xen discuss - Dec 2008 - virtualization of uncooperative operating systems

Asking uname and psrinfo, I see

SunOS fulliautomatix 5.11 snv_101b i86pc i386 i86xpv Solaris [from
OpenSolaris 2008.11]

The physical processor has 1 virtual processor (0)
  x86 (AuthenticAMD 100F23 family 16 model 2 step 3 clock 2600 MHz)
	AMD Phenom(tm) 9950 Quad-Core Processor
[and 3 more similar]

NIC is rge0.

Video is an unrecognized ATI Radeon HD, so I can''t make it use an 8x5
aspect ratio to match my monitor.

I''m trying to consolidate machines running multiple OSs, and thought
I''d try OpenSolaris because of zfs and xen. We use zones at $JOB, so I
thought I''d also investigate brandz.

Specifically, I''m replacing a Windows XP machine, an OpenBSD machine,
and one or more Linux machines. I plan to expand by diversifying OSs
and versions, not merely to have several similar machines, so I don''t
want to be constrained to particular OSs or versions.

Using the Xen xVM stuff to install an HVM MS Windows XP seems to have
succeeded, but I have no idea whether it''s going to be okay in
practice, nor whether it''ll actually be able to drive my USB printers
when I plug them in.

The BrandZ stuff can''t cope with newer hardware since cpu family 16
isn''t recognized, and it sounds like it can''t handle recent
distributions of Linux anyway.

For OpenBSD, I created a HVM DomU, but the resulting machine can''t
drive the fake re0 presented to it, and there''s apparently no way to
change the virtual NIC. Maybe I need to recompile the qemu-dm stuff to
fix the driver?

To make up the gap I tried to install VirtualBox, but found it doesn''t
run with Xen, even though both say "xVM". (I already know that VMware
and Xen don''t coexist well on other OSs, so this is not a huge
surprise, but I still feel slightly conned.)

To show this isn''t all just a big whinge, I am impressed by zfs, and
plan to continue using it for file service.

I''m sure I''ve just made a n00b mistake, and there are ways to
get zfs,
Windows, Linux, and OpenBSD all working together. Please enlighten me
as to which directions I should persevere with, and which I should
abandon in the short term.

Plan B is to move the disks and OpenSolaris onto an older machine for
zfs, abandon Xen, and to run VMware on the machine I''m currently
trying to use so I can actually run stuff.  I''d prefer not to (have
to) do that.

Holiday greetings...

-- 
Christopher Vance

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 6:01 PM, Christopher Vance <cjsvance@gmail.com>
wrote:
> For OpenBSD, I created a HVM DomU, but the resulting machine can''t
> drive the fake re0 presented to it, and there''s apparently no way
to
> change the virtual NIC. Maybe I need to recompile the qemu-dm stuff to
> fix the driver?
Interposing a script has fixed this for me.

-- 
Christopher Vance

On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 06:01:15PM +1100, Christopher Vance
wrote:
> Asking uname and psrinfo, I see
>
> SunOS fulliautomatix 5.11 snv_101b i86pc i386 i86xpv Solaris [from
> OpenSolaris 2008.11]
>
> The physical processor has 1 virtual processor (0)
>   x86 (AuthenticAMD 100F23 family 16 model 2 step 3 clock 2600 MHz)
> 	AMD Phenom(tm) 9950 Quad-Core Processor
> [and 3 more similar]
>
> NIC is rge0.
>
> Video is an unrecognized ATI Radeon HD, so I can''t make it use an
8x5
> aspect ratio to match my monitor.
>
> I''m trying to consolidate machines running multiple OSs, and
thought
> I''d try OpenSolaris because of zfs and xen. We use zones at $JOB,
so I
> thought I''d also investigate brandz.
>
> Specifically, I''m replacing a Windows XP machine, an OpenBSD
machine,
> and one or more Linux machines. I plan to expand by diversifying OSs
> and versions, not merely to have several similar machines, so I
don''t
> want to be constrained to particular OSs or versions.
>
> Using the Xen xVM stuff to install an HVM MS Windows XP seems to have
> succeeded, but I have no idea whether it''s going to be okay in
> practice, nor whether it''ll actually be able to drive my USB
printers
> when I plug them in.
>
> The BrandZ stuff can''t cope with newer hardware since cpu family
16
> isn''t recognized, and it sounds like it can''t handle
recent
> distributions of Linux anyway.
>
> For OpenBSD, I created a HVM DomU, but the resulting machine can''t
> drive the fake re0 presented to it, and there''s apparently no way
to
> change the virtual NIC. Maybe I need to recompile the qemu-dm stuff to
> fix the driver?
>
i wouldn''t recommend trying to recompile the qemu-dm stuff. 
you''d be
better off trying a more recent version of opensolaris, or seeing if
there are any patches for the OpenBSD re0 available.  you might want
to ask about this problem on xen-discuss@opensolaris.org.

ideally, you''d be able to run a PV OpenBSD DomU, but a brief google
search seems to indicate that an official PV OpenBSD port was never
finished.  :(
> To make up the gap I tried to install VirtualBox, but found it
doesn''t
> run with Xen, even though both say "xVM". (I already know that
VMware
> and Xen don''t coexist well on other OSs, so this is not a huge
> surprise, but I still feel slightly conned.)
>
both virtualbox and the xvm hypervisor use cpu virtualization features,
so they can''t be used concurrently.

barring any bugs, either xVM or virtualbox should let you run copies off
all the operating systems your interested in.

ed

>>both virtualbox and the xvm hypervisor use cpu virtualization features,
>>so they can''t be used concurrently.

Hmm, and there are no plans to make  them compatible so that VirtualBox 
uses xVM function for virtualizing if it ''s installed?

regards

Bernd


Edward Pilatowicz wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 06:01:15PM +1100, Christopher Vance wrote:
>   
>> Asking uname and psrinfo, I see
>>
>> SunOS fulliautomatix 5.11 snv_101b i86pc i386 i86xpv Solaris [from
>> OpenSolaris 2008.11]
>>
>> The physical processor has 1 virtual processor (0)
>>   x86 (AuthenticAMD 100F23 family 16 model 2 step 3 clock 2600 MHz)
>> 	AMD Phenom(tm) 9950 Quad-Core Processor
>> [and 3 more similar]
>>
>> NIC is rge0.
>>
>> Video is an unrecognized ATI Radeon HD, so I can''t make it use
an 8x5
>> aspect ratio to match my monitor.
>>
>> I''m trying to consolidate machines running multiple OSs, and
thought
>> I''d try OpenSolaris because of zfs and xen. We use zones at
$JOB, so I
>> thought I''d also investigate brandz.
>>
>> Specifically, I''m replacing a Windows XP machine, an OpenBSD
machine,
>> and one or more Linux machines. I plan to expand by diversifying OSs
>> and versions, not merely to have several similar machines, so I
don''t
>> want to be constrained to particular OSs or versions.
>>
>> Using the Xen xVM stuff to install an HVM MS Windows XP seems to have
>> succeeded, but I have no idea whether it''s going to be okay in
>> practice, nor whether it''ll actually be able to drive my USB
printers
>> when I plug them in.
>>
>> The BrandZ stuff can''t cope with newer hardware since cpu
family 16
>> isn''t recognized, and it sounds like it can''t handle
recent
>> distributions of Linux anyway.
>>
>> For OpenBSD, I created a HVM DomU, but the resulting machine
can''t
>> drive the fake re0 presented to it, and there''s apparently no
way to
>> change the virtual NIC. Maybe I need to recompile the qemu-dm stuff to
>> fix the driver?
>>
>>     
>
> i wouldn''t recommend trying to recompile the qemu-dm stuff. 
you''d be
> better off trying a more recent version of opensolaris, or seeing if
> there are any patches for the OpenBSD re0 available.  you might want
> to ask about this problem on xen-discuss@opensolaris.org.
>
> ideally, you''d be able to run a PV OpenBSD DomU, but a brief
google
> search seems to indicate that an official PV OpenBSD port was never
> finished.  :(
>
>   
>> To make up the gap I tried to install VirtualBox, but found it
doesn''t
>> run with Xen, even though both say "xVM". (I already know
that VMware
>> and Xen don''t coexist well on other OSs, so this is not a huge
>> surprise, but I still feel slightly conned.)
>>
>>     
>
> both virtualbox and the xvm hypervisor use cpu virtualization features,
> so they can''t be used concurrently.
>
> barring any bugs, either xVM or virtualbox should let you run copies off
> all the operating systems your interested in.
>
> ed
> _______________________________________________
> brandz-discuss mailing list
> brandz-discuss@opensolaris.org
>
>   

-- 
Bernd Schemmer, Frankfurt am Main, Germany
http://home.arcor.de/bnsmb/index.html

M s temprano que tarde el mundo cambiar .
                        Fidel Castro

On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 07:13:29PM +0100, Bernd Schemmer
wrote:
>>> both virtualbox and the xvm hypervisor use cpu virtualization
features,
>>> so they can''t be used concurrently.
>
>
> Hmm, and there are no plans to make  them compatible so that VirtualBox
> uses xVM function for virtualizing if it ''s installed?
>
i don''t know.

btw, there would probably be multiple ways to do this.  (my guess is
that instead of making vm and xvm detect eachother and interroperate,
it''d be better to enhance vb/xvm to property emulate all the hardware
features that the other requires.)

ed

Bernd Schemmer wrote:
>>> both virtualbox and the xvm hypervisor use cpu virtualization
features,
>>> so they can''t be used concurrently.
> 
> 
> Hmm, and there are no plans to make  them compatible so that VirtualBox 
> uses xVM function for virtualizing if it ''s installed?
> 
  No. VirtualBox and xVM Server are different hypervisor types and 
significantly different products. For one thing, xVM Server is tightly 
integrated with the host operating system while VirtualBox is a portable 
application.

  Technically, the problem is that hardware virtualization can''t be 
shared, there can be only one ''owner'' (as Ed said).

  It might be possible to use the software virtualization mode of VBox 
on a xVM Server system, although I don''t think that''s a
supported setup.
Virtualization is difficult enough when one hypervisor controls the 
system, and having two hypervisors running at the same time is a can of 
worms that I don''t think anyone is keen on opening.

  Theoretically it *might* be possible for VirtualBox and xVM server to 
cooperate, but that''s really solving the wrong problem - there should
be
no need to run both at the same time.


          Michal

> regards
> 
> Bernd
> 
> 
> Edward Pilatowicz wrote:
>> On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 06:01:15PM +1100, Christopher Vance wrote:
>>   
>>> Asking uname and psrinfo, I see
>>>
>>> SunOS fulliautomatix 5.11 snv_101b i86pc i386 i86xpv Solaris [from
>>> OpenSolaris 2008.11]
>>>
>>> The physical processor has 1 virtual processor (0)
>>>   x86 (AuthenticAMD 100F23 family 16 model 2 step 3 clock 2600 MHz)
>>> 	AMD Phenom(tm) 9950 Quad-Core Processor
>>> [and 3 more similar]
>>>
>>> NIC is rge0.
>>>
>>> Video is an unrecognized ATI Radeon HD, so I can''t make it
use an 8x5
>>> aspect ratio to match my monitor.
>>>
>>> I''m trying to consolidate machines running multiple OSs,
and thought
>>> I''d try OpenSolaris because of zfs and xen. We use zones
at $JOB, so I
>>> thought I''d also investigate brandz.
>>>
>>> Specifically, I''m replacing a Windows XP machine, an
OpenBSD machine,
>>> and one or more Linux machines. I plan to expand by diversifying
OSs
>>> and versions, not merely to have several similar machines, so I
don''t
>>> want to be constrained to particular OSs or versions.
>>>
>>> Using the Xen xVM stuff to install an HVM MS Windows XP seems to
have
>>> succeeded, but I have no idea whether it''s going to be
okay in
>>> practice, nor whether it''ll actually be able to drive my
USB printers
>>> when I plug them in.
>>>
>>> The BrandZ stuff can''t cope with newer hardware since cpu
family 16
>>> isn''t recognized, and it sounds like it can''t
handle recent
>>> distributions of Linux anyway.
>>>
>>> For OpenBSD, I created a HVM DomU, but the resulting machine
can''t
>>> drive the fake re0 presented to it, and there''s apparently
no way to
>>> change the virtual NIC. Maybe I need to recompile the qemu-dm stuff
to
>>> fix the driver?
>>>
>>>     
>> i wouldn''t recommend trying to recompile the qemu-dm stuff. 
you''d be
>> better off trying a more recent version of opensolaris, or seeing if
>> there are any patches for the OpenBSD re0 available.  you might want
>> to ask about this problem on xen-discuss@opensolaris.org.
>>
>> ideally, you''d be able to run a PV OpenBSD DomU, but a brief
google
>> search seems to indicate that an official PV OpenBSD port was never
>> finished.  :(
>>
>>   
>>> To make up the gap I tried to install VirtualBox, but found it
doesn''t
>>> run with Xen, even though both say "xVM". (I already know
that VMware
>>> and Xen don''t coexist well on other OSs, so this is not a
huge
>>> surprise, but I still feel slightly conned.)
>>>
>>>     
>> both virtualbox and the xvm hypervisor use cpu virtualization features,
>> so they can''t be used concurrently.
>>
>> barring any bugs, either xVM or virtualbox should let you run copies
off
>> all the operating systems your interested in.
>>
>> ed
>> _______________________________________________
>> brandz-discuss mailing list
>> brandz-discuss@opensolaris.org
>>
>>   
> 
>