pkg kde talk - Mar 2005 - [cross reading needed] kdeaccessibility ...

On Thursday 03 March 2005 01:28 pm, Pierre Habouzit
wrote:
> [kttsd bloat]
>
> I''ve not less than 5 packages for kttsd :
>
>   kttsd
>   kttsd-(epos|flite|festival)-syntplugin
>   kttsd-nonfree-plugins
>
> There is a README.Debian in kttsd, that explains the situation in [1]
>
> The split has been made because the plugins roughly system/exec some
> epos/flite/festival binaries.
> I''ve not tested if the lack of epos/flite/festival will make them
> segfault or no. But I fear users questions about them not working. So i
> prefer having them in separate packages, with dependencies on
> epos/flite/festival consequently.
>
> [1] http://tinyurl.com/5pcav
I don''t think it is necessary to split the epos|flite|festival|freetts
plugins
into separate packages.  When user configures kttsd, the plugins detect if 
the corresponding executables are available, and if not, disables that 
functionality.  In other words, user cannot configure that plugin.  This will 
be obvious to the user because each plugin asks for the path to the 
executable.  It will be less confusing for users to go ahead and include them 
in the kdeaccessibility package.  Also, users may wish to install the synth 
binaries after installing kdeaccessibility, in which case, kttsd will 
automatically adapt.

I''m also concerned how kttsd will behave if there are no synth plugins 
available at all.  I don''t think that code path has ever been tested.
:/
>   kttsd-nonfree-plugins
Since the synth plugins are runtime only dependent on the synths, I
don''t see
why non-free licences for the synths are an issue, but then I am not a debian 
packager.

-- 
Gary Cramblitt (aka PhantomsDad)
KDE Text-to-Speech Maintainer
http://accessibility.kde.org/developer/kttsd/index.php

On Thursday 03 March 2005 02:29 pm, Pierre Habouzit
wrote:
> > >   kttsd-nonfree-plugins
> >
> > Since the synth plugins are runtime only dependent on the synths, I
> > don''t see why non-free licences for the synths are an issue,
but then
> > I am not a debian packager.
>
> well, they are not nonfree, maybe I should name the package
> kttsd-contrib-plugins, but they rely on non free software to work, and
> thus cannot be part of main.
Well they do *work*, they just don''t offer any useful functionality if
the
non-free synth is not installed.  Or stated another way, user is free to 
install the kttsd plugins without being forced to install non-free synths.  I 
know, I''m splitting hairs. :)

BTW, the latest Festival (1.95beta) is available for free for unrestricted 
use. http://www.cstr.ed.ac.uk/projects/festival/freecopyright.html

-- 
Gary Cramblitt (aka PhantomsDad)
KDE Text-to-Speech Maintainer
http://accessibility.kde.org/developer/kttsd/index.php

On Thursday 03 March 2005 03:10 pm, Pierre Habouzit
wrote:
> the non free parts are (unless I''ve been mistaken) :
>  * FreeTTS
>  * Hadifix (mbrola)
Yes, I believe that is correct.  Epos is GPL (v2).  Festival is free.  Command 
is GPL.  Flite license is similar to Festival 1.4.

-- 
Gary Cramblitt (aka PhantomsDad)
KDE Text-to-Speech Maintainer
http://accessibility.kde.org/developer/kttsd/index.php

On Thursday 03 March 2005 03:26 pm, Pierre Habouzit
wrote:
> Le Jeu 3 Mars 2005 11:16, Gary Cramblitt a =C3=A9crit :
> > Command is GPL.
>
> hmm afaik, command means ''you can use any speech synthetizer that
has a
> command line here'' it does not rely on any specific backend does
he ?
Correct.  No specific backend.

=2D-=20
Gary Cramblitt (aka PhantomsDad)
KDE Text-to-Speech Maintainer
http://accessibility.kde.org/developer/kttsd/index.php

--nextPart1129272.x2V9NVdFHy
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="iso-8859-15"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

kdeaccessibility required quite a lot of work, and I''m not fully sure
I=20
always did the right choices.

There is still a couple of thing that needs answering/validation :

 * kttsd and ksayit have .h files that are kind of lost here.
   I really don''t know what to do with them, I''m not sure they
are
   helpfull at all, and I''m not sure they worth a kdeaccessiblity-dev

 * kttsd is split in many packages, due to the strong dependencies of
   some of them, I''ll explain later in the mail.

 * I''m not a english native speaker, and not very fluent, so
I''d be
   grateful to anybody that could check by debian/control entries.


moreover, feel free to criticize anything you find suspect. This was=20
quite the biggest package I ever worked on, and I''m far from
perfect,=20
and may really have forgotten things.


[kttsd bloat]

I''ve not less than 5 packages for kttsd :

  kttsd
  kttsd-(epos|flite|festival)-syntplugin
  kttsd-nonfree-plugins

There is a README.Debian in kttsd, that explains the situation in [1]

The split has been made because the plugins roughly system/exec some=20
epos/flite/festival binaries.
I''ve not tested if the lack of epos/flite/festival will make them=20
segfault or no. But I fear users questions about them not working. So i=20
prefer having them in separate packages, with dependencies on=20
epos/flite/festival consequently.

[1] http://tinyurl.com/5pcav
=2D-=20
=B7O=B7  Pierre Habouzit
=B7=B7O
OOO                                                http://www.madism.org

--nextPart1129272.x2V9NVdFHy
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBCJxEEvGr7W6HudhwRAqeCAJ9WB+utKt+GPSCRpTAQdC0yyde/CgCePJw+
omdIbNgJ62TQg8GAkfkSq3Q=hFRy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--nextPart1129272.x2V9NVdFHy--

--nextPart1316491.zDtntZtDHy
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

> I don''t think it is necessary to split the
> epos|flite|festival|freetts plugins into separate packages.  When
> user configures kttsd, the plugins detect if the corresponding
> executables are available, and if not, disables that functionality.=20
> In other words, user cannot configure that plugin.  This will be
> obvious to the user because each plugin asks for the path to the
> executable.  It will be less confusing for users to go ahead and
> include them in the kdeaccessibility package.  Also, users may wish
> to install the synth binaries after installing kdeaccessibility, in
> which case, kttsd will automatically adapt.
>
> I''m also concerned how kttsd will behave if there are no synth
> plugins available at all.  I don''t think that code path has ever
been
> tested. :/
there is the kttsd command plugin that is allways here.

but if you are sure that the plugins won''t be affected by
installation=20
of e.g. epos, and a further removal, then it''s fine, maybe
I''ll play=20
with suggests: fields and merge the kttsd and its 3 separate plugin=20
packages.

what does the other here think about it ?
> >   kttsd-nonfree-plugins
>
> Since the synth plugins are runtime only dependent on the synths, I
> don''t see why non-free licences for the synths are an issue, but
then
> I am not a debian packager.
well, they are not nonfree, maybe I should name the package=20
kttsd-contrib-plugins, but they rely on non free software to work, and=20
thus cannot be part of main.

=2D-=20
=C2=B7O=C2=B7  Pierre Habouzit
=C2=B7=C2=B7O
OOO                                                http://www.madism.org

--nextPart1316491.zDtntZtDHy
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBCJx8zvGr7W6HudhwRAvq4AJ9lyns2IWYJJ1Zsk6CrSV7wglbTMQCfS+/D
ouhKjvis4LIVQCHIvEm6rPY=tnti
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--nextPart1316491.zDtntZtDHy--

--nextPart1136045.Xc1IdfJmdl
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

Le Jeu 3 Mars 2005 10:46, Gary Cramblitt a =C3=A9crit :
> On Thursday 03 March 2005 02:29 pm, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> > > >   kttsd-nonfree-plugins
> > >
> > > Since the synth plugins are runtime only dependent on the synths,
> > > I don''t see why non-free licences for the synths are an
issue,
> > > but then I am not a debian packager.
> >
> > well, they are not nonfree, maybe I should name the package
> > kttsd-contrib-plugins, but they rely on non free software to work,
> > and thus cannot be part of main.
>
> Well they do *work*, they just don''t offer any useful
functionality
> if the non-free synth is not installed.  Or stated another way, user
> is free to install the kttsd plugins without being forced to install
> non-free synths.  I know, I''m splitting hairs. :)
well, they lose all their functionnality and thus are not considered=20
working in a DFSG point of view

moreover, this pointed for users out that those plugins exists.
> BTW, the latest Festival (1.95beta) is available for free for
> unrestricted use.
> http://www.cstr.ed.ac.uk/projects/festival/freecopyright.html
festival is in debian (version 1.4.3 IIRC) and is free.

the non free parts are (unless I''ve been mistaken) :
 * FreeTTS
 * Hadifix (mbrola)

moreover they are not packaged in debian, and just for that, they have a=20
second reaseon to go into contrib/

=2D-=20
=C2=B7O=C2=B7  Pierre Habouzit
=C2=B7=C2=B7O
OOO                                                http://www.madism.org

--nextPart1136045.Xc1IdfJmdl
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBCJyjlvGr7W6HudhwRAvNsAJ95pauwTwJ1L96MW2XMUM3aGqrmMQCfUJew
OiqBK92oXWXZltzTsT7EF/M=9hMO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--nextPart1136045.Xc1IdfJmdl--

--nextPart3890494.F45MY0mJqi
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

Le Jeu 3 Mars 2005 11:16, Gary Cramblitt a =C3=A9crit :
> Command is GPL.
hmm afaik, command means ''you can use any speech synthetizer that has
a=20
command line here'' it does not rely on any specific backend does he ?

=2D-=20
=C2=B7O=C2=B7  Pierre Habouzit
=C2=B7=C2=B7O
OOO                                                http://www.madism.org

--nextPart3890494.F45MY0mJqi
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBCJyyRvGr7W6HudhwRAijgAJ4gSDgO57qPtLi8SSG3POw5GjzG8gCgmGkA
rnBsDvsO8XU3q87MpGxvr4Y=9UgJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--nextPart3890494.F45MY0mJqi--

On Thursday 03 March 2005 10:55 pm, Pierre Habouzit
wrote:
> Le Jeu 3 Mars 2005 10:18, Gary Cramblitt a =C3=A9crit :
> > I don''t think it is necessary to split the
> > epos|flite|festival|freetts plugins into separate packages.
>
> after some second thought, and because I really dislike a new package
> for only 3 files, I think I''ll put all kttsd together (apart from
the
> plugins relying on non free software).
>
> I''ll also provide a recomends like :
>
> Recomends : festival | flite | epos
>
> but I chose this order only because festival is a nice name ;)
> so if you know a synth plugin is better, then tell me, so that aptitude
> users have it by default ;)
>
> (i don''t want a recomends: festival, flite, epos since aptitude
users
> will have the three installed, and that''s clearly an overkill)
Yes, Festival is the "best" choice of the free synths.  (Actually the
best=20
choice of all the synths. )

=2D-=20
Gary Cramblitt (aka PhantomsDad)
KDE Text-to-Speech Maintainer
http://accessibility.kde.org/developer/kttsd/index.php

--nextPart6280420.8qhCW9OXE5
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

Le Jeu 3 Mars 2005 10:18, Gary Cramblitt a =C3=A9crit :
> I don''t think it is necessary to split the
> epos|flite|festival|freetts plugins into separate packages.
after some second thought, and because I really dislike a new package=20
for only 3 files, I think I''ll put all kttsd together (apart from
the=20
plugins relying on non free software).

I''ll also provide a recomends like :

Recomends : festival | flite | epos

but I chose this order only because festival is a nice name ;)
so if you know a synth plugin is better, then tell me, so that aptitude=20
users have it by default ;)

(i don''t want a recomends: festival, flite, epos since aptitude
users=20
will have the three installed, and that''s clearly an overkill)

thanks
=2D-=20
=C2=B7O=C2=B7  Pierre Habouzit
=C2=B7=C2=B7O
OOO                                                http://www.madism.org

--nextPart6280420.8qhCW9OXE5
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBCJ5XfvGr7W6HudhwRAkiDAKCgDx1DYos8TcpuNwV4TJHGzMRXDwCcDDaU
5wpJadb3f4YRzZ4FL1BJVcw=NoEN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--nextPart6280420.8qhCW9OXE5--

--nextPart7771333.jikHyrO3ha
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="iso-8859-15"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

Le Jeu 3 Mars 2005 14:28, Pierre Habouzit a =E9crit :
> kdeaccessibility required quite a lot of work, and I''m not fully
sure
> I always did the right choices.
ok, I feel quite confident with the current state of kdeaccessibility.

I''ll upload them to alioth as soon as Gary answers me wrt the best
TTS=20
plugin.

I guess kdeutils will be really easy to package, so will there be=20
anything else to do ?

=2D-=20
=B7O=B7  Pierre Habouzit
=B7=B7O
OOO                                                http://www.madism.org

--nextPart7771333.jikHyrO3ha
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBCJ5q6vGr7W6HudhwRAhUpAJ4m7QC0Wam9WDvovVuJoyXBZIARNQCfeRcR
7VdJvi5gHghDj64sg4C2J9c=XFKy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--nextPart7771333.jikHyrO3ha--

--nextPart1350304.Bvq3gz3gR3
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

Le Jeu 3 Mars 2005 19:19, Gary Cramblitt a =C3=A9crit :
> On Thursday 03 March 2005 10:55 pm, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> > Le Jeu 3 Mars 2005 10:18, Gary Cramblitt a =C3=A9crit :
> > > I don''t think it is necessary to split the
> > > epos|flite|festival|freetts plugins into separate packages.
> >
> > after some second thought, and because I really dislike a new
> > package for only 3 files, I think I''ll put all kttsd together
> > (apart from the plugins relying on non free software).
> >
> > I''ll also provide a recomends like :
> >
> > Recomends : festival | flite | epos
> >
> > but I chose this order only because festival is a nice name ;)
> > so if you know a synth plugin is better, then tell me, so that
> > aptitude users have it by default ;)
> >
> > (i don''t want a recomends: festival, flite, epos since
aptitude
> > users will have the three installed, and that''s clearly an
> > overkill)
>
> Yes, Festival is the "best" choice of the free synths.  (Actually
the
> best choice of all the synths. )
marvelous.

thank you for your patience ;)
=2D-=20
=C2=B7O=C2=B7  Pierre Habouzit
=C2=B7=C2=B7O
OOO                                                http://www.madism.org

--nextPart1350304.Bvq3gz3gR3
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBCJ6GRvGr7W6HudhwRAsGjAJ0Y39AJjgTXIwHcyNzQ9npPBV+auACeMV1N
2uJxLP7TNAdesMvt2xD5JoA=Jhwa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--nextPart1350304.Bvq3gz3gR3--

On Thursday 03 March 2005 11:45 pm, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> thank you for your patience ;)
Thank you!

Not being a packager, how might I get a look at your packages?  Is that 
allowed?  I''ve looked at the alioth website, but ended up in a stale
cvs
tree.

Thanks.

-- 
Gary Cramblitt (aka PhantomsDad)
KDE Text-to-Speech Maintainer
http://accessibility.kde.org/developer/kttsd/index.php

--nextPart1188137.at3l6VVTbb
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

Le Ven 4 Mars 2005 08:57, Gary Cramblitt a =C3=A9crit :
> On Thursday 03 March 2005 11:45 pm, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> > thank you for your patience ;)
>
> Thank you!
>
> Not being a packager, how might I get a look at your packages?  Is
> that allowed? =20
of course !
> I''ve looked at the alioth website, but ended up in a=20
> stale cvs tree.
svn://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-kde/branches/kde-3.4.0

to have the debian dirs

or you can get them from http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde-3.4.0/

=2D-=20
=C2=B7O=C2=B7  Pierre Habouzit
=C2=B7=C2=B7O
OOO                                                http://www.madism.org

--nextPart1188137.at3l6VVTbb
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBCKGhavGr7W6HudhwRAmPKAKCopTvOVEwvYHnPRv8ilkewdDm5ZgCeJgu/
jkIvF8Cl8hBICq6VEnLXNog=a0xZ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--nextPart1188137.at3l6VVTbb--

On Friday 04 March 2005 01:53 pm, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> svn://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-kde/branches/kde-3.4.0
>
> to have the debian dirs
>
> or you can get them from http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde-3.4.0/
Are these available for general consumption?

If not, can I announce them on kde-accessibility mailing list so each 
kdeaccessibility programmer can check them?

I gave the kttsd packages a quick look and they are OK.  Thanks.

I was also wondering how translations are handled?

-- 
Gary Cramblitt (aka PhantomsDad)
KDE Text-to-Speech Maintainer
http://accessibility.kde.org/developer/kttsd/index.php

--nextPart1206951.vamv6dkG2q
Content-Type: text/plain;
  charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

Le Sam 5 Mars 2005 17:02, Gary Cramblitt a =C3=A9crit :
> On Friday 04 March 2005 01:53 pm, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> > svn://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-kde/branches/kde-3.4.0
> >
> > to have the debian dirs
> >
> > or you can get them from
> > http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde-3.4.0/
>
> Are these available for general consumption?
see them as version that will be really near the final ones.
> If not, can I announce them on kde-accessibility mailing list so each
> kdeaccessibility programmer can check them?
sure
> I was also wondering how translations are handled?
like all kde apps, through kde-i18n, which is atm not packaged.
=2D-=20
=C2=B7O=C2=B7  Pierre Habouzit
=C2=B7=C2=B7O
OOO                                                http://www.madism.org

--nextPart1206951.vamv6dkG2q
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQBCKih/vGr7W6HudhwRAt8hAJ4osi56rFrIBqDg0w0gfh+DX4PjPACff+NN
wCkb88gWqtY2onKlncDeROw=LD/4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--nextPart1206951.vamv6dkG2q--