xen discuss - Oct 2010 - XEN on OpenIndiana

Hi

If i compile the XEN/Solaris Kernel on OpenIndiana how long the sources will be
maintained? I have asked but OpenIndiana dosen''t support XEN with
Solaris. Would it be critical for security to run a box some years in the
Internet with the same Kernel of Solaris?

Solaris + XEN + Crossbow + OpenSource = Killercombo

Oracle VM is definitely not that what I am searching

best regards
Darko Hojnik
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Are you looking for Solaris as a dom0? If not then why not just run it
in an HVM container as a domU. The PV drivers should ''just
work''.

  Paul

On 14 October 2010 01:03, Darko Hojnik <no-reply@opensolaris.org>
wrote:
> Hi
>
> If i compile the XEN/Solaris Kernel on OpenIndiana how long the sources
will be maintained? I have asked but OpenIndiana dosen''t support XEN
with Solaris. Would it be critical for security to run a box some years in the
Internet with the same Kernel of Solaris?
>
> Solaris + XEN + Crossbow + OpenSource = Killercombo
>
> Oracle VM is definitely not that what I am searching
>
> best regards
> Darko Hojnik
> --
> This message posted from opensolaris.org
> _______________________________________________
> xen-discuss mailing list
> xen-discuss@opensolaris.org
>


-- 
Paul Durrant
http://www.linkedin.com/in/pdurrant

> Are you looking for Solaris as a dom0? If not then why not just run it
> in an HVM container as a domU. The PV drivers should ''just
work''.
> 
>   Paul
> 
> On 14 October 2010 01:03, Darko Hojnik <no-reply@opensolaris.org>
wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > If i compile the XEN/Solaris Kernel on OpenIndiana how long the
sources will be maintained? I have asked but OpenIndiana dosen''t
support XEN with Solaris. Would it be critical for security to run a box some
years in the Internet with the same Kernel of Solaris?
> >
> > Solaris + XEN + Crossbow + OpenSource = Killercombo
> >
> > Oracle VM is definitely not that what I am searching
I am not the OP but he is definitely looking for Solaris as dom0.
So am I.  Someone needs to do the work, though.  Welcome to RL.

As long as I don''t have anything to contribute, I can''t really
complain. :-(


Regards -- Volker
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Volker A. Brandt               Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH                   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim                     Email: vab@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513              Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt

+1
Osol + XVM + zfs vols + snapshots was/is VERY COOL.

----- Mail Original -----
De: "Volker A. Brandt" <vab@bb-c.de>
À: "Paul Durrant" <pdurrant@gmail.com>
Cc: "Darko Hojnik" <no-reply@opensolaris.org>,
xen-discuss@opensolaris.org
Envoyé: Jeudi 14 Octobre 2010 11h02:27 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Berne /
Rome / Stockholm / Vienne
Objet: Re: [xen-discuss] XEN on OpenIndiana
> Are you looking for Solaris as a dom0? If not then why not just run it
> in an HVM container as a domU. The PV drivers should 'just work'.
> 
>   Paul
> 
> On 14 October 2010 01:03, Darko Hojnik <no-reply@opensolaris.org>
wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > If i compile the XEN/Solaris Kernel on OpenIndiana how long the
sources will be maintained? I have asked but OpenIndiana dosen't support XEN
with Solaris. Would it be critical for security to run a box some years in the
Internet with the same Kernel of Solaris?
> >
> > Solaris + XEN + Crossbow + OpenSource = Killercombo
> >
> > Oracle VM is definitely not that what I am searching
I am not the OP but he is definitely looking for Solaris as dom0.
So am I.  Someone needs to do the work, though.  Welcome to RL.

As long as I don't have anything to contribute, I can't really 
complain. :-(


Regards -- Volker
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Volker A. Brandt               Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH                   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim                     Email: vab@bb-c.de
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513              Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt
_______________________________________________
xen-discuss mailing list
xen-discuss@opensolaris.org
_______________________________________________
opensolaris-discuss mailing list
opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org

Bruno Damour <llama@ruomad.net> writes:
> +1
> Osol + XVM + zfs vols + snapshots was/is VERY COOL.

oh yes.  I lack the skill to make it happen, but if someone with the
skill is passing the hat I''d donate some money to the cause. Local 
disk, for most things, really is better than network disk, and 
linux/NetBSD lack a suitable scheme for managing partitions and 
snapshots.  Right now I''m using Linux/LVM and the snapshot capabilities
may as well be non-existant due to the performance penalties.  also, 
the ability to use a SSD zil would go a long ways to making my sata 
disks perform acceptably. 



-- 
Luke S. Crawford
http://prgmr.com/xen/         -   Hosting for the technically adept
http://nostarch.com/xen.htm   -   We don''t assume you are stupid.

I am running the following configuration:

 - debian as dom 0
 - solaris as a PV domU
 - 4 disks fully reserved to the solaris domU
 - solaris running as a disk-server with zfs on these 4 disks
 - zfs-volumes exported from solaris as iSCSI-devices
 - these devices imported back to dom0, used as basis for other domU-s

I am also planning on running domU-s with linux booting directly from the
iSCSI-devices with PXE, which would enable me to migrate these freely between
servers independent of the actual disk-HW, but I haven''t yet looked in
to getting linux to boot from iSCSI.

I can provide further details (config-files, scripts, commands) if anyone are
interrested.
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Personally, I think it''s a mistake for Oracle to use Linux instead of
Solaris as
the OS in their VM Server for x86 product. There are clear advantages to using 
Solaris + ZFS + COMSTAR + Crossbow + everything else! It would really help 
Oracle to differentiate itself from Citrix, Red Hat, and Novell in the Xen 
space. 


However, I do wonder if it''s possible to elevate VirtualBox to a type 1
hypervisor ontop of Solaris. That might be even more interesting.

Otherwise, I''m still happy that LDoms, now Oracle VM Server for SPARC,
is still
around and an integral part of all future SPARC products.Definitely a better 
architecture than Xen if you ask me.

 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Octave J. Orgeron
Solaris Virtualization Architect and Consultant
Web: http://unixconsole.blogspot.com
E-Mail: unixconsole-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*



----- Original Message ----
From: Luke S Crawford <lsc-J6uJde8TjwwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
To: Bruno Damour <llama-Kxo0ROHQHYisTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
Cc: opensolaris-discuss
<opensolaris-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org>;
xen-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org
Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 5:52:48 AM
Subject: Re: [xen-discuss] XEN on OpenIndiana


Bruno Damour <llama-Kxo0ROHQHYisTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> writes:
> +1
> Osol + XVM + zfs vols + snapshots was/is VERY COOL.

oh yes.  I lack the skill to make it happen, but if someone with the
skill is passing the hat I''d donate some money to the cause. Local 
disk, for most things, really is better than network disk, and 
linux/NetBSD lack a suitable scheme for managing partitions and 
snapshots.  Right now I''m using Linux/LVM and the snapshot capabilities
may as well be non-existant due to the performance penalties.  also, 
the ability to use a SSD zil would go a long ways to making my sata 
disks perform acceptably. 



-- 
Luke S. Crawford
http://prgmr.com/xen/         -   Hosting for the technically adept
http://nostarch.com/xen.htm   -   We don''t assume you are stupid.  
_______________________________________________
xen-discuss mailing list
xen-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org

> Personally, I think it''s a mistake for Oracle to use Linux instead
of Solaris as
> the OS in their VM Server for x86 product. There are clear advantages to
using
> Solaris + ZFS + COMSTAR + Crossbow + everything else! It would really help 
> Oracle to differentiate itself from Citrix, Red Hat, and Novell in the Xen 
> space. 
How much you believe that cancel xVM  as FOSS is  cancel xVM for enterprise  ?

Boris.

--- On Thu, 10/14/10, Octave Orgeron <unixconsole@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Octave Orgeron <unixconsole@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [xen-discuss] XEN on OpenIndiana
To: "Luke S Crawford" <lsc@prgmr.com>, "Bruno Damour"
<llama@ruomad.net>
Cc: "opensolaris-discuss" <opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org>,
xen-discuss@opensolaris.org
Date: Thursday, October 14, 2010, 11:29 AM

Personally, I think it''s a mistake for Oracle to use Linux instead of
Solaris as
the OS in their VM Server for x86 product. There are clear advantages to using 
Solaris + ZFS + COMSTAR + Crossbow + everything else! It would really help 
Oracle to differentiate itself from Citrix, Red Hat, and Novell in the Xen 
space. 


However, I do wonder if it''s possible to elevate VirtualBox to a type 1
hypervisor ontop of Solaris. That might be even more interesting.

Otherwise, I''m still happy that LDoms, now Oracle VM Server for SPARC,
is still
around and an integral part of all future SPARC products.Definitely a better 
architecture than Xen if you ask me.

 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Octave J. Orgeron
Solaris Virtualization Architect and Consultant
Web: http://unixconsole.blogspot.com
E-Mail: unixconsole@yahoo.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*



----- Original Message ----
From: Luke S Crawford <lsc@prgmr.com>
To: Bruno Damour <llama@ruomad.net>
Cc: opensolaris-discuss <opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org>; 
xen-discuss@opensolaris.org
Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 5:52:48 AM
Subject: Re: [xen-discuss] XEN on OpenIndiana


Bruno Damour <llama@ruomad.net> writes:
> +1
> Osol + XVM + zfs vols + snapshots was/is VERY COOL.

oh yes.  I lack the skill to make it happen, but if someone with the
skill is passing the hat I''d donate some money to the cause. Local 
disk, for most things, really is better than network disk, and 
linux/NetBSD lack a suitable scheme for managing partitions and 
snapshots.  Right now I''m using Linux/LVM and the snapshot capabilities
may as well be non-existant due to the performance penalties.  also, 
the ability to use a SSD zil would go a long ways to making my sata 
disks perform acceptably. 



-- 
Luke S. Crawford
http://prgmr.com/xen/         -   Hosting for the technically adept
http://nostarch.com/xen.htm   -   We don''t assume you are stupid.  
_______________________________________________
xen-discuss mailing list
xen-discuss@opensolaris.org



      
_______________________________________________
xen-discuss mailing list
xen-discuss@opensolaris.org

It''s been stated already: xVM is dead in Solaris (no dom0 in Solaris!),
the
"replacement" is OVM... Which is FREE and has a way better GUI!

     Matthias

You (Boris Derzhavets) wrote:
> > Personally, I think it''s a mistake for Oracle to use Linux
instead of Solaris as
> > the OS in their VM Server for x86 product. There are clear advantages
to using
> > Solaris + ZFS + COMSTAR + Crossbow + everything else! It would really
help
> > Oracle to differentiate itself from Citrix, Red Hat, and Novell in the
Xen
> > space. 
> 
> How much you believe that cancel xVM  as FOSS is  cancel xVM for
enterprise  ?
> 
> Boris.
> 
> --- On Thu, 10/14/10, Octave Orgeron
<unixconsole-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> From: Octave Orgeron
<unixconsole-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
> Subject: Re: [xen-discuss] XEN on OpenIndiana
> To: "Luke S Crawford"
<lsc-J6uJde8TjwwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>, "Bruno Damour"
<llama-Kxo0ROHQHYisTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
> Cc: "opensolaris-discuss"
<opensolaris-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org>,
xen-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org
> Date: Thursday, October 14, 2010, 11:29 AM
> 
> Personally, I think it''s a mistake for Oracle to use Linux instead
of Solaris as
> the OS in their VM Server for x86 product. There are clear advantages to
using
> Solaris + ZFS + COMSTAR + Crossbow + everything else! It would really help 
> Oracle to differentiate itself from Citrix, Red Hat, and Novell in the Xen 
> space. 
> 
> 
> However, I do wonder if it''s possible to elevate VirtualBox to a
type 1
> hypervisor ontop of Solaris. That might be even more interesting.
> 
> Otherwise, I''m still happy that LDoms, now Oracle VM Server for
SPARC, is still
> around and an integral part of all future SPARC products.Definitely a
better
> architecture than Xen if you ask me.
> 
> 
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> Octave J. Orgeron
> Solaris Virtualization Architect and Consultant
> Web: http://unixconsole.blogspot.com
> E-Mail: unixconsole-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
>
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Luke S Crawford <lsc-J6uJde8TjwwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
> To: Bruno Damour <llama-Kxo0ROHQHYisTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
> Cc: opensolaris-discuss
<opensolaris-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org>;
> xen-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org
> Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 5:52:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [xen-discuss] XEN on OpenIndiana
> 
> 
> Bruno Damour <llama-Kxo0ROHQHYisTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> writes:
> 
> > +1
> > Osol + XVM + zfs vols + snapshots was/is VERY COOL.
> 
> 
> oh yes.  I lack the skill to make it happen, but if someone with the
> skill is passing the hat I''d donate some money to the cause. Local
> disk, for most things, really is better than network disk, and 
> linux/NetBSD lack a suitable scheme for managing partitions and 
> snapshots.  Right now I''m using Linux/LVM and the snapshot
capabilities
> may as well be non-existant due to the performance penalties.  also, 
> the ability to use a SSD zil would go a long ways to making my sata 
> disks perform acceptably. 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Luke S. Crawford
> http://prgmr.com/xen/         -   Hosting for the technically adept
> http://nostarch.com/xen.htm   -   We don''t assume you are stupid. 
> _______________________________________________
> xen-discuss mailing list
> xen-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> xen-discuss mailing list
> xen-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org
> 
> 
> 
>       
> _______________________________________________
> opensolaris-discuss mailing list
> opensolaris-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org
-- 
Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER      | Things have changed in 
Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:Matthias-ZCXn5MHPkF0KbrqthhsPng@public.gmane.org |
the past two decades.
D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487  |
Germany      | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | Bill Gates, 1995

Matthias Pfützner <Matthias-ZCXn5MHPkF0KbrqthhsPng@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> It''s been stated already: xVM is dead in Solaris (no dom0 in
Solaris!), the
> "replacement" is OVM... Which is FREE and has a way better GUI!
Isn''t this a Linux based product?

Jörg

-- 
 EMail:joerg-3Qm2Liu6aU2sY6utFDHCwYAplN+56s2BG9Ur7JDdleE@public.gmane.org (home)
Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
       js-CFLBMwTPW48UNGrzBIF7/Q@public.gmane.org                (uni)  
       joerg.schilling-8LS2qeF34IpklNlQbfROjRvVK+yQ3ZXh@public.gmane.org (work)
Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
 URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

Du (Joerg Schilling) schreibst:
> Matthias Pfützner <Matthias-ZCXn5MHPkF0KbrqthhsPng@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 
> > It''s been stated already: xVM is dead in Solaris (no dom0 in
Solaris!), the
> > "replacement" is OVM... Which is FREE and has a way better
GUI!
> 
> Isn''t this a Linux based product?
Yes, it is... So, where''s the problem? (I know, where the problem is,
but...)

PSARC/2010/250 EOF of Solaris xVM dom0 from End of June 2010

We''ve been through this a couple times:

If you want "live-migration" you need NO LOCAL disks, therefore the
ZFS
advantages are in the net-based storage box

DTrace doesn''t add any advantage, as the xVM dtrace integration is
ASYNCHRONOUS, and doesn''t guarantee the arrival of all messages from
the
Xen-part

Which leaves COMSTAR, yes, that''s sad.

But: OVM does already provide tons of templates (preconfigured images with
whole app stacks), and, as mentioned, a way better GUI...

So, from a business point of view, for DCs, that''s the right
decision...

Which also implies, that inside Sun/Oracle no one any longer takes care of the
updating of the Xen dom0 port/part.

        Matthias
> Jörg
> 
> -- 
>  EMail:joerg-3Qm2Liu6aU2sY6utFDHCwYAplN+56s2BG9Ur7JDdleE@public.gmane.org
(home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
>        js-CFLBMwTPW48UNGrzBIF7/Q@public.gmane.org                (uni)  
>        joerg.schilling-8LS2qeF34IpklNlQbfROjRvVK+yQ3ZXh@public.gmane.org
(work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
>  URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
> 
-- 
Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER      | Things have changed in 
Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:Matthias-ZCXn5MHPkF0KbrqthhsPng@public.gmane.org |
the past two decades.
D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487  |
Germany      | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | Bill Gates, 1995

> Which also implies, that inside Sun/Oracle no one any longer takes care of
> the updating of the Xen dom0 port/part.
Which is why I said that someone needs to do the work.


Regards -- Volker
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Volker A. Brandt               Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH                   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim                     Email:
vab-PmhLj2EnD38@public.gmane.org
Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513              Schuhgröße: 46
Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt

Well I don''t think Xen is a good enough hypervisor anyways. I would
rather see
Oracle come up with something better. There are too many Xen implementations and
not enough features to differentiate them other than GUI''s. Even Red
Hat has
realized this and are pushing their KVM agenda. And sadly when people talk about
virtualization on x86, it''s always a VMware discussion with Citrix Xen
and MS
Hyper-V looked at as oddball alternatives. Red Hat, Oracle, Novell, etc
aren''t
even in the discussion.

The advantage that Oracle has with OVM on x86 and SPARC is that they have a 
whole application stack, management tools, and even appliances (Exadata, 
Exalogic) built around them. So I think it''ll become a more compelling
solution
in the long run, especially when Oracle gets the OVM for SPARC under its 
management tools. VMware isn''t a complete solution and people spend
millions on
all the stuff that goes around it before they even get to look at their 
application and automation requirements.

 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Octave J. Orgeron
Solaris Virtualization Architect and Consultant
Web: http://unixconsole.blogspot.com
E-Mail: unixconsole-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*



----- Original Message ----
From: Matthias Pfützner <Matthias-ZCXn5MHPkF0KbrqthhsPng@public.gmane.org>
To: Joerg Schilling
<Joerg.Schilling-8LS2qeF34IpklNlQbfROjRvVK+yQ3ZXh@public.gmane.org>
Cc: bderzhavets-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org;
lsc-J6uJde8TjwwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org;
xen-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org;
opensolaris-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org
Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 11:53:25 AM
Subject: Re: [osol-discuss] [xen-discuss] XEN on OpenIndiana

Du (Joerg Schilling) schreibst:
> Matthias Pfützner <Matthias-ZCXn5MHPkF0KbrqthhsPng@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> 
> > It''s been stated already: xVM is dead in Solaris (no dom0 in
Solaris!), the
> > "replacement" is OVM... Which is FREE and has a way better
GUI!
> 
> Isn''t this a Linux based product?
Yes, it is... So, where''s the problem? (I know, where the problem is,
but...)

PSARC/2010/250 EOF of Solaris xVM dom0 from End of June 2010

We''ve been through this a couple times:

If you want "live-migration" you need NO LOCAL disks, therefore the
ZFS
advantages are in the net-based storage box

DTrace doesn''t add any advantage, as the xVM dtrace integration is
ASYNCHRONOUS, and doesn''t guarantee the arrival of all messages from
the
Xen-part

Which leaves COMSTAR, yes, that''s sad.

But: OVM does already provide tons of templates (preconfigured images with
whole app stacks), and, as mentioned, a way better GUI...

So, from a business point of view, for DCs, that''s the right
decision...

Which also implies, that inside Sun/Oracle no one any longer takes care of the
updating of the Xen dom0 port/part.

        Matthias
> Jörg
> 
> -- 
>  EMail:joerg-3Qm2Liu6aU2sY6utFDHCwYAplN+56s2BG9Ur7JDdleE@public.gmane.org
(home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
>        js-CFLBMwTPW48UNGrzBIF7/Q@public.gmane.org                (uni)  
>        joerg.schilling-8LS2qeF34IpklNlQbfROjRvVK+yQ3ZXh@public.gmane.org
(work) Blog:
>http://schily.blogspot.com/
>  URL:  http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
> 
-- 
Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER      | Things have changed in 
Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:Matthias-ZCXn5MHPkF0KbrqthhsPng@public.gmane.org |
the past two decades.
D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487  |
Germany      | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | Bill Gates, 1995
_______________________________________________
opensolaris-discuss mailing list
opensolaris-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org

Octave Orgeron <unixconsole@yahoo.com> writes:
> Well I don''t think Xen is a good enough hypervisor anyways. I
would rather see
> Oracle come up with something better. There are too many Xen
implementations and
> not enough features to differentiate them other than GUI''s. Even
Red Hat has
> realized this and are pushing their KVM agenda. 
Now, I''ll be shortly much more educated on this subject, but last time
I looked, KVM simply wasn''t up to the same load as Xen.  You can
easly drop 100+ guests on a 8 core/32GiB ram box with xen, and the problem
you hit is that sharing disk sucks.  my understanding is that
kvm falls over before that. 

Anyhow, I just bought a (much smaller) competitor who does KVM, so 
I''m about to get a crash course on how it fares in production.  


And sadly when people talk about 
> virtualization on x86, it''s always a VMware discussion with Citrix
Xen and MS
> Hyper-V looked at as oddball alternatives. Red Hat, Oracle, Novell, etc
aren''t
> even in the discussion.
If you talk about /enterprise/ virtualization, sure.   If you are trying
to consolidate 5 year old servers on to newer boxes and have a nigh
unlimited budget, your needs are rather different.  But if you talk about
the hosting market, "the cloud"  etc... open-source xen is the only
game in town.   I know of one serious competitor who uses KVM, and 
they are japanese-only, so for all I know I''m mistranslating something.

ec2 uses xen, so does linode, slicehost, grockthis.net, and just about anyone
else you''d seriously consider hosting a production app on.  The second
most popular platform is OpenVZ (but really, I say that''s a different
market
and should be treated as such.) 


-- 
Luke S. Crawford
http://prgmr.com/xen/         -   Hosting for the technically adept
http://nostarch.com/xen.htm   -   We don''t assume you are stupid.

On 14/10/2010 18:24, Octave Orgeron wrote:
> Even Red Hat has
> realized this and are pushing their KVM agenda.
RH are pushing KVM because they spent $107M on Qumranet, over 2 years 
ago. This also presumably explains why Fedora has been less than 
enthusiastic about Xen.

Yes and they bought it because they knew even then that they had to 
differentiate themselves to compete with VMware. Also that the market is more 
focused on virtualization solutions than they are on OS''s. So if they
want a
piece of that action, they had to invest heavily in competing by developing Xen 
or something else. The bad part about Xen for vendors is that beyond the 
management tools, there''s no way for them to have a monopoly on the
underlining
hypervisor and that''s where the money is.

 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Octave J. Orgeron
Solaris Virtualization Architect and Consultant
Web: http://unixconsole.blogspot.com
E-Mail: unixconsole@yahoo.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*



----- Original Message ----
From: Evan Lavelle <sa212+xen@cyconix.com>
Cc: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org; xen-discuss@opensolaris.org
Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 5:56:58 AM
Subject: Re: [xen-discuss] [osol-discuss]  XEN on OpenIndiana

On 14/10/2010 18:24, Octave Orgeron wrote:
> Even Red Hat has
> realized this and are pushing their KVM agenda.
RH are pushing KVM because they spent $107M on Qumranet, over 2 years ago. This 
also presumably explains why Fedora has been less than enthusiastic about Xen.
_______________________________________________
xen-discuss mailing list
xen-discuss@opensolaris.org

Hi,

Well both Xen and VMware have scaling issues when it comes to I/O. But
that''s
really not too surprising given how poorly I/O is designed on x86 servers to 
begin with. Not to mention the use of LInux underneath doesn''t help the
situation much.

As for cloud providers, there are actually a lot of "Enterprise" grade
cloud
providers that use VMware because of the feature set, manageability, and ISV 
support.. not to mention the warm fuzzies clients get. Good examples would be 
ATT, Verizon, IBM, HP, CSC, Savvis, Terremark, etc. They all use VMware. Expect 
to see more of this considering the direction VMware is going.

Although an interesting note, Amazon is adopting Oracle VM for their Oracle PaaS
offering. So I''m sure we''ll see more of Oracle VM popping up
as Exadata and
Exalogic are used by cloud providers.



 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Octave J. Orgeron
Solaris Virtualization Architect and Consultant
Web: http://unixconsole.blogspot.com
E-Mail: unixconsole-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*



----- Original Message ----
From: Luke S Crawford <lsc-J6uJde8TjwwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
To: Octave Orgeron <unixconsole-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Matthias-ZCXn5MHPkF0KbrqthhsPng@public.gmane.org; Joerg Schilling 
<Joerg.Schilling-8LS2qeF34IpklNlQbfROjRvVK+yQ3ZXh@public.gmane.org>;
bderzhavets-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org;
xen-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org;
opensolaris-discuss-xZgeD5Kw2fzokhkdeNNY6A@public.gmane.org
Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 6:15:57 PM
Subject: Re: [osol-discuss] [xen-discuss] XEN on OpenIndiana

Octave Orgeron <unixconsole-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
writes:
> Well I don''t think Xen is a good enough hypervisor anyways. I
would rather see
> Oracle come up with something better. There are too many Xen
implementations
>and 
>
> not enough features to differentiate them other than GUI''s. Even
Red Hat has
> realized this and are pushing their KVM agenda. 
Now, I''ll be shortly much more educated on this subject, but last time
I looked, KVM simply wasn''t up to the same load as Xen.  You can
easly drop 100+ guests on a 8 core/32GiB ram box with xen, and the problem
you hit is that sharing disk sucks.  my understanding is that
kvm falls over before that. 

Anyhow, I just bought a (much smaller) competitor who does KVM, so 
I''m about to get a crash course on how it fares in production.  


And sadly when people talk about 
> virtualization on x86, it''s always a VMware discussion with Citrix
Xen and MS
> Hyper-V looked at as oddball alternatives. Red Hat, Oracle, Novell, etc
aren''t
> even in the discussion.
If you talk about /enterprise/ virtualization, sure.   If you are trying
to consolidate 5 year old servers on to newer boxes and have a nigh
unlimited budget, your needs are rather different.  But if you talk about
the hosting market, "the cloud"  etc... open-source xen is the only
game in town.   I know of one serious competitor who uses KVM, and 
they are japanese-only, so for all I know I''m mistranslating something.

ec2 uses xen, so does linode, slicehost, grockthis.net, and just about anyone
else you''d seriously consider hosting a production app on.  The second
most popular platform is OpenVZ (but really, I say that''s a different
market
and should be treated as such.) 


-- 
Luke S. Crawford
http://prgmr.com/xen/         -   Hosting for the technically adept
http://nostarch.com/xen.htm   -   We don''t assume you are stupid.

Me! Me is Very interesting!
0. What version of Xen do you use?
1. Can you pass-through usb from dom0 to any domU?
2. Are you using Zones in osol domU?
3. Is it possible to use whole zfs power to manage any domU?
4. What fs do you use with dom0?
5. Do you run Windows with PV-drivers in domU? Is it works?
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Sorry this took so long...

For dom0 I installed Debian Lenny as per this:
http://wiki.debian.org/Xen#Dom0.28host.29

Dom0 is running ext3, but that is really not relevant for the setup.

Debian boots from /dev/sda1 which is /boot (on ext2), the rest of /dev/sda is
one large partition with LVM.  On this I have a 10G logical volume for solaris. 
Unfortunately I don''t have any notes from this setup, so
you''ll have to look up the commands for this.

My disk-server is called "store", running on another 10G LVM volume
which is a clone from the solaris-installation.  (The idea is to be able to
clone the solaris volume whenever I want to set up another virtual machine)

Thus:
/dev/sda1: debian lenny boot-disk
/dev/sda2: large LVM-volume comprising:
/dev/mapper/master-root: root directory of dom0
/dev/mapper/master-swap_1: swap partition of dom0
/dev/mapper/master-solaris_111: vanilla installation of open solaris
/dev/mapper/master-store: snapshot of solaris after installation which has been
configured as a file server

I prefer the raw xm commands and the python config to virsh, and below is my
config-file for the solaris vm.

Please note the following points:
* the commented out parts show settings used for installation.  Unfortunately, I
don''t remember if I used hvm or pv for installation.
* the kernels have been copied out of the vm after installation (I guess I
installed with hvm and converted afterwards)
* the "bootpath" of the "extra" parameter is a bit magic, I
don''t understand how solaris boot-environments work with zfs snapshots.
* the most important part is the "disk" specification.  As you can
see, I export 4 disks as a whole to the vm, using the hvm-driver.  Inside
solaris, these show up as 4 devices, and I have created a zpool across these

Inside solaris, I create zfs-volumes as usual:
$ pfexec zfs create -V 10G datapool/guests/ubuntu

and export as iSCSI:
$ pfexec zfs set shareiscsi=on datapool/guests/ubuntu

I can see which volumes are shared and the iSCSI-id with:
$ pfexec iscsitadm list target

back in dom0 I can attach all iSCSI-targets from the disk-server (called
"store") with:
$ iscsiadm -m discovery -t st -p store -l

they show up in /dev/disk/by-path with the iSCSI-id as part of the file-name.

These devices can be used as regular block-devices for creating vm-s, and they
can be managed like any zfs volume from the solaris disk-server.

For my setup, I use these iSCSI devices as system disks for my vm-s, and mount
home directories from nfs.

Regarding your questions:
0. 
xen_major              : 3
xen_minor              : 2
xen_extra              : -1
xen_caps               : xen-3.0-x86_64 xen-3.0-x86_32p hvm-3.0-x86_32
hvm-3.0-x86_32p hvm-3.0-x86_64

1. don''t know, haven''t tried.  You''ll only get
emulated USB 1.1 on xen 3.x

2. no, but this would probably work (as far as I know, zones don''t use
virtualization hw)

3. i''m not exactly sure what you mean, but if you boot from nfs, and
the nfs-server runs zfs, it wouldn''t matter if the machine is virtual
or physical, to the OS it would look the same

4. ext3, but more importantly, I use LVM-volumes for the vm-s that
don''t boot off iSCSI

5. haven''t tried, I don''t have any windows licenses available



#  -*- mode: python; -*-

kernel  = "/usr/lib/xen-default/kernel/kernel.opensolaris"
ramdisk = "/usr/lib/xen-default/kernel/ramdisk.opensolaris"
extra = "/platform/i86xpv/kernel/amd64/unix -B
zfs-bootfs=rpool/ROOT/opensolaris,bootpath=/xpvd/xdf@51712:a"


#kernel  = "/usr/lib/xen-default/kernel/kernel.opensolaris-install"
#ramdisk = "/usr/lib/xen-default/kernel/ramdisk.opensolaris-install"
#extra = "/platform/i86xpv/kernel/amd64/unix -B install_media=cdrom"

builder=''linux''

#builder=''hvm''
#kernel = "/usr/lib/xen-default/boot/hvmloader"

memory = 4096

number=2
namestring=''store''

disk = [ ''phy:/dev/mapper/master-%s,xvda,w'' % namestring,
         ''phy:/dev/sdb,xvdb,w'',
         ''phy:/dev/sdc,xvdc,w'',
         ''phy:/dev/sdd,xvdd,w'',
         ''phy:/dev/sde,xvde,w''
         ]

# networks:
# 1 - master
# 2 - server/green
# 3 - dmz/client/orange
# 4 - guest/purple
# 5 - tv
# 6 - internet/red
networks = [ 2 ]

######################################################

name = "%2.2i-%s" % (number, namestring)

vif = [ ]
for x in networks:
  vif.append(''mac=00:16:3e:00:%2.2i:%2.2i,bridge=br%i'' %
(number, x, x))


device_model = ''/usr/lib/xen-default/bin/qemu-dm''
# boot on floppy (a), hard disk (c) or CD-ROM (d)
# default: hard disk, cd-rom, floppy
boot="dc"

vfb = [ ''type=vnc,vncdisplay=%i'' % number ]
#vncpasswd=''''
#stdvga=0
#serial=''pty''
#usbdevice=''tablet''

on_poweroff = ''destroy''
on_reboot   = ''restart''
on_crash    = ''destroy''
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

I am also very interested in this setup - could you update your post with your
experience running this type of system for an extended time?

Thank you, also for your detailed post!
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org