(this entire mail is my personal opinions and a proposal - and even if I sound like it is something decided, it is just my writing style ;-) Hi! KDE4 is coming - one day. Alphas are coming at May 3rd. I think we should try package the alphas. BUILDING We need a lot of things in order to make kde4 usable. Partly a new infrastructure is needed. KDE4 uses cmake as build system. CDBS does not have anything directly that can help us - but there is a cmake.mk in some of the kde-exstras packages, that at least can serve as a inspiration. The other parts of cdbs, the current kde.mk and the debian-qt-kde.mk does at least need to be looked very carefully thru, if not completely rewritten. We also have the opportunity to skip cdbs if we feel like. Or move patch system to nice quilt. And other decisions. But I think we need the decisions now. In general I would think we should start from scratch with empty debian dirs in all source packages and take it from there. Maybe keep changelog for historical purposes. RELATED PACKAGES kde4 currently uses a newer qt4 than the 4.3beta found in the kde subversion - no one knows when qt4.3 will be stable - so we need to get qt4 updated to the the snapshot at least. strigi is a very important build-dependency of kdelibs. And a newer snapshot from kde trunk is also needed. I would also suggest moving strigi from pkg-kde-extras to pkg-kde. And integrate the maintainers to pkg-kde team. dolphin is currently packaged in debian as a seperate thingy. Dolphin will be the file manager in kde4 so we need some cooperation. I suggest ''hijack'' the package and assimilate the dolphin maintainers to pkg-kde team. KDE4 - PACKAGES I would like if we could hook up with the ''review package descriptions'' team to create some useful goot package descriptions. I would also like if we aimed at making all the packages lintian clean. As everything needs to be reworked anyway, we have the opportunity to do it. KDE3 I don''t know fully have decided what to do about kde3 for the future. Maybe starting with a amputated kde3libs (skipping khtml and maybe other parts as well) to keep some compability and skip the rest of kde3. Maybe just skip entire kde3. Most packages build-depending on kdebase-dev is window decorations - so that could easily go away. But really many packages uses kdelibs. KUBUNTU Closer cooperation with kubuntu about kde4 would be nice. I don''t know if it should be thought into the build infrastructure. kubuntu has packages out in the wild. I don''t know if they could be used for inspiration. TIMELINE upstream timeline starts with a + My suggested actions are written in between - but maybe too tight. +Mon, 30 April: Merge Phonon/Solid API cleanup branch. Merge Nepomuk +Tues, 1 May: Begin kdelibs soft API freeze Have qt4 and strigi updated. Review cmake.mk and decide on what to do about how to build +Thu, 3 May: Tag KDE 4.0 Alpha1 Infrastructure somewhat usable. Preliminary packages of kdelibs, kdepimlibs, kdebase ready +Tues, 8 May: New Application Freeze, Start Usability and Accessibility Review Do the rest of the packages. +Mon, 14 May: Tag KDE 3.5.7 Do kde3.5.7. +Tues, 22 May: Expected release date of KDE 3.5.7 Any comments - including "Are you completely insane" is welcome. /Sune -- I cannot log from the display from the control options inside Excel NT, how does it work? You neither should rename the cable, nor can ever digit from a ethernet prompt of a LCD terminale on the fan. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-kde-talk/attachments/20070427/4c137568/attachment.pgp
Some stuff already talked about this IRC, I''m repeating here to keep the record. On Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 12:07:26PM +0200, Sune Vuorela wrote:> KDE4 is coming - one day. Alphas are coming at May 3rd. I think we should try > package the alphas.Yes, I think we should start packaging the alphas (or snapshots), but do not uploading them to experimental. And starting to upload to experimental with the first beta due to June 25 (monday after debconf, ouch).> > BUILDING > > We need a lot of things in order to make kde4 usable. Partly a new > infrastructure is needed. > > KDE4 uses cmake as build system. CDBS does not have anything directly that can > help us - but there is a cmake.mk in some of the kde-exstras packages, that > at least can serve as a inspiration. > > The other parts of cdbs, the current kde.mk and the debian-qt-kde.mk does at > least need to be looked very carefully thru, if not completely rewritten. >Well, once we have started packaging the alphas, we''ll discover the possible problems and I think the best solution here is go patching^Wfixing as we go :-) I do not think we''ll have a clear idea about what is more suitable here until we have packaged at least the alpha.> We also have the opportunity to skip cdbs if we feel like. Or move patch > system to nice quilt. And other decisions. But I think we need the decisions > now.I would like to continue with CDBS, and I agree about to use quilt.> > In general I would think we should start from scratch with empty debian dirs > in all source packages and take it from there. Maybe keep changelog for > historical purposes. >Of course about keep the changelog.> RELATED PACKAGES > > kde4 currently uses a newer qt4 than the 4.3beta found in the kde subversion - > no one knows when qt4.3 will be stable - so we need to get qt4 updated to the > the snapshot at least. >Qt 4.3 will be released before the first beta (first of June) and i hope Pyro will uploads. Until them we can always package qt4.3 beta in alioth for our use.> strigi is a very important build-dependency of kdelibs. And a newer snapshot > from kde trunk is also needed. I would also suggest moving strigi from > pkg-kde-extras to pkg-kde. And integrate the maintainers to pkg-kde team. >There is not really need to move it from a team to the other. Specially because most of us belongs to both teams. Fathi, Mark, what about package lastest snapshot and upload it to experimental?> dolphin is currently packaged in debian as a seperate thingy. Dolphin will be > the file manager in kde4 so we need some cooperation. I suggest ''hijack'' the > package and assimilate the dolphin maintainers to pkg-kde team. >This will not be a problem until we upload kde 4.0 to unstable.. someday :-) Until then, current dolphin can co-exist happily. We should talk about this with current maintainers, but there is not real hurry in this.> KDE4 - PACKAGES > > I would like if we could hook up with the ''review package descriptions'' team > to create some useful goot package descriptions. >Yes, but it is still early to ask them for help.> I would also like if we aimed at making all the packages lintian clean. As > everything needs to be reworked anyway, we have the opportunity to do it. >I doubt will be "lintian clean" some day, there will be always false positives.> > KDE3 > > I don''t know fully have decided what to do about kde3 for the future. Maybe > starting with a amputated kde3libs (skipping khtml and maybe other parts as > well) to keep some compability and skip the rest of kde3. Maybe just skip > entire kde3. > Most packages build-depending on kdebase-dev is window decorations - so that > could easily go away. But really many packages uses kdelibs. >I would not worry about this until kde4 is released. Seriously.> > TIMELINE > > upstream timeline starts with a + > My suggested actions are written in between - but maybe too tight. > > +Mon, 30 April: Merge Phonon/Solid API cleanup branch. Merge Nepomuk > +Tues, 1 May: Begin kdelibs soft API freeze > Have qt4 and strigi updated. > Review cmake.mk and decide on what to do about how to build > +Thu, 3 May: Tag KDE 4.0 Alpha1 > Infrastructure somewhat usable. > Preliminary packages of kdelibs, kdepimlibs, kdebase ready > +Tues, 8 May: New Application Freeze, Start Usability and Accessibility Review > Do the rest of the packages. > +Mon, 14 May: Tag KDE 3.5.7 > Do kde3.5.7. > +Tues, 22 May: Expected release date of KDE 3.5.7 >I can not commit to follow any timeline, sorry. IDEAS Once we start packaging the betas, we could try to publish a lice CD with every beta. It is supposed to be easy make them :) OTHER STUFF I think we have already somehow decided do not make kde4 and kde3 coexist. Ana
(Same disclaimer about writing style) On Monday 30 April 2007, Ana Guerrero wrote:> Some stuff already talked about this IRC, I''m repeating here to keep > the record.Yeah. Some of my reply also.> Yes, I think we should start packaging the alphas (or snapshots), but do > not uploading them to experimental. And starting to upload to experimental > with the first beta due to June 25 (monday after debconf, ouch).hmm.. ouch. But yeah. sounds reasonable.> > We also have the opportunity to skip cdbs if we feel like. Or move patch > > system to nice quilt. And other decisions. But I think we need the > > decisions now. > > I would like to continue with CDBS, and I agree about to use quilt.If no one objects, I tihnk this is the decision then.> > RELATED PACKAGES > > > > kde4 currently uses a newer qt4 than the 4.3beta found in the kde > > subversion - no one knows when qt4.3 will be stable - so we need to get > > qt4 updated to the the snapshot at least. > > Qt 4.3 will be released before the first beta (first of June) and i hope > Pyro will uploads. Until them we can always package qt4.3 beta in alioth > for our use.I have started on qt4.3 snapshots.> > strigi is a very important build-dependency of kdelibs. And a newer > > snapshot from kde trunk is also needed. I would also suggest moving > > strigi from pkg-kde-extras to pkg-kde. And integrate the maintainers to > > pkg-kde team. > > There is not really need to move it from a team to the other. Specially > because most of us belongs to both teams.Yeah. I might just have been damaged by following kde upstream a bit where kde is not allowed to depend on -extras stuff.> Fathi, Mark, what about package > lastest snapshot and upload it to experimental?That would be really awesome. Or upload to alioth.> This will not be a problem until we upload kde 4.0 to unstable.. someday > :-) Until then, current dolphin can co-exist happily. We should talk about > this with current maintainers, but there is not real hurry in this.There is no need to hurry this, no. But if I was dolphin maintainer I would like to know what was going on related to my package. I know that not all people (fortunately) not are like me. Maybe just pointing them to this thread in the lists archive?> > I would also like if we aimed at making all the packages lintian clean. > > As everything needs to be reworked anyway, we have the opportunity to do > > it. > > I doubt will be "lintian clean" some day, there will be always false > positives.yeah. But beside those.> > TIMELINE > > > > upstream timeline starts with a + > > My suggested actions are written in between - but maybe too tight. > > > > +Mon, 30 April: Merge Phonon/Solid API cleanup branch. Merge Nepomuk > > +Tues, 1 May: Begin kdelibs soft API freeze > > Have qt4 and strigi updated. > > Review cmake.mk and decide on what to do about how to build > > +Thu, 3 May: Tag KDE 4.0 Alpha1 > > Infrastructure somewhat usable. > > Preliminary packages of kdelibs, kdepimlibs, kdebase ready > > +Tues, 8 May: New Application Freeze, Start Usability and Accessibility > > Review Do the rest of the packages. > > +Mon, 14 May: Tag KDE 3.5.7 > > Do kde3.5.7. > > +Tues, 22 May: Expected release date of KDE 3.5.7 > > I can not commit to follow any timeline, sorry.I would somehow have preferred a answer like: "I can''t commit to a timeline, but it doesn''t sound unreasonable and I would try to help as good as I can" or "I can''t commit to a timeline, and this one sounds too fast. I would like to give it two more weeks" I personally prefer missing a approximate timeline that not having any timeline to work with.> > IDEAS > > Once we start packaging the betas, we could try to publish a lice CD > with every beta. It is supposed to be easy make them :)sure. Could probably easy be done.> OTHER STUFF > I think we have already somehow decided do not make kde4 and kde3 coexist.The applications, yes. I am not still convinced about kdelibs - but I might be when we get closer - but let us wait to finally decide when we get closer. Whattabout qt3 ? -- I cannot debug the floppy disk, how does it work? From ICQ you should mount a BIOS over a SCSI FPU. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-kde-talk/attachments/20070501/3964803e/attachment.pgp
* Ana Guerrero [Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:25:39 +0200]:> > I don''t know fully have decided what to do about kde3 for the future. Maybe > > starting with a amputated kde3libs (skipping khtml and maybe other parts as > > well) to keep some compability and skip the rest of kde3. Maybe just skip > > entire kde3. > > Most packages build-depending on kdebase-dev is window decorations - so that > > could easily go away. But really many packages uses kdelibs.> I would not worry about this until kde4 is released. Seriously.On the contrary, I think it''s crucial to have this path very well tested before uploading anything to unstable. Cheers, -- Adeodato Sim? dato at net.com.org.es Debian Developer adeodato at debian.org If you think nobody cares if you''re alive, try missing a couple of car payments. -- Earl Wilson
Hi! well.. we have now started. the alpha tarballs are located on alioth in pkg-kde homedir. Feel free to look into them. In ~pusling-guest/ is updated qt4 packages, soprano packages and updated strigi packages. About strigi - they will probably not end up looking like that. But they sholud somehow be useful. /Sune -- Man, do you know how could I do for exploring the memory address over a LCD program? You must install on the display for telnetting from the GUI. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-kde-talk/attachments/20070504/9eca5a03/attachment.pgp
On Fri, May 04, 2007 at 12:30:16PM +0200, Adeodato Sim? wrote:> * Ana Guerrero [Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:25:39 +0200]: > > > > I don''t know fully have decided what to do about kde3 for the future. Maybe > > > starting with a amputated kde3libs (skipping khtml and maybe other parts as > > > well) to keep some compability and skip the rest of kde3. Maybe just skip > > > entire kde3. > > > Most packages build-depending on kdebase-dev is window decorations - so that > > > could easily go away. But really many packages uses kdelibs. > > > I would not worry about this until kde4 is released. Seriously. > > On the contrary, I think it''s crucial to have this path very well tested > before uploading anything to unstable. >Yeah, but there is not date to upload to unstable yet :) Ana