Pkg exim4 users - Oct 2007 - edge exim4 *always* adds Sender: field?

( a postscript to my previous mail.  The Sender: field only gets
inserted when I am setting From:, Reply-To and Errors-to: to my
real sbcglobal.net addresses via MH.  If I just use a plain vanilla
"mail dye1146 at sbcglobal.net", the "Sender:" field is not
inserted....)

--Ken


My external mail is handled by MH (incoming via fetchmail, outgoing 
sent by exim4/smarthost with specific From:, Reply-To: and Errors-to
fields set,  and a trivial exim4 config).  I recently upgraded from
sarge to edge, and am now getting some outgoing mail being dropped
because of the Sender: field being inserted by exim4.

I spent a few hours reading/googling, found and commented out
the

.ifndef MAIN_FORCE_SENDER
#local_from_check = false
#local_sender_retain = true
#untrusted_set_sender = *
.endif

section in exim4.conf.template, and this seemed to stop it from
inserting a bogus sender field.  It still, however, adds a Sender:
field, but a more proper one that passes sbcglobal.net''s filter
(I couldn''t send mail to myself!).

It used to send "dye at slider.debian.org", which was being rejected.
It now sends "Sender: dye <dye at
adsl-76-223-40-186.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net>"
(my /etc/mailname gets updated whenever my non-static IP address changes).

Sarge used to NEVER insert a Sender: field, which is really what I want.

Is there a way to accomplish this?

--Ken

On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:20:07AM -0500, Ken R. Dye
wrote:
> ( a postscript to my previous mail.  The Sender: field only gets
> inserted when I am setting From:, Reply-To and Errors-to: to my
> real sbcglobal.net addresses via MH.  If I just use a plain vanilla
> "mail dye1146 at sbcglobal.net", the "Sender:" field is
not inserted....)
What do your logs say?

Do you know how mh delivers the messages to exim?
> My external mail is handled by MH (incoming via fetchmail, outgoing 
> sent by exim4/smarthost with specific From:, Reply-To: and Errors-to
> fields set,  and a trivial exim4 config).  I recently upgraded from
> sarge to edge, and am now getting some outgoing mail being dropped
> because of the Sender: field being inserted by exim4.
> 
> I spent a few hours reading/googling, found and commented out
> the
> 
> .ifndef MAIN_FORCE_SENDER
> #local_from_check = false
> #local_sender_retain = true
> #untrusted_set_sender = *
> .endif
You commented out the settings that allow you to set your arbitrary
sender, doing exactly the opposite what you want and what would be the
default.

You might want to read spec.txt chapter 44.16, or grep spec.txt for
"Sender:". The documentation is rather verbose.
> It used to send "dye at slider.debian.org", which was being
rejected.
> It now sends "Sender: dye <dye at
adsl-76-223-40-186.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net>"
> (my /etc/mailname gets updated whenever my non-static IP address changes).
Why do you update your /etc/mailname?
> Is there a way to accomplish this?
It should be the default.

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         | "I don''t trust Computers. They | Mailadresse
im Header
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Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 3221 2323190

mh+pkg-exim4-users at zugschlus.de said:
> 
> On Wed, Oct 03, 2007 at 09:20:07AM -0500, Ken R. Dye wrote:
> > ( a postscript to my previous mail.  The Sender: field only gets
> > inserted when I am setting From:, Reply-To and Errors-to: to my
> > real sbcglobal.net addresses via MH.  If I just use a plain vanilla
> > "mail dye1146 at sbcglobal.net", the "Sender:"
field is not inserted....)
> 
> What do your logs say?
Plain old "mail"

2007-10-05 08:04:41 1IdmrB-0001RS-Ep <= dye at
adsl-76-223-44-235.dsl.chcgil.sbcgl
obal.net U=dye P=local S=465
2007-10-05 08:04:42 1IdmrB-0001RS-Ep => dye1146 at sbcglobal.net R=smarthost 
T=remote_smtp_smarthost H=mail.sbcglobal.net [207.115.36.24]
2007-10-05 08:04:42 1IdmrB-0001RS-Ep Completed

MH "comp":

2007-10-05 08:06:04 1IdmsW-0001Ra-7S <= dye at
adsl-76-223-44-235.dsl.chcgil.sbcgl
obal.net U=dye P=local-esmtp S=610
2007-10-05 08:06:04 1IdmsW-0001Ra-7S => dye1146 at sbcglobal.net R=smarthost 
T=remote_smtp_smarthost H=mail.sbcglobal.net [207.115.36.24]
2007-10-05 08:06:04 1IdmsW-0001Ra-7S Completed
> 
> Do you know how mh delivers the messages to exim?
> 
execve("/usr/sbin/sendmail", ["sendmail", "-bs",
"-odb", "-oem", "-om"], [/*
46 vars */]) = 0

Sendmail is a soft link to exim4
> > My external mail is handled by MH (incoming via fetchmail, outgoing 
> > sent by exim4/smarthost with specific From:, Reply-To: and Errors-to
> > fields set,  and a trivial exim4 config).  I recently upgraded from
> > sarge to edge, and am now getting some outgoing mail being dropped
> > because of the Sender: field being inserted by exim4.
> > 
> > I spent a few hours reading/googling, found and commented out
> > the
> > 
> > .ifndef MAIN_FORCE_SENDER
> > #local_from_check = false
> > #local_sender_retain = true
> > #untrusted_set_sender = *
> > .endif
> 
> You commented out the settings that allow you to set your arbitrary
> sender, doing exactly the opposite what you want and what would be the
> default.
The commenting out did not appear to change anything other than what the 
"Sender:" field that was being forcibly injected into the message
contained.
 
> 
> You might want to read spec.txt chapter 44.16, or grep spec.txt for
> "Sender:". The documentation is rather verbose.
Yeah, just what I was trying to avoid.  I would hope an upgrade from sarge to
edge using a trivial exim4 config would not require headaches like
this.
> 
> > It used to send "dye at slider.debian.org", which was being
rejected.
> > It now sends "Sender: dye <dye at
adsl-76-223-40-186.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net>"
> > (my /etc/mailname gets updated whenever my non-static IP address
changes).
> 
> Why do you update your /etc/mailname?
So I can have an easy, short lifespan email address that I don''t have
to worry
about getting spamified.  If it does, just bring DSL up/down and get a new
one.
> 
> > Is there a way to accomplish this?
> 
> It should be the default.
That is what I am saying....it *was* the default (that is, not injecting
a "sender:" field into the mssage) in sarge....why was it changed for
edge?

--Ken

On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 09:21:39AM -0500, Ken R. Dye
wrote:
> mh+pkg-exim4-users at zugschlus.de said:
> MH "comp":
> 
> 2007-10-05 08:06:04 1IdmsW-0001Ra-7S <= dye at
adsl-76-223-44-235.dsl.chcgil.sbcgl
> obal.net U=dye P=local-esmtp S=610
> 2007-10-05 08:06:04 1IdmsW-0001Ra-7S => dye1146 at sbcglobal.net
R=smarthost
> T=remote_smtp_smarthost H=mail.sbcglobal.net [207.115.36.24]
> 2007-10-05 08:06:04 1IdmsW-0001Ra-7S Completed
> 
> > 
> > Do you know how mh delivers the messages to exim?
> > 
> 
> execve("/usr/sbin/sendmail", ["sendmail",
"-bs", "-odb", "-oem", "-om"], [/*
> 46 vars */]) = 0
> 
> Sendmail is a soft link to exim4
So, mh talks SMTP on a pipe to exim, which is a rather unusual method
of delivering e-mail.
> > You commented out the settings that allow you to set your arbitrary
> > sender, doing exactly the opposite what you want and what would be the
> > default.
> 
> The commenting out did not appear to change anything other than what the 
> "Sender:" field that was being forcibly injected into the message
contained.
Are you positive that it is exim inserting the Sender:-Header?

Try: swaks --pipe ''exim -bs'' --from <your address> --to
<other address>

and see whether the generated message has a Sender header. If it
doesn''t, then you need to yell at mh, not at exim.
> > You might want to read spec.txt chapter 44.16, or grep spec.txt for
> > "Sender:". The documentation is rather verbose.
> 
> Yeah, just what I was trying to avoid.
Running a mail server is rocket science, you cannot get along without
reading docs.
>   I would hope an upgrade from sarge to edge using a trivial exim4
>   config would not require headaches like this.
Upgrading from sarge to etch (sic!) generally does not require
headaches from the exim side.
> > > It used to send "dye at slider.debian.org", which was
being rejected.
> > > It now sends "Sender: dye <dye at
adsl-76-223-40-186.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net>"
> > > (my /etc/mailname gets updated whenever my non-static IP address
changes).
> > 
> > Why do you update your /etc/mailname?
> 
> So I can have an easy, short lifespan email address that I don''t
have to worry
> about getting spamified.  If it does, just bring DSL up/down and get a new
one.
I see.
> > > Is there a way to accomplish this?
> > 
> > It should be the default.
> 
> That is what I am saying....it *was* the default (that is, not injecting
> a "sender:" field into the mssage) in sarge... why was it changed
for edge?
as far as I know, the default was not changed. I cannot reproduce your
issue here.

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         | "I don''t trust Computers. They | Mailadresse
im Header
Mannheim, Germany  |  lose things."    Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 3221 2323190

mh+pkg-exim4-users at zugschlus.de said:
> > > 
> > > Do you know how mh delivers the messages to exim?
> > > 
>  > 
> > execve("/usr/sbin/sendmail", ["sendmail",
"-bs", "-odb", "-oem", "-om"], [/*
> > 46 vars */]) = 0
> > 
> > Sendmail is a soft link to exim4
> 
> So, mh talks SMTP on a pipe to exim, which is a rather unusual method
> of delivering e-mail.
I changed the conf so it now just does an SMTP socket to localhost.
"sendmail" was the default.
> 
> > > You commented out the settings that allow you to set your
arbitrary
> > > sender, doing exactly the opposite what you want and what would
be the
> > > default.
> > 
> > The commenting out did not appear to change anything other than what
the
> > "Sender:" field that was being forcibly injected into the
message contained.
> 
> Are you positive that it is exim inserting the Sender:-Header?
> 
> Try: swaks --pipe ''exim -bs'' --from <your address>
--to <other address>
> 
> and see whether the generated message has a Sender header. If it
> doesn''t, then you need to yell at mh, not at exim.
> 
> > > You might want to read spec.txt chapter 44.16, or grep spec.txt
for
> > > "Sender:". The documentation is rather verbose.
> > 
> > Yeah, just what I was trying to avoid.
> 
> Running a mail server is rocket science, you cannot get along without
> reading docs.
Yes, I suppose that is necessary, especially when I insist on using
an early 1980''s email system!

What tripped me up was my dicking w/the MAIN_FORCE_SENDER sendings,
which affected what the Sender: field was being set to...and not
the fact that *why* the Sender: field was being sent at all.  Anti-forgery
default settings in MH started the initation of that field...exim4 was just
changing it.

Thanks for your work on this code, and pointing me in the right
direction.

--Ken

mh+pkg-exim4-users at zugschlus.de said:
> > > 
> > > Do you know how mh delivers the messages to exim?
> > > 
>  > 
> > execve("/usr/sbin/sendmail", ["sendmail",
"-bs", "-odb", "-oem", "-om"], [/*
> > 46 vars */]) = 0
> > 
> > Sendmail is a soft link to exim4
> 
> So, mh talks SMTP on a pipe to exim, which is a rather unusual method
> of delivering e-mail.
I changed the conf so it now just does an SMTP socket to localhost.
"sendmail" was the default.
> 
> > > You commented out the settings that allow you to set your
arbitrary
> > > sender, doing exactly the opposite what you want and what would
be the
> > > default.
> > 
> > The commenting out did not appear to change anything other than what
the
> > "Sender:" field that was being forcibly injected into the
message contained.
> 
> Are you positive that it is exim inserting the Sender:-Header?
> 
> Try: swaks --pipe ''exim -bs'' --from <your address>
--to <other address>
> 
> and see whether the generated message has a Sender header. If it
> doesn''t, then you need to yell at mh, not at exim.
> 
> > > You might want to read spec.txt chapter 44.16, or grep spec.txt
for
> > > "Sender:". The documentation is rather verbose.
> > 
> > Yeah, just what I was trying to avoid.
> 
> Running a mail server is rocket science, you cannot get along without
> reading docs.
Yes, I suppose that is necessary, especially when I insist on using
an early 1980''s email system!

What tripped me up was my dicking w/the MAIN_FORCE_SENDER sendings,
which affected what the Sender: field was being set to...and not
the fact that *why* the Sender: field was being sent at all.  Anti-forgery
default settings in MH started the initation of that field...exim4 was just
changing it.

Thanks for your work on this code, and pointing me in the right
direction.

--Ken

On Wed, Oct 10, 2007 at 11:14:45AM -0500, Ken R. Dye
wrote:
> mh+pkg-exim4-users at zugschlus.de said:
> > > > Do you know how mh delivers the messages to exim?
> > > > 
> >  > 
> > > execve("/usr/sbin/sendmail", ["sendmail",
"-bs", "-odb", "-oem", "-om"], [/*
> > > 46 vars */]) = 0
> > > 
> > > Sendmail is a soft link to exim4
> > 
> > So, mh talks SMTP on a pipe to exim, which is a rather unusual method
> > of delivering e-mail.
> 
> I changed the conf so it now just does an SMTP socket to localhost.
> "sendmail" was the default.
Please notice, that sendmail and sendmail -bs are two quite different
things. The thing that is unusual is -bs. I probably didn''t make that
very clear in my preceding message.
> Yes, I suppose that is necessary, especially when I insist on using
> an early 1980''s email system!
Especially then, yes. I remember using mh myself when I started with
unix in 1992, using it for a couple of years before moving over to mutt.
> What tripped me up was my dicking w/the MAIN_FORCE_SENDER sendings,
> which affected what the Sender: field was being set to...and not
> the fact that *why* the Sender: field was being sent at all.  Anti-forgery
> default settings in MH started the initation of that field...
That''s what I suspected.
> exim4 was just changing it.
Sure? 

I have tried this (on an exim in default configuration, meaning that the
  .ifndef MAIN_FORCE_SENDER
  local_from_check = false
  local_sender_retain = true
  untrusted_set_sender = *
  .endif
was still in place) and it does not change the Sender: field.

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         | "I don''t trust Computers. They | Mailadresse
im Header
Mannheim, Germany  |  lose things."    Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 3221 2323190