Nut upsuser - Oct 2023 - Spammy notification-tech diagnostic message

Thanks for your concern.

Technically, it is not about just systemd - other systems where launched
processes that have ways to interact with some OS framework (like SMF,
upstart, Windows services, docker/kubernetes, whatever) *and* such
framework offers ways for services to inform they have started and e.g.
dependencies can begin starting, with better precision than "we have forked
off an init script and assume that this instant its service is fully
ready".

One bit that worries me in your report is "I am repeatedly getting these
messages in my *syslog*" - does it mean you get them more often than once
per uptime of each daemon (upsd, upsmon, driver)? Or that you reboot so
often that the "noise" gets your eyes sore? :)

I did initially have the opposite feedback in the beginning, about not
having those notifications working and services set up for
notification-based integration getting restarted by their OS framework
because their startup allegedly timed out.

I think this sort of behaviors with OS-dependent variations was supposed to
become managed by envvars (e.g. offering a toggle to not make noise easy to
set in packaged init-scripts etc.) but it seems that for this particular
case one was not merged. Something similar was discussed about NUT daemon
banner and a few other lines emitted at startup, which some people see as
important post-mortem tool when inspecting logs or console dumps, and
others treat as noise ("unless there's an error, I want to see
nothing") -
and frankly both stances have their merits for different audiences.

Jim Klimov


On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 2:45?PM Vojt?ch Hur??k via Nut-upsuser <
nut-upsuser at alioth-lists.debian.net> wrote:
> Hello friends!
>
> With the upcoming NUT release there is one thing I would like to ask:
>
>    -
>
>    no notification tech defined, will not spam more about
>
>
> I am repeatedly getting these messages in my *syslog* more recently
> because I do not have *systemd* available to me on my distribution and
> also do not want to use it.
>
> Maybe the debug level for such messages could be raised to 1 instead, as
> they still seem a bit too spammy for something us, who don't use the
> *systemd*, already know. At least then we would have a way to suppress
> them...
>
> Vojt?ch
> _______________________________________________
> Nut-upsuser mailing list
> Nut-upsuser at alioth-lists.debian.net
> https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nut-upsuser
>
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Thanks for the reply, it's only reported once per spawned process and what
you say makes perfect sense in this light. A configuration toggle or environment
variable also seems like a good idea, but I'm sure I or we can also live
with the message being reported once per process as it currently is... looking
forward to the stable release & thanks for everything!

VH

------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, October 29th, 2023 at 16:22, Jim Klimov <jimklimov+nut at
gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for your concern.
>
> Technically, it is not about just systemd - other systems where launched
processes that have ways to interact with some OS framework (like SMF, upstart,
Windows services, docker/kubernetes, whatever) *and* such framework offers ways
for services to inform they have started and e.g. dependencies can begin
starting, with better precision than "we have forked off an init script and
assume that this instant its service is fully ready".
>
> One bit that worries me in your report is "I am repeatedly getting
these messages in my syslog" - does it mean you get them more often than
once per uptime of each daemon (upsd, upsmon, driver)? Or that you reboot so
often that the "noise" gets your eyes sore? :)
>
> I did initially have the opposite feedback in the beginning, about not
having those notifications working and services set up for notification-based
integration getting restarted by their OS framework because their startup
allegedly timed out.
>
> I think this sort of behaviors with OS-dependent variations was supposed to
become managed by envvars (e.g. offering a toggle to not make noise easy to set
in packaged init-scripts etc.) but it seems that for this particular case one
was not merged. Something similar was discussed about NUT daemon banner and a
few other lines emitted at startup, which some people see as important
post-mortem tool when inspecting logs or console dumps, and others treat as
noise ("unless there's an error, I want to see nothing") - and
frankly both stances have their merits for different audiences.
>
> Jim Klimov
>
> On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 2:45?PM Vojt?ch Hur??k via Nut-upsuser
<nut-upsuser at alioth-lists.debian.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello friends!
>>
>> With the upcoming NUT release there is one thing I would like to ask:
>>
>> -
>>
>> no notification tech defined, will not spam more about
>>
>> I am repeatedly getting these messages in my syslog more recently
because I do not have systemd available to me on my distribution and also do not
want to use it.
>>
>> Maybe the debug level for such messages could be raised to 1 instead,
as they still seem a bit too spammy for something us, who don't use the
systemd, already know. At least then we would have a way to suppress them...
>>
>> Vojt?ch
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nut-upsuser mailing list
>> Nut-upsuser at alioth-lists.debian.net
>> https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nut-upsuser
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Would this help?

https://github.com/networkupstools/nut/pull/2136

Jim

On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 5:04?PM Vojt?ch Hur??k <vojhu87 at proton.me>
wrote:
> Thanks for the reply, it's only reported once per spawned process and
what
> you say makes perfect sense in this light. A configuration toggle or
> environment variable also seems like a good idea, but I'm sure I or we
can
> also live with the message being reported once per process as it currently
> is... looking forward to the stable release & thanks for everything!
>
> VH
>
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Sunday, October 29th, 2023 at 16:22, Jim Klimov <
> jimklimov+nut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your concern.
>
> Technically, it is not about just systemd - other systems where launched
> processes that have ways to interact with some OS framework (like SMF,
> upstart, Windows services, docker/kubernetes, whatever) *and* such
> framework offers ways for services to inform they have started and e.g.
> dependencies can begin starting, with better precision than "we have
forked
> off an init script and assume that this instant its service is fully
ready".
>
> One bit that worries me in your report is "I am repeatedly getting
these
> messages in my *syslog*" - does it mean you get them more often than
once
> per uptime of each daemon (upsd, upsmon, driver)? Or that you reboot so
> often that the "noise" gets your eyes sore? :)
>
> I did initially have the opposite feedback in the beginning, about not
> having those notifications working and services set up for
> notification-based integration getting restarted by their OS framework
> because their startup allegedly timed out.
>
> I think this sort of behaviors with OS-dependent variations was supposed
> to become managed by envvars (e.g. offering a toggle to not make noise easy
> to set in packaged init-scripts etc.) but it seems that for this particular
> case one was not merged. Something similar was discussed about NUT daemon
> banner and a few other lines emitted at startup, which some people see as
> important post-mortem tool when inspecting logs or console dumps, and
> others treat as noise ("unless there's an error, I want to see
nothing") -
> and frankly both stances have their merits for different audiences.
>
> Jim Klimov
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 2:45?PM Vojt?ch Hur??k via Nut-upsuser <
> nut-upsuser at alioth-lists.debian.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello friends!
>>
>> With the upcoming NUT release there is one thing I would like to ask:
>>
>>    -
>>
>>    no notification tech defined, will not spam more about
>>
>>
>> I am repeatedly getting these messages in my *syslog* more recently
>> because I do not have *systemd* available to me on my distribution and
>> also do not want to use it.
>>
>> Maybe the debug level for such messages could be raised to 1 instead,
as
>> they still seem a bit too spammy for something us, who don't use
the
>> *systemd*, already know. At least then we would have a way to suppress
>> them...
>>
>> Vojt?ch
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nut-upsuser mailing list
>> Nut-upsuser at alioth-lists.debian.net
>> https://alioth-lists.debian.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nut-upsuser
>>
>
>
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