthermore, while I believe the intent is for > people to actuall COPY these examples, the there is currently no > permission granted for this. > > I think that the policy should be that to include recipes on the > puppet > wiki, they MUST be licensed with a license that allows users to copy > and > modify them. In this case it is probably simplest to say that all wiki > examples must be licensed under the same license as puppet itself, and > the copyright statement on the wiki should be modified to reflect > this. > Someone should also contact the users that submitted the examples on > the > wiki and get explicit consent from them (I can do this).We need to modify our copyright statements, clearly; I just haven''t been paying attention to that bit. Reductive Labs will never claim copyright or ownership of anyone else''s work, either contributions to Puppet or postings on the wiki. I expect that a BSD-style license makes more sense for the manifests, rather than following Puppet''s GPL, but I don''t know how that meshes with the non-executable content (which would need something more like a Creative Commons license, I think).> Because the general intent is that you could mix and match modules > from > different sources in your site''s local manfiest, I think as a best > practice ALL files in a collection should explicitly include at > minimum > a copyright notice (such as Copyright 2008 Ryan Mcbride) and a > statement > of copyright permission stating which license it is distributed under.I agree with this. I''ve tried to make contributions to projects where the license hadn''t been tracked closely (Ganglia, in particular) and I couldn''t publish the work in the end because I didn''t know what license I should use. -- If all the world''s a stage, I want to operate the trap door. -- Paul Beatty --------------------------------------------------------------------- Luke Kanies | http://reductivelabs.com | http://madstop.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> We need to modify our copyright statements, clearly; I just haven''t > been paying attention to that bit. > > Reductive Labs will never claim copyright or ownership of anyone > else''s work, either contributions to Puppet or postings on the wiki. > > I expect that a BSD-style license makes more sense for the manifests, > rather than following Puppet''s GPL, but I don''t know how that meshes > with the non-executable content (which would need something more like > a Creative Commons license, I think). >GFD was made to handle non-code stuff so that could work. The CC licenses get tricky in a hurry, to many ways to put them together. I see no particular reasons that the gpl or BSD would not cover a manifest or recipe, though without need for a documents license. The recipes are effectively part of the run time code of puppet and everything needed to make recipe work is part of that "code">> Because the general intent is that you could mix and match modules >> from >> different sources in your site''s local manfiest, I think as a best >> practice ALL files in a collection should explicitly include at >> minimum >> a copyright notice (such as Copyright 2008 Ryan Mcbride) and a >> statement >> of copyright permission stating which license it is distributed under. > > I agree with this. I''ve tried to make contributions to projects where > the license hadn''t been tracked closely (Ganglia, in particular) and I > couldn''t publish the work in the end because I didn''t know what > license I should use.Fortunately this problem should not affect people attempting to _use_ the recipes. Only those publishing complete manifests or large recipe groupings are affected. Perhaps a list of recommend recipe license on the wiki recipe page would be a could idea for those interested in publishing? Evan --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
I''m in 150% agreement on BSD for the manifests. Randy Bias, chief tactician, neoTactics, Inc. (877) NEO-TKTX, randyb@neotactics.com On Jun 30, 2008, at 7:17 AM, Luke Kanies wrote:> I expect that a BSD-style license makes more sense for the manifests, > rather than following Puppet''s GPL, but I don''t know how that meshes > with the non-executable content (which would need something more like > a Creative Commons license, I think).--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
Yes, this is something we intend to do. I would prefer the least restrictive licensing possible for manifests and plugins. Randy Bias, chief tactician, neoTactics, Inc. (877) NEO-TKTX, randyb@neotactics.com On Jun 30, 2008, at 7:33 AM, Evan Hisey wrote:> Only those publishing complete manifests or large recipe > groupings are affected.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 10:42:04AM -0700, Randy Bias wrote:> Yes, this is something we intend to do. I would prefer the least > restrictive licensing possible for manifests and plugins.In the interest of simplicity (and reflecting my personal bias), I''d like to suggest the ISC license: -- Copyright (c) CCYY YOUR NAME HERE <user@your.dom.ain> Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any purpose with or without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above copyright notice and this permission notice appear in all copies. THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS" AND THE AUTHOR DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES WITH REGARD TO THIS SOFTWARE INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHOR BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOFTWARE. -- Ryan T. McBride, CISSP - mcbride@countersiege.com Countersiege Systems Corporation - http://www.countersiege.com PGP key fingerprint = 5A63 31A0 B2E0 4A64 3D16 C474 99A7 BEFE F9BA A8E0 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 09:33:58AM -0500, Evan Hisey wrote:> Fortunately this problem should not affect people attempting to _use_ > the recipes. Only those publishing complete manifests or large recipe > groupings are affected.While in practice there may be no consequences to downloading and using copyrighted recipes without appropriate permission, such use is still technical illegal according to copyright law in many jurisdictions. Of course there is a great degree of grey area here; one could make arguments about fair use / fair dealing (the details of which vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and are quite subjective in all of them) and one might also argue that trivial examples are effectively not copyrightable (but such trivial examples are usually acompanied by very copyrightable text). Personally, I''d prefer to avoid that mess though. I think it''s safest pick one license, and make sure EVERYTHING on the wiki is released under it. Much less uncertainty that way. -Ryan -- Ryan T. McBride, CISSP - mcbride@countersiege.com Countersiege Systems Corporation - http://www.countersiege.com PGP key fingerprint = 5A63 31A0 B2E0 4A64 3D16 C474 99A7 BEFE F9BA A8E0 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
This looks fine as well. Randy Bias, chief tactician, neoTactics, Inc. (877) NEO-TKTX, randyb@neotactics.com On Jun 30, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Ryan McBride wrote:> In the interest of simplicity (and reflecting my personal bias), I''d > like to suggest the ISC license: >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Randy Bias wrote:> This looks fine as well. > > > Randy Bias, chief tactician, neoTactics, Inc. > (877) NEO-TKTX, randyb@neotactics.com > > > On Jun 30, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Ryan McBride wrote: > >> In the interest of simplicity (and reflecting my personal bias), I''d >> like to suggest the ISC license:Not fussed generally and I am comfortable with a BSD-style license so ISC is fine with me. Regards James - -- Author of: * Pulling Strings with Puppet (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590599780/) * Pro Nagios 2.0 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590596099/) * Hardening Linux (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590594444/) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIbY5J9hTGvAxC30ARArxBAKCWG33J0uSJiCCV/Gtmxap5ic9MbACfboMe c8Cc5fX4jnOJWg/4yhyMeuM=ntX2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
On Jul 3, 2008, at 9:43 PM, James Turnbull wrote:> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Randy Bias wrote: >> This looks fine as well. >> >> >> Randy Bias, chief tactician, neoTactics, Inc. >> (877) NEO-TKTX, randyb@neotactics.com >> >> >> On Jun 30, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Ryan McBride wrote: >> >>> In the interest of simplicity (and reflecting my personal bias), I''d >>> like to suggest the ISC license: > > Not fussed generally and I am comfortable with a BSD-style license so > ISC is fine with me.Having looked at it, I concur. For any recipes I''ve published on the wiki, consider them released under this license unless another is specified. I''ll go through my published modules and update them. -- I think that''s how Chicago got started. A bunch of people in New York said, ''Gee, I''m enjoying the crime and the poverty, but it just isn''t cold enough. Let''s go west.'' --Richard Jeni --------------------------------------------------------------------- Luke Kanies | http://reductivelabs.com | http://madstop.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Luke Kanies wrote: | On Jul 3, 2008, at 9:43 PM, James Turnbull wrote: | |> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- |> Hash: SHA1 |> |> Randy Bias wrote: |>> This looks fine as well. |>> |>> |>> Randy Bias, chief tactician, neoTactics, Inc. |>> (877) NEO-TKTX, randyb@neotactics.com |>> |>> |>> On Jun 30, 2008, at 9:47 PM, Ryan McBride wrote: |>> |>>> In the interest of simplicity (and reflecting my personal bias), I''d |>>> like to suggest the ISC license: |> Not fussed generally and I am comfortable with a BSD-style license so |> ISC is fine with me. | | Having looked at it, I concur. | | For any recipes I''ve published on the wiki, consider them released | under this license unless another is specified. I''ll go through my | published modules and update them. | And me also - consider anything I''ve written on the wiki released under the ISC license. Regards James - -- Author of: * Pulling Strings with Puppet (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590599780/) * Pro Nagios 2.0 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590596099/) * Hardening Linux (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590594444/) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIcvYk9hTGvAxC30ARAh92AKDL1zpRkiHhChfjK3Dn0cD8JjfkvACeKgHA JjDmjtp0cHriHWYIY1d10Ws=EOo9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---