pkg kde talk - Jul 2008 - rev 11376 - in branches/kde4/packages/kdebase-workspace/debian: . patches

On Monday 07 July 2008 16:54:26 Ana Beatriz Guerrero L?pez wrote:
>
> -    * ksysguard now depends on ksysguardd.
> +  * ksysguard now recommends on ksysguardd.
>
> Modified: branches/kde4/packages/kdebase-workspace/debian/control
> ==================================================================> ---
branches/kde4/packages/kdebase-workspace/debian/control	2008-07-07
> 14:25:58 UTC (rev 11375) +++
> branches/kde4/packages/kdebase-workspace/debian/control	2008-07-07 14:54:26
> UTC (rev 11376) @@ -132,7 +132,8 @@
>  Package: ksysguard
>  Section: admin
>  Architecture: any
> -Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ksysguardd (= ${binary:Version})
> +Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
> +Recommends: ksysguardd (= ${binary:Version})
>  Description: System Guard for KDE 4
>   KDE System Guard allows you to monitor various statistics about your
> system. .
This is wrong.

You are trading less than 300K for a bad user experience - and even 300K that 
there is a big chance that people already have installed. And kde3 also have 
the same dependency.

Please revert or come with a *justification* other than "I don''t
use it".

 - and please don''t hide the changes in your commit messages.

/Sune
-- 
Do you know how to log on the system on the attachment from Photoshop or from 
Netscape XP?

From the control file inside Excel you should upload a driver for closeing a 
LCD computer over the GUI.

On Mon, Jul 07, 2008 at 05:38:11PM +0200, Sune Vuorela
wrote:
> 
> 
> On Monday 07 July 2008 16:54:26 Ana Beatriz Guerrero L?pez wrote:
> 
> >
> > -    * ksysguard now depends on ksysguardd.
> > +  * ksysguard now recommends on ksysguardd.
> >
> 
> > Modified: branches/kde4/packages/kdebase-workspace/debian/control
> > ==================================================================>
> --- branches/kde4/packages/kdebase-workspace/debian/control	2008-07-07
> > 14:25:58 UTC (rev 11375) +++
> > branches/kde4/packages/kdebase-workspace/debian/control	2008-07-07
14:54:26
> > UTC (rev 11376) @@ -132,7 +132,8 @@
> >  Package: ksysguard
> >  Section: admin
> >  Architecture: any
> > -Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ksysguardd (= ${binary:Version})
> > +Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
> > +Recommends: ksysguardd (= ${binary:Version})
> >  Description: System Guard for KDE 4
> >   KDE System Guard allows you to monitor various statistics about your
> > system. .
> 
> This is wrong.
> 
> You are trading less than 300K for a bad user experience - and even 300K
that
> there is a big chance that people already have installed. And kde3 also
have
> the same dependency.
Problem here about "bad user experience" is the not clear error
message, we
should ask upstream change it.
> Please revert or come with a *justification* other than "I
don''t use it".
ksysguard can do some stuff without ksysguardd, plus you can use it for remote
monitoring, so ksysguardd is *optional*. Most of users have recommends by
default, and users who are cluefull to remove recommends by default know how
to read package descripts as well and install kssysguard if they want it.
> 
>  - and please don''t hide the changes in your commit messages.
>
I did not  :?

On Monday 07 July 2008 18:10:01 Ana Guerrero wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 07, 2008 at 05:38:11PM +0200, Sune Vuorela wrote:
> > On Monday 07 July 2008 16:54:26 Ana Beatriz Guerrero L?pez wrote:
> > > -    * ksysguard now depends on ksysguardd.
> > > +  * ksysguard now recommends on ksysguardd.
> > >
> > >
> > > Modified: branches/kde4/packages/kdebase-workspace/debian/control
> > >
==================================================================> > >
--- branches/kde4/packages/kdebase-workspace/debian/control	2008-07-07
> > > 14:25:58 UTC (rev 11375) +++
> > > branches/kde4/packages/kdebase-workspace/debian/control
2008-07-07
> > > 14:54:26 UTC (rev 11376) @@ -132,7 +132,8 @@
> > >  Package: ksysguard
> > >  Section: admin
> > >  Architecture: any
> > > -Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ksysguardd (= ${binary:Version})
> > > +Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}
> > > +Recommends: ksysguardd (= ${binary:Version})
> > >  Description: System Guard for KDE 4
> > >   KDE System Guard allows you to monitor various statistics about
your
> > > system. .
> >
> > This is wrong.
> >
> > You are trading less than 300K for a bad user experience - and even
300K
> > that there is a big chance that people already have installed. And
kde3
> > also have the same dependency.
>
> Problem here about "bad user experience" is the not clear error
message, we
> should ask upstream change it.
When reading the code, the message is quite clear. It is as far as I 
understood the code not intended to be shown as a message if daemon is 
unavailable, but more as a error message for other issues, like networking 
issues. 
And the connection to the ksysguardd running on localhost seems to be a 
fallback thingie if nothing else is available.

From the source:
  //if no hosts are specified, at least connect to localhost
  if(dnList.count() == 0)
    KSGRD::SensorMgr->engage( "localhost", "",
"ksysguardd", -1);

(and there are a couple of other similar things)
> > Please revert or come with a *justification* other than "I
don''t use it".
>
> ksysguard can do some stuff without ksysguardd, plus you can use it for
> remote monitoring, so ksysguardd is *optional*. 
It doesn''t look like it is optional, but works anyway. 

It is by the way quite normal for system monitor thingies to monitor localhost 
by default without extra effort.

I think we should put it in as Depends for now and downgrade if upstream 
considers it optional. I can write them a email (or locate on irc)

And it is still just a few hundred kb that we are pulling in.
> >  - and please don''t hide the changes in your commit messages.
>
> I did not  :?
The following is the *full* commit message:  "new snapshot (85+) redo
patches"

/Sune

-- 
Man, how can I ping the port 7 of a analogic window over the forward?

First you neither should ever log on a case to the tool, nor must mount a 
periferic on the memory, this way from Photoshop you must log from a coaxial 
DVD head of the GUI on a IRC FPU.

On Mon, Jul 07, 2008 at 07:24:59PM +0200, Sune Vuorela
wrote:
> 
> 
..

I will forward you back to the recent discussion on IRC.

I don''t mind if ksysguard depends on ksysguardd or just recommends it,
but I
want that the kdebase-workspace metapackage depends on it, because IMHO
it''s a metapackage''s purpose to depend on everything provided
by the archive.
I commited it and someone reverted without explanation.
Furthermore, it would fix the issue of users not getting it if they disable 
recommends, while letting the powerusers remove it.

So that''s what I propose : 
  ksysguard recommends ksysguardd
  kdebase-workspace depends on ksysguardd

-- 
Xavier Vello

On Tuesday 08 July 2008 08:44:58 Xavier Vello wrote:
> I don''t mind if ksysguard depends on ksysguardd or just recommends
it, but
> I want that the kdebase-workspace metapackage depends on it, because IMHO
> it''s a metapackage''s purpose to depend on everything
provided by the
> archive. I commited it and someone reverted without explanation.
> Furthermore, it would fix the issue of users not getting it if they disable
> recommends, while letting the powerusers remove it.
>
> So that''s what I propose :
>   ksysguard recommends ksysguardd
>   kdebase-workspace depends on ksysguardd
Sounds good, in this way we allow both the power users and the normal users to 
be happy. +1 for this.


-- 
FAQ del peque?o tomi:
P- ?Que pasa si quiero ejecutar XWindow en una 386 con 4mb de RAM?
?Que swap necesito?
R- No neceistas swap, necesitas internarte en el borda...
yo lo hice con 20Mb de swap... todavia estoy suelto...
  Textual de Mart?n "El Ruso" Ribelotta

Lisandro Dami?n Nicanor P?rez Meyer
http://perezmeyer.com.ar/
http://perezmeyer.blogspot.com/

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Sveiki,

Tuesday 08 July 2008, Xavier Vello ra??:
> So that''s what I propose :
>   ksysguard recommends ksysguardd
>   kdebase-workspace depends on ksysguardd
+1. I proposed this on IRC too.

-- 
Modestas Vainius <modestas at vainius.eu>

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On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:24:59 +0200, Sune Vuorela <Sune at vuorela.dk>
wrote:
> I think we should put it in as Depends for now and downgrade if upstream 
> considers it optional. I can write them a email (or locate on irc)
I just spoke with upstream.

A few quotes from my irc conversation:

<me> ksysguardd is expected to work without ksysguard available. How true
is the opposite ?
<upstream> not very

<me> we are in debian currently discussing wether ksysguardd should be
optional (Recommends in debian language) for ksysguard or mandatory
(Depends).
<upstream> mandatory
<upstream> I have never tested ksysguard without ksysguardd :-)
<upstream> besides, ksysguardd is a tiny program :)

There doesn''t seem to be much possibilities of interpretating this in
different directions.

/Sune

On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 01:44:58PM +0200, Xavier Vello
wrote:
> I don''t mind if ksysguard depends on ksysguardd or just recommends
it, but I
> want that the kdebase-workspace metapackage depends on it, because IMHO
> it''s a metapackage''s purpose to depend on everything
provided by the archive.
> I commited it and someone reverted without explanation.
> Furthermore, it would fix the issue of users not getting it if they disable
> recommends, while letting the powerusers remove it.
> 
> So that''s what I propose : 
>   ksysguard recommends ksysguardd
>   kdebase-workspace depends on ksysguardd
>
I would agree on this.

On Tuesday 08 July 2008 15:36:45 Sune Vuorela wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:24:59 +0200, Sune Vuorela <Sune at vuorela.dk>
wrote:
> > I think we should put it in as Depends for now and downgrade if
upstream
> > considers it optional. I can write them a email (or locate on irc)
>
> I just spoke with upstream.
>
> A few quotes from my irc conversation:
>
> <me> ksysguardd is expected to work without ksysguard available. How
true
> is the opposite ?
> <upstream> not very
>
> <me> we are in debian currently discussing wether ksysguardd should
be
> optional (Recommends in debian language) for ksysguard or mandatory
> (Depends).
> <upstream> mandatory
> <upstream> I have never tested ksysguard without ksysguardd :-)
> <upstream> besides, ksysguardd is a tiny program :)
>
> There doesn''t seem to be much possibilities of interpretating this
in
> different directions.
>
> /Sune
As someone stated on IRC, the debian policy says :
	The Recommends field should list packages that would be found
	together with this one in all but unusual installations.
Which corresponds to this situation. Do you agree ?

Does anyone have another idea/argument ?
I''d like it to be fixed as soon as possible.

-- 
Xavier Vello