openssh unix dev - Jan 2015 - RE: Fwd: [Cryptography] Why aren’t we using SSH for everything?

Damien,

What is the best document to use for documentation on SFTP?  In other words, if
I want to build an SFTP client library based on libssh.a, is there documentation
about the series of messages I need to send over the wire?

Thanks,

ScottN


-----Original Message-----
From: openssh-unix-dev [mailto:openssh-unix-dev-bounces+scott_n=xypro.com at
mindrot.org] On Behalf Of Damien Miller
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2015 3:58 PM
To: grarpamp
Cc: openssh-unix-dev at mindrot.org
Subject: Re: Fwd: [Cryptography] Why aren?t we using SSH for everything?

All our protocol extensions are documented in PROTOCOL.* in our source.
Other open-source implementations have adopted some of our extensions (e.g.
OpenSSH certificates in Go's x/crypto/ssh, chacha20-poly1305 in
tinyssh) and we have adopted extensions from other open-source implementations
(e.g. curve25519-sha256 at libssh.org).

I've kinda given up trying to write things up for the IETF. It's
dominated by commerical vendors and people with more inclination to argue on
mailing lists than write good software (cf. the sftp process).

-d

On Mon, 5 Jan 2015, grarpamp wrote:
> There were a few notes in this thread that may indicate open areas for 
> development. I forward merely as FYI.
> 
> http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2015-January/024231.htm
> l
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Peter Gutmann <pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz>
> Date: Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 9:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cryptography] Why aren?t we using SSH for everything?
> To: calestyo at scientia.net, pgut001 at cs.auckland.ac.nz
> Cc: cryptography at metzdowd.com
> 
> Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo at scientia.net> writes:
> >On Sun, 2015-01-04 at 18:54 +1300, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> >> TLS finally fixed this after a year-long battle to get the change 
> >> accepted.  I also suggested it to the SSH folks but they
weren't
> >> interested, and after the fight it took to get it into TLS I just 
> >> didn't have the energy to go through the same thing for SSH.
> >
> >$ ssh -Q mac | grep etm
> >hmac-sha1-etm at openssh.com
> >hmac-sha1-96-etm at openssh.com
> >hmac-sha2-256-etm at openssh.com
> >hmac-sha2-512-etm at openssh.com
> >hmac-md5-etm at openssh.com
> >hmac-md5-96-etm at openssh.com
> >hmac-ripemd160-etm at openssh.com
> >umac-64-etm at openssh.com
> >umac-128-etm at openssh.com
> 
> I've done the same thing, but the problem is that a bunch of 
> (probably) incompatible vendor-specific extensions doesn't profit the 
> community as a whole.  If anyone from OpenSSH would like to get in 
> touch, we can (a) see if what we're doing is interoperable and (b) 
> document it in an RFC for general adoption.
> 
> Peter.
> _______________________________________________
> The cryptography mailing list
> cryptography at metzdowd.com
> http://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
> _______________________________________________
> openssh-unix-dev mailing list
> openssh-unix-dev at mindrot.org
> https://lists.mindrot.org/mailman/listinfo/openssh-unix-dev
> 
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On Tue, 6 Jan 2015, Scott Neugroschl wrote:
> Damien,
>
> What is the best document to use for documentation on SFTP? In other
> words, if I want to build an SFTP client library based on libssh.a, is
> there documentation about the series of messages I need to send over
> the wire?
http://www.openssh.com/txt/draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-02.txt plus the
mistakes and extensions documented in the PROTOCOL file in the source
tree.

-d

Le 6/01/15 05:54, Damien Miller a ?crit :
> On Tue, 6 Jan 2015, Scott Neugroschl wrote:
>
>> Damien,
>>
>> What is the best document to use for documentation on SFTP? In other
>> words, if I want to build an SFTP client library based on libssh.a, is
>> there documentation about the series of messages I need to send over
>> the wire?
> http://www.openssh.com/txt/draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-02.txt plus the
> mistakes and extensions documented in the PROTOCOL file in the source
> tree.
>
> -d
It's a shame there is no final version of the SFTP protocol, but more
than 7 (IIRC) incompatible versions. It's understandable that OpenSSH
ended up with sftpv3 + custom messages.
<ad>use libssh from libssh.org if you want an sftp client lib
:)</ad>

Aris